AV Avenger

[Antwuan Maxx]

Tom my Liberty has been working perfect since I put the duy poppet in it, still haven't taken my Avenger back apart yet but if the frigid weather we're getting keeps up I'll be doing that soon.  I've got a S&W 78G pistol coming probably tomorrow (it was supposed to be here today) and I'll probably be doing some tinkering with that before I get back into the Avenger.

Not to hijack the thread, but did you ever get your DAR sorted out?  I wanted an Avenger to begin with, but decided to hold back and see if they were as prone to leaking as the Liberty.  Once I discovered those issues were still present, I began considering a DAR.   That is until I read about the issues you were having and several others on AGN. 

[Wayne52]

Antwuan I think I basically got a lemon, mine also has one of the tapered valve springs in it, I seen others that had their's apart and they had the straight springs in their's by the pictures that I seen   I haven't messed with it since I ordered the JB weld to try fixing it with. 

[Pb_zepplin]

just figured out the regulator gauge is a m8 thread encase anyone else wanted to know.

I did find something else interesting out when comparing my liberty to the avenger. I tuned both guns to the same setup using crossman budget pellets. I took a scope directly off a liberty zero'd for crossman pellets @ 880 fps. I moved to the avenger and set the reg at 1250psi with HS at +1.125 from full backed out resulting in average FPS at 885fps. At 30 yards I had to max the elevation on my scope which was greater than 30 MOA different than the liberty for elevation. and I was still off my 2 MOA using the reticle. The strange thing is, My brother ordered an avenger in the same shipment and he has the same problem. I was using the dovetail mount he was using the picatinny mount. Has anyone else has this issue? I am wondering if they have a manufacturing issue with the last shipment. Not sure how best to proceed.

Steve

Just wanted to report back. I took off the picatinny rails and found a flashing from the manufacturing process used to make the rails on the front rail. It wasn't much material (less than 0.01") but raised the poi almost 20moa. I forgot to take a picture before I removed it. If you found you are having issues with your scope being at the limits of its adjustments low, then i would check this out. you only need to remove 4-5 screws its pretty easy. My avenger was from the December 2020 shipment to AV.

[Ironman482]

My scope rails were not level with each other ,I removed the rails and filed the studs down at a angle and filed the bottom of the rails on one side to get them level to each other .

[Pb_zepplin]

My scope rails were not level with each other ,I removed the rails and filed the studs down at a angle and filed the bottom of the rails on one side to get them level to each other .

yep I think one of the areas the savings are going into is reduced quality control. From what I have seen the fixes are pretty simple to make. If I had paid more money for the gun i would have been upset but since its such a low cost gun its not as disappointing. I am really happy with the gun. Its dead accurate .5" groups at 50 even with cheap crossman pellets. Cant wait to get my order of NSA slugs and see what they can do at longer range with some tuning.

[crazyhorse1]

Mine was in that same shipment and it was impacting 6" low...I seen your post, but I had already checked screw tightness so I shimmed rear ring. I used a .014" thick card stock and everything came together.
The rail was down and tight...

[Lathaniel]

Hello, very late to the party. But the low POI is actually very easy to fix and somewhat counterintuitive until you think about it( much like raising a scopes
POI) It took me a while to figure it out. If you loosen the grub screw on the rear barrel shroud support,  that will raise your POI. Basically, if it's too tight, it raises the rear of the shroud in relation to the barrel stabilizer and barrel shroud stabilizer , forcing your POI down, think high to low point. Loosen it up a bit and problem solved.

[Trucker3573]

Hello, very late to the party. But the low POI is actually very easy to fix and somewhat counterintuitive until you think about it( much like raising a scopes
POI) It took me a while to figure it out. If you loosen the grub screw on the rear barrel shroud support,  that will raise your POI. Basically, if it's too tight, it raises the rear of the shroud in relation to the barrel stabilizer and barrel shroud stabilizer , forcing your POI down, think high to low point. Loosen it up a bit and problem solved.

It’s so weird I’ve watched several videos of people taking this rear grub screw out that holds the shroud back there. I have two avengers and I have meticulously looked them both over and cannot find a grub screw at the rear of the shroud on either one.

[Lathaniel]

Hello, that is indeed odd. I have uploaded a photo, with the Alan key in the grub screw to help you find it. I know some have a grub screw outside the shroud, mine also doesn't have that. But I'm sure they should all have the one I'm talking about

[Trucker3573]

Hello, that is indeed odd. I have uploaded a photo, with the Alan key in the grub screw to help you find it. I know some have a grub screw outside the shroud, mine also doesn't have that. But I'm sure they should all have the one I'm talking about

Ok that might be there. To me that is under the shroud. The shroud has to come off to expose that screw??  Anyway at least I know I’m not crazy. Lol

[Tpatner412]

Hello, very late to the party. But the low POI is actually very easy to fix and somewhat counterintuitive until you think about it( much like raising a scopes
POI) It took me a while to figure it out. If you loosen the grub screw on the rear barrel shroud support,  that will raise your POI. Basically, if it's too tight, it raises the rear of the shroud in relation to the barrel stabilizer and barrel shroud stabilizer , forcing your POI down, think high to low point. Loosen it up a bit and problem solved.

It’s so weird I’ve watched several videos of people taking this rear grub screw out that holds the shroud back there. I have two avengers and I have meticulously looked them both over and cannot find a grub screw at the rear of the shroud on either one.

There was a change to the shroud setup towards the end of last year. The shroud is now threaded on at the rear mounting ring (as shown in Lathaniel's post).  The grub screw you're talking about that holds the shroud onto the rear mounting ring is no longer there. 

[Trucker3573]

Hello, very late to the party. But the low POI is actually very easy to fix and somewhat counterintuitive until you think about it( much like raising a scopes
POI) It took me a while to figure it out. If you loosen the grub screw on the rear barrel shroud support,  that will raise your POI. Basically, if it's too tight, it raises the rear of the shroud in relation to the barrel stabilizer and barrel shroud stabilizer , forcing your POI down, think high to low point. Loosen it up a bit and problem solved.

It’s so weird I’ve watched several videos of people taking this rear grub screw out that holds the shroud back there. I have two avengers and I have meticulously looked them both over and cannot find a grub screw at the rear of the shroud on either one.

There was a change to the shroud setup towards the end of last year. The shroud is now threaded on at the rear mounting ring (as shown in Lathaniel's post).  The grub screw you're talking about that holds the shroud onto the rear mounting ring is no longer there.

Ah ha both mine must be this way. So I would just untwist the shroud after taking the barrel band off to remove it?  When do you guys expect to have the wood stocks back in supply for the avenger Tyler? Do they come with the longer screws needed?  Thanks man. 

[Tpatner412]

Correct.  If you don't see a grub screw on the outside of the rear of your shroud, then you can just twist CCW to unscrew the shroud. 

Yes, the wood stocks should be coming with the longer screws. I know some did not previously, but that should be remedied now. More should be arriving next month, heavy emphasis on the word 'should', so don't quote me on that LOL

[Trucker3573]

Correct.  If you don't see a grub screw on the outside of the rear of your shroud, then you can just twist CCW to unscrew the shroud. 

Yes, the wood stocks should be coming with the longer screws. I know some did not previously, but that should be remedied now. More should be arriving next month, heavy emphasis on the word 'should', so don't quote me on that LOL

Yeah I know how that goes in todays market. Thanks for the quick response. Have a great day and love PA YouTube videos.

[Tomygun1]

I have owned my Avenger 25cal for over a year and am very pleased with it, but at first I struggled with the poi scope adjustment as well and finally solved it with scope shims.     Am I reading this correct, you are saying that by repositioning the ‘shroud’ at the breech via the shroud mounting block will change the poi?     How can that alter the position of the bbl at the breech if the bbl is attached to the receiver?     I don’t get it….  Help..

[Trucker3573]

I have owned my Avenger 25cal for over a year and am very pleased with it, but at first I struggled with the poi scope adjustment as well and finally solved it with scope shims.     Am I reading this correct, you are saying that by repositioning the ‘shroud’ at the breech via the shroud mounting block will change the poi?     How can that alter the position of the bbl at the breech if the bbl is attached to the receiver?     I don’t get it….  Help..

On my 22 the front part of the picatiny rail was loose out of the box. Tightening that down fixed my massively low POI problem

[Tomygun1]

Thanks Trucker, my pic rail wasn't great either and in my attempts to center poi I replaced it with an aftermarket aluminum pic rail.     Still, my scope adjustments are way off center but now I can hit at 85yds but then run out of moa adjustments.     Sorry to sound ignorant but it seems I am.     If there is a way to center the bore poi on the Avenger from the breech end would you explain it again?
Thanks,
Tom

[Lathaniel]

Please forgive my rather rudimentary drawing, not to scale either. Looks like I shouldn't have passed preschool, however the concept is similar to shimming a scope, except in reverse. Haha.
1) shows a properly aligned shroud, everything is in alignment. As it should be.
2) Shows how the shroud would align, with the grub screw being too tight.
3) Shows the effect of the grub screw being to tight and the shroud, being "made" to fit.

Now the explanation. As you tighten the screw, you force the barrel lower in the rear shroud support,(or more accurately the rear barrel shroud support higher in relatuon to the barrel)now as the barrel is lower, the shroud support, becomes higher in relation to the middle barrel shroud support and the barrel band. When you make it fit, this forces the barrel to be facing in a downward angle, which is very small but perceptible in your point of impact and measurable in your shroud. Measure the space between your barrel shroud and the air tube at the back, near the breech and again near the muzzle, if it's the support, you will notice that there is a definite change in gap. Unlike a scope, which wants to be facing downward to increase your elevation, your barrel needs to be pointed up to get the same effect.
Hope this explanation helps.
As a small edit, the rear shroud support does not affect where the barrel starts, as much as where it ends. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but if you have a fixed middle point and you raise the rear, the front drops and vice versa. The barrel rear point remains constant, the barrel shroud however does not, and it is the barrel shroud and support that forces the muzzle down.

[DMR214]

Thanks latty, now it makes sense. If I ever remove my barrel to polish it, I'll try to center it as it should be. Like #1 .

[Lathaniel]

Pleasure, no need to remove the barrel, just the shroud, and even that only 5cm or less, a really painless procedure.