looking to buy a quiet air rilfe for yard use 10-20 yards

[Smaug]

momosgarage: I added a shooting video of the 953 to the review in the Reviews gate. That should give you an idea of how loud it is.

[Bullit]

Northern Lights:
I didn't have any luck with the www.omp website.  I'm probably doing something wrong.
Can you post the webpage link for the 853 that you are posting about please?  I wanna see them.
Thanks

[momosgarage]

A good affordable bet would be a Crosman 2100 Classic or Daisy 880. They will be as loud as the 953 if you pump them the minimum of 3 times, but when you go out hunting small game, you have the option of pumping them 10 times. They're easier to mount scopes on than the nicer and more powerful Benjamin pumpers. They'll only be powerful enough for up to rabbit-sized game. Is that OK?

Smaug, I read your review for the 953 a while back.  Its one of the reasons why I am asking about it now.  However you have not clarified your above statement.  Will your "three pump theory" apply to the Remington Airmaster 77 or the Daisy 22SG?  The remington seems to be the same as the 2100, but with better parts.  

I didn't see the Welhrauch HW30s air rifle in your list.

Thanks for this recomendation, as was stated by someone else earlier also.  I was not aware of this rifle, it looks good despite only being $60 cheaper than the R7.

You can actually get a HW30S with the Paul Watt's advance tune for cheaper than buying an R7 and then shipping it to him.

How do I order this from Paul?  I don't see it listed on his website.  How much is it?  Is it something you order and then wait for him to do the work?

For used check out www.omp they have used 853 for 115.00 shipped to you with new seals. Plus the triggers are broke in.

I haven't seen refurbished 853 for sale anywhere on the web.  If your price was available, I likely would have ordered it already without posting to the forum  Normally I see 853's for over $300 USD

[gby2k6]

You can actually get a HW30S with the Paul Watt's advance tune for cheaper than buying an R7 and then shipping it to him.

How do I order this from Paul?  I don't see it listed on his website.  How much is it?  Is it something you order and then wait for him to do the work?

He use to have a link to his pricing.  It was at paulwatts.com but it looks like he took it down.  Just give him a call, he's a great guy to talk with, don't email as it may take a while for him to get back to you.  Ask him about his ADV tuned HW30S.

Here's his info from his site http://www.springgunning.com/:
Phone: (901) 465-9772 10:00 AM to 7:00 PM Central Standard Time (Best way to contact me)


-GB

[dnullify]

I believe the HW30 and the R7 are the same rifle, the R7 being a rifle sourced from Weihrauch for beeman. Just different stocks (i prefer the looks of the r7 in pictures) I may be wrong.

HW30s are on sale on JM's site as well.

Frankly if you're considering nice high end german springers, i wouldn't even be looking at the multi-pump bb/pellet rifles. I have a daisy 901 and have played with an 880 and would consider them toys next to a good break barrel, not to mention they're plain annoying for punching paper. pumping something up 8-10 times every shot gets annoying very quickly.

[Snaab9-2]

My NPSS was not what I would call quiet - louder than my 2100 and less accurate.  I wouldn't call the gas piston guns "quiet".... or at least mine wasn't.

My Disco with a TKO is a little quieter than my 2100 and much more powerful.  If you really don't want muzzle brake than it would work for you, but it is a great gun and very accurate.

I agree, a 10 pump grows old for punching paper.. very old.

[gby2k6]

I believe the HW30 and the R7 are the same rifle, the R7 being a rifle sourced from Weihrauch for beeman. Just different stocks (i prefer the looks of the r7 in pictures) I may be wrong.

HW30s are on sale on JM's site as well.

Frankly if you're considering nice high end german springers, i wouldn't even be looking at the multi-pump bb/pellet rifles. I have a daisy 901 and have played with an 880 and would consider them toys next to a good break barrel, not to mention they're plain annoying for punching paper. pumping something up 8-10 times every shot gets annoying very quickly.

There are two models of the HW30, the HW30 and HW30S, only the "S" model has the rekord trigger,  But you're right, internally they are the same gun.  The sights version of the R7 use to be sold by Beeman but it looks like the non-sights with muzzle brake is the one that's readily available nowadays.  Like you, I prefer the looks of the R7 instead, but I would take PW's full shroud over the brake and sights any day.. hehe. 

-GB

-GB

[momosgarage]

My NPSS was not what I would call quiet - louder than my 2100 and less accurate.  I wouldn't call the gas piston guns "quiet".... or at least mine wasn't.

If accurate for the NPSS, this tells me a lot.  I have seen on airgun reporter and read on other forums that the NPSS is the quietest among the Benjamin Trail guns, Crosman Venom and Gamo gas-piston guns.  Plus I have a friend at work that bought a Benjamin Trail and says its not quiet at all.  This leads to what I have also read about the Stoeger x20s being quieter than all the above and is a springers; which was why I was curious about the anecdotal statments regarding people doing gas-piston conversions and making the x20s even quieter.

No one has really compared the "low-velocity" Titan, so it may also be less noisy than the above.  However the ADV tuned HW30S is looking better and better as we discuss this.  Thanks for everyones help.

I still want to hear back about the "3 pump" theory though.

[Bullit]

Quote:

Smaug, I read your review for the 953 a while back.  Its one of the reasons why I am asking about it now.  However you have not clarified your above statement.  Will your "three pump theory" apply to the Remington Airmaster 77 or the Daisy 22SG?  The remington seems to be the same as the 2100, but with better parts.
3 pumps only.  I'm curious for an answer from Smaug on this theory too...I hope he responds.

I didn't see the Welhrauch HW30s air rifle in your list.

Thanks for this recomendation, as was stated by someone else earlier also.  I was not aware of this rifle, it looks good despite only being $60 cheaper than the R7.[/color]
$60.00 will go a long way for a bunch of pellets when using Pyramid Air "buy 3, get 1 free" offer. One nice thing about a rifle in this velocity is you don't need super high priced pellets!  7-8g Domes or Targets will do.  

How do I order this from Paul?  I don't see it listed on his website.  How much is it?  Is it something you order and then wait for him to do the work?
Yes on waiting for it, and you'll most likely have to Email him for getting a specific price and shipping arrangements.  You can budget a low-ball base price of $120.00 to cover, and S/H.  Naturally, if you want to start changing out parts, it'll go higher.

For used check out www.omp they have used 853 for 115.00 shipped to you with new seals. Plus the triggers are broke in.

I haven't seen refurbished 853 for sale anywhere on the web.  If your price was available, I likely would have ordered it already without posting to the forum  Normally I see 853's for over $300 USD
[/quote]
I'm interested in this too, and hope he can post the Link.  The closest I ever got to one in that price was from our local JROTC group,,,but they were $175.00.  A new 853 from P.A. is $280.00 with free shipping.

[northern lights]

Sorry posted wrong site. Here the sight for the used 853. www.odcmp.com what it is the civilian markmanship program. They train people to shoot an then they sell the guns with new seals put in. somtimes they are out of them.

[Bullit]

Thanks for the update on the website.
According to the CMP those are not for sale to the general public.  They state only to CMP members, and to individuals or organizations for teaching purposes.      An order for 1 might raise an eyebrow or two.  I looked up the Daisy M853 USED and it stated this in the product description:
"Sales are limited to individuals and programs whose primary intention is to develop new shooters with these rifles".    I looked at the pdf order form, and it asks for your organization and contact information.

However, it may be worth emailing the address given, and ask if they would accept your order.  Who knows?
Here's the Link to the air rifles for sale.  Just click on the air rifle tab:

http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/rifles.htm

EDIT: Northern Lights,  Thanks again for the CMP website.  I have thought about an M1, (I'm ex-military),under this program before, but this kinda re-kindled my interest.  I ordered a catalog, and may join up.  For $25.00, and the discounts, it could well be worth it.  Plus it does help a good organization.  Thanks Again!!!

[northern lights]

The used air guns are for the training of new shooter you don,t need a membership card for used for the new gun at dicount prices you do.

[Smaug]

Smaug, I read your review for the 953 a while back.  Its one of the reasons why I am asking about it now.  However you have not clarified your above statement.  Will your "three pump theory" apply to the Remington Airmaster 77 or the Daisy 22SG?  The remington seems to be the same as the 2100, but with better parts. 

Yes, it would apply to the Airmaster or 22SG. My "three pump theory" is based on the manufacturer's recommendation to not shoot it with fewer than 3 pumps.

(source: http://www.crosman.com/pdf/manuals/AM77-OM2.pdf)

It appears to be the exact same gun as the 2100 Classic, but I've never seen one in the flesh. Do they have wood stocks? I don't know. But I'd bet that the internals are exactly the same.

On all the pump rifles I've experienced, 3 pumps is a good, usable velocity, usually about the same as a CO2 pistol, in the 400-450 fps range. They used to give an approximation of how many pumps gave which velocities, but they don't do it any more. If you look up the manual of the first generation Crosman 1377, for example, you'll see the velocity table. But the 2nd and 3rd generation instructions don't even hazard a guess.

[Smaug]

I just went to confirm the 3 pumps on the 22SG, but the manual doesn't seem to be on Daisy's site. I think that is their .22 cal version of the 880, right? Multi-pump pneumatic? If so, that holds true with the 3 pumps.

[grumpy]

I would have to disagree with you about the 1077 being junk. I have two and both are the funnest guns in the house.  Sure their trigger is junk, but so are most stock triggers. low 600 fps makes it very back yard friendly and these things sip co2. I would not hesitate to hunt smaller game with it

After shooting a Buddy's QB78 I have to say its a very accurate gun. It is loud but there are ways to fix that.

[AirScopes]

I guess I am missing the criteria. The ones I know are:

* Quiet
* Quiet
* Quiet
* Less than $350

Is there a power requirement? accuracy? I mean, a Red Ryder can shoot 20 yards...

Considering the first 3 items on the list above, you are going to have to sacrifice power. Your list should be trimmed to the following:

Daisy 953
Beeman R7
Beeman R9
Beeman Guardian/s550
Crosman Titan Low-velocity
Remington NPSS
Benjamin Trail
Stoeger x20s
Remington Airmaster 77 (how many pumps?)
Daisy 22SG (how many pumps?)
Cometa 220 Compact ( or )
QB78 (http://www.@#$%^.com/QB78-Chinese-Air-Rifle-p/qb78.htm)

Just the power of the R9, Stoeger and Benji Trail are going to make them project more (even suppressed). With the multi-pump guns, you are going to be making as much noise or more pumping as shooting, but the 953 (853, 753) is the better choice as a pneumatic, which is why I'd take off the multi-pumps. The gas rams are both good choices, but I do believe the Remington is the quieter of the two.

What you have left is different power sources: Pneumatic, break-barrel, piston/gas ram, and CO2. I include the R7 and Cometa 220 because you seem opposed to the Cometa... but the Cometa will be quieter because of the mderator. I would also add in something like the TF BS4 side-cocking target rifle... They are, however, apparently not imported...and if you found one it would most likely be used.

Any one of these would be a good, quiet choice.

Richard

[momosgarage]

Thanks for the info airscopes.  I was also unaware of the QB78.  It looks nice, but I just can't give into a CO2 rifle.  I am not opposed to the Cometa, it also looks nice, but you seem to be the only US dealer.  If I bought it and something goes wrong, its off to the gunsmith.  Not terrible, but likley more money spent than just calling the manufactuer.

Is there a power requirement? accuracy? I mean, a Red Ryder can shoot 20 yards...

I don't have a specific power or accuracy requirement, but I would like it to be around 400-500 fps.  The 300 fps Red Ryder type guns won't do.

I would have to disagree with you about the 1077 being junk.

I had the wood stock version as a kid, no way the new one is built to the same standard.  It would be a downgrade for me.  Plus I have read quaity control is a big issue.  Some people return the rifle 2 times before they get a good one.

[AirScopes]

There is a Cometa repair center in the US. You would send it to Adventures in airguns.

I was kidding about the ryder.

Richard

[EMrider]

I don't have a specific power or accuracy requirement, but I would like it to be around 400-500 fps

This opens the door to the Air Venturi Bronco.  It is sold via Pyramyd air.

I got one of these for my kids at same time I bought the R7.

An incredible bargain IMHO.  Also very accurate and slightly quieter than the R7.

For backyard stealth shooting, this AG is perfect.  It shoots at about 500fps with 8.4gr JSB .177 pellets.

R

[momosgarage]

For backyard stealth shooting, this AG is perfect.  It shoots at about 500fps with 8.4gr JSB .177 pellets.

Wow, I just looked at the specs and reviews on Pyramyd and it seems a good fit.  As long as it is as quiet as you say, it will be perfect for me out of the box.  Its also looks sturdy, which was another unspoken requirement I was keeping to myself