Are Mods Really Necessary

[Fate]

I got my Synrod on 14 July. It wasn't long thereafter I got my cheapo, but fantastic, $30 Chinese Chrony. I've been tuning ever since. At first I just twiddled adjustments and shot pellets... many hundreds of pellets. But after two weeks all I knew was how things worked.

About a week ago I realized I didn't have a goal to focus my tuning on. I decided to target 30 fpe, found a chart a member posted, and used it as my goal. About the same time I printed out the A Team tuning guide. Between the two I've spent this week refining my tuning work, focused on the specific goal of 30 fpe... and efficiency. Efficiency because 30 fpe is easy. Getting the most shots at that energy? Not quite as easy, but doable as I found out.

From the beginning I've been defining my tunes by whole numbers on the adjustments... HS 1,2,3..., HT 1.2.3...., VMS the same... except the prevailing advice is to max it out for power, which I'd done. The A Team's guide, however, made me refine that crude approach, and what to do when and how much to try. Quarter turns came next on some, one eighth on another. Yesterday I'd come to appreciate what that accomplished and wrote that tune and its results down. Since it had evolved during shooting a close tune I just wrote down what I'd ended up with as a start for today's tuning.

So this evening after the day's duties were done I went down and set up to see how that tune did from the beginning, because as I said it had evolved half way through yesterday's tuning and I didn't know how it would work with a full fill.

Starting at 3000 psi I shot, recorded, shot, recorded... and after thirty I stopped and calculated what had gone on. Shot # 4 was 29.9 fpe... good enough for me. Shot # 30 was 31.1 fpe... even better. Then to see how efficient it was I looked at the gauge, ONLY at 2500 psi!! Divided that by 30 and was amazed. Most of the time I've got at the lowest 20 psi per shot and mostly 22 psi per shot.... but 16.6??! There was a LOT more shots left at that level because yesterday I stopped at shot 45 with 30.7 fpe at 2100psi. I knew then it was a good one.

Knowing me I'll fiddle more but this one is definitely good enough to stop and use as-is. The gun itself is a laser and given I only have 3 mags (so far) this is good enough for anything I intend to do. No mods excepting trigger and a (special ) barrel band one. I've worn out the hammer throw "resistor" and have to check it every few shots, so I'll have to fix that. But otherwise it's just like I got it out of the box three or so weeks ago. I have a number of bookmarked and printed out aftermarket things that make up a "wish list." I'm not wishing right now. It doing everything I wanted as a gun and now it has the power and shot count to make it usable in the field.

After hundreds of hours of reading posts about tuning I've searched for, I've never come across another example of a Marauder tune on a pure stock gun that works better. It's almost always about modified guns. It seems most just jump to the conclusion no gun's going to be worthwhile without one or a number of mods... and skip the part about actually finding the potential in their guns without them. As if that's a waste of time.

This Gen2 Synrod owner argues that's not so.

[ShakySarge]

Necessary and want are two different things. Mods are not at all necessary for the Mrods, but man are they fun to get into. I think it is more of a "look what I did" satisfaction than a need to do so. After all, if it can be made better, why not make it better?!!!

[oneshot61]

What shaky sarge said.. mods are a personal choice to satisfy yourself and the goals you have with a particular air rifle. Great tune.. enjoy that Marauder!

[Fate]

Necessary and want are two different things. Mods are not at all necessary for the Mrods, but man are they fun to get into. I think it is more of a "look what I did" satisfaction than a need to do so. After all, if it can be made better, why not make it better?!!!

I understand that totally. I've spent a large part of my life making cars work better. Decades on car forums and it's always the same as you stated.

But having started that game more than fifty years ago I learned some things... like making the most of what you've got and THEN you know what you want to change.

Guns are no different. PCPs in particular, as they have tuning potential that most PBs do not. Even springers are limited. But PCPs? Fun gadgets.

[Insanity]

My gamo urban the only mod I did was cut the OEM fart mod off and put a rocker1 on it everyone who shoots it is surprised how much more nonfarty it is. I have one of Shakey's mrods and it was modded by him and it was good but has a bad part in the muzzle we both didn't know about. So now when things fall into place that green mountain barrel will be chopped and crowned along side of my .257 Brod build.

So modification really is personal preference if you are satisfied with out of the box then don't mess with it. Now if you are a gear head and want the best performance you can get then mod smartly.

[Ribbonstone]

Have some that I was pretty much perfectly happy with as they came out the box and they still are...no "all you gotta do..."things at all.
Others where provided screws were turned, which I can't count as a mod as the screws were already there.

So basically, the two above groups are "stock"...no mods as all the parts are just the same as when you got it.

Does what you want....why mess with it?

Doesn't do what you want?..most likely becasue we want them to do things there weren't designed to do.

So there are a 3rd group that were bought with intetions of making them into things there weren't....likely because we like doing that kind of thing.

[vdwb]

Marauders shoot pretty good right out of the box but all benefit greatly with the installation of a SSG/FFH device. The most effective “cheap mod” that you can do, don’t know why Crosman/Benjamin never incorporated one.

[Fate]

Marauders shoot pretty good right out of the box but all benefit greatly with the installation of a SSG/FFH device. The most effective “cheap mod” that you can do, don’t know why Crosman/Benjamin never incorporated one.

Dennis, can you explain those benefits to me? From what I've read they are to increase efficiency, i.e., shot count. But to me they are to some degree a bandaid, a replacement for any and all lack of refinement of the tuning process... no?

IOW, what kind of shot count can you get from yours with an SSG at 30 fpe? Please clarify your message.

Of all the various mods, an SSG is the most appealing to me, although I'm not fond of increasing the complexity of overall tuning that it represents. Still, I am interested. But to do it would mean sourcing another endcap to modify. I don't want to experiment on a gun that already satisfying my needs.

[Ribbonstone]

Good plan....if you want to mod a gun you are pretty happy with, then buy the spares before you mod. There are mods you just can't undo.

[Frank in Fairfield]

My .177 Gen I has it all.
All that motorhead had at the time.
Does it shoot (with me behind the trigger) any better?
Nope.
Does it shoot more?
Yep...30 shots vs 90 per fill.
Is it good to look at?
Uh,  yeah.
Was it worth it?
I suppose.

[Ribbonstone]

Definitely a #3 type  PCP (from above post)….something you wanted to make rather than buy. 

Doubt we save a dime that way...but we do end up with our particular/unique needs/desires met.

[Wayne52]

Very few of my airguns aren't modified.  I try to get powerful shots but still have a considerably long shot string at the same time where there's not a critical change of poi.  As far as regulated I tune them for power as well, I'll open ports if they need it and adjust the regulator where it's going to conserve on air as well as the hammer spring.

[Ribbonstone]

True...have that "tinkering need" with some of them.....but in this guy's post,what about the ones you left untinkered with?   What did they do that you just thought:

"Nope...not going to mess with it."

[Wayne52]

I never really tinkered with my Bluestreak at all, just normal maintenance.  I never modified my PP700SA just adjusted reg and hammer spring, same with all the DAR's.  None of my vintage Crosman's are modified except for one that's got an LDC on it.  None of my .177 pistols have been modified.

[Fate]

Very few of my airguns aren't modified.  I try to get powerful shots but still have a considerably long shot string at the same time where there's not a critical change of poi.  As far as regulated I tune them for power as well, I'll open ports if they need it and adjust the regulator where it's going to conserve on air as well as the hammer spring.

With my hammer spring set all the way in to 7... I'm getting spares. I assume its life is short. Seems a lot cheaper than mods to conserve it... like buying stickies for my bike and riding conservatively. Not. But that's just me.

With some 50 shots available at 30 fpe and speed to match of course, I also don't see the need for more, practically speaking. My Yong Heng takes care of a fill in less than a minute. So there's that to balance a regulator out and the mods to accommodate it.

But at present I'm limiting my power to the mostly JSB pellets I have on hand that I got for my D48, the heaviest being the Heavy at 18.13 gr which my gun likes best. Going forward I'd like to try some heavier pellets, which would take more tuning and I can see an SSG helping there... maybe, depending on if any are as accurate as the Heavy. It's hard to collate and separate things from the post content I've seen. But an SSG makes sense to me despite its additional tuning downside.

And as good as (I think ) I am, trigger wise, a lighter hammer than stock appears to reduce chassis vibration, understandably, and could improve lock time as well. Both factors theoretically improving overall accuracy.

So while from a basic standpoint mods are not necessary, per se, there are a couple I'm sorting from the mob that may offer me more of what I want... consistent accuracy at the power I want. I've had that in a PB. I've never had it in an airgun. This Mrod is as close as I've gotten so far. But now, knowing my history, having wrung what I can get from this machine out of the dealership, tinkering is in my future. The job now is... choosing my path forward.

 

[vdwb]

Marauders shoot pretty good right out of the box but all benefit greatly with the installation of a SSG/FFH device. The most effective “cheap mod” that you can do, don’t know why Crosman/Benjamin never incorporated one.

Dennis, can you explain those benefits to me? From what I've read they are to increase efficiency, i.e., shot count. But to me they are to some degree a bandaid, a replacement for any and all lack of refinement of the tuning process... no?

IOW, what kind of shot count can you get from yours with an SSG at 30 fpe? Please clarify your message.

Of all the various mods, an SSG is the most appealing to me, although I'm not fond of increasing the complexity of overall tuning that it represents. Still, I am interested. But to do it would mean sourcing another endcap to modify. I don't want to experiment on a gun that already satisfying my needs.

I guess the bottom line on a SSG/FFH devise on any PCP would be elimination of hammer bounce, increased efficiency YES. The also give you the ability to preload your hammer spring with NO preload on the valve pin. IMHO they are NOT a bandaid and Increase tuning refinement. I think you’re shooting a .22 but don’t know pellet weight. In my unregulated .25 I get 33 shots at 40 FPE with 25.39 JSBs at 850 FPS. Most of my Mrods/Brods are regulated.

[Fate]

Marauders shoot pretty good right out of the box but all benefit greatly with the installation of a SSG/FFH device. The most effective “cheap mod” that you can do, don’t know why Crosman/Benjamin never incorporated one.

Dennis, can you explain those benefits to me? From what I've read they are to increase efficiency, i.e., shot count. But to me they are to some degree a bandaid, a replacement for any and all lack of refinement of the tuning process... no?

IOW, what kind of shot count can you get from yours with an SSG at 30 fpe? Please clarify your message.

Of all the various mods, an SSG is the most appealing to me, although I'm not fond of increasing the complexity of overall tuning that it represents. Still, I am interested. But to do it would mean sourcing another endcap to modify. I don't want to experiment on a gun that already satisfying my needs.

I guess the bottom line on a SSG/FFH devise on any PCP would be elimination of hammer bounce, increased efficiency YES. The also give you the ability to preload your hammer spring with NO preload on the valve pin. IMHO they are NOT a bandaid and Increase tuning refinement. I think you’re shooting a .22 but don’t know pellet weight. In my unregulated .25 I get 33 shots at 40 FPE with 25.39 JSBs at 850 FPS. Most of my Mrods/Brods are regulated.

Dennis, if you would be so kind, please explain what I don't know about pellet weight and the relevancy to my inquiry.

It is true I have a .22 as it suits my overall shooting desires. So comparisons to other guns like a .25 seem out of place to me here. If I wanted a .25 I'd have one. I didn't, so I don't.

As for hammer bounce, it is my experience due to excellent information, that detailed tuning can reduce it to virtually zero without any added modification. The benefit of an SSG, to me, is covering the fine line.

[vdwb]

Marauders shoot pretty good right out of the box but all benefit greatly with the installation of a SSG/FFH device. The most effective “cheap mod” that you can do, don’t know why Crosman/Benjamin never incorporated one.

Dennis, can you explain those benefits to me? From what I've read they are to increase efficiency, i.e., shot count. But to me they are to some degree a bandaid, a replacement for any and all lack of refinement of the tuning process... no?

IOW, what kind of shot count can you get from yours with an SSG at 30 fpe? Please clarify your message.

Of all the various mods, an SSG is the most appealing to me, although I'm not fond of increasing the complexity of overall tuning that it represents. Still, I am interested. But to do it would mean sourcing another endcap to modify. I don't want to experiment on a gun that already satisfying my needs.

I guess the bottom line on a SSG/FFH devise on any PCP would be elimination of hammer bounce, increased efficiency YES. The also give you the ability to preload your hammer spring with NO preload on the valve pin. IMHO they are NOT a bandaid and Increase tuning refinement. I think you’re shooting a .22 but don’t know pellet weight. In my unregulated .25 I get 33 shots at 40 FPE with 25.39 JSBs at 850 FPS. Most of my Mrods/Brods are regulated.

Dennis, if you would be so kind, please explain what I don't know about pellet weight and the relevancy to my inquiry.

It is true I have a .22 as it suits my overall shooting desires. So comparisons to other guns like a .25 seem out of place to me here. If I wanted a .25 I'd have one. I didn't, so I don't.

As for hammer bounce, it is my experience due to excellent information, that detailed tuning can reduce it to virtually zero without any added modification. The benefit of an SSG, to me, is covering the fine line.

You asked about shot count and FPE, I don’t have a stock .22 for comparison. You can compare all stock Marauders regardless of caliber since they share the same valve, hammer, striker, hammer spring, etc. Since the ONLY thing you’re sharing in this thread is FPE and shooting a .22, I’ll put out a guess of 18.13 grain pellets @ 865-880 FPS? Heavier pellets would = slower FPS but same FPE. If you have negated hammer bounce with the Mrods HEAVY hammer and without ANY aftermarket or homemade parts I commend you but highly doubt it.

[Ribbonstone]

The anti bounce.SSG devices are easier.....don't think they have to be better,just takes less time to get the balance right and more easy to adjust to a goal energy.

The "natural method" takes a lot more time/tesgting/adjusting and ends up at whatever energy the rifle decides it likes.

[Fate]

The anti bounce.SSG devices are easier.....don't think they have to be better,just takes less time to get the balance right and more easy to adjust to a goal energy.

The "natural method" takes a lot more time/tesgting/adjusting and ends up at whatever energy the rifle decides it likes.

Precisely as I see it. Thanks for the confirmation. Exactly what I needed.

Now, your perspective on a lighter hammer?

There are other things I'd like but don't need so are somewhere down the line from here... like a lighter air tube, Boyds stock, different trigger, etc. But for right now all I'm interested in is a defined path forward once I've satisfied myself with the way things are... which are great actually.

Thanks for your learned input Ribbonstone.