What caliber do you think is the most versatile?

[UnderPressure]

price of ammo is not a condition of caliber versatility, nor is the need of a pump or not.

Really? Of course it is. I and many others would not lob thousands of .30 per year. The cost really does add up, even if you cast your own. And as for the need of a pump or more capable air source? Don’t these bigger calibers require more air? While we understand the niche for some of the larger air gun calibers. It’s not why the majority of airgun shooters get into the airgun game. At some point a line is drawn and a better tool used. If I needed a thirty caliber airgun, I would deploy my .22 rimfire.

Consider that .30 round ball is just as cheap as .22 pellets and also much quieter than a .22 rimfire.

Now only if we could get it to leave barrel with backspin (like an airsoft BB, Google "Airsoft Hop-up") it would have a flat trajectory.

[Nomadic Pirate]

price of ammo is not a condition of caliber versatility, nor is the need of a pump or not.

Really? Of course it is. I and many others would not lob thousands of .30 per year. The cost really does add up, even if you cast your own. And as for the need of a pump or more capable air source? Don’t these bigger calibers require more air? While we understand the niche for some of the larger air gun calibers. It’s not why the majority of airgun shooters get into the airgun game. At some point a line is drawn and a better tool used. If I needed a thirty caliber airgun, I would deploy my .22 rimfire.

I'm afraid you just still don't get the point 

You just go of on tangents that have nothing to do with the question at hand,

....again if I take at face value just that one point that you bring up of cost of ammo, I can just say " well I shoot my .357 arrows so my cost is zero since I just reuse them "

Same thing, " I can just recycle my lead and cast my own in .30 and .357 so my cost per round will be cheaper then you .22 in the long run"

you are diverging from what is the most versatile caliber to what is the best air comsumpion all of a sudden, and you just end up busting out your .22 rimfire 

.50 just like .17 will never be the most versatile, it's a compromise, a middle ground, no other caliber can cover the spectrum like .30 or .357


Heck with my .357 I can hunt squirrels in the morning, eat them for lunch since I didn't waste any meat and then go and hunt an elephant in the afternoon 

let's see if your .22 is that versatile  LOL

[Luis Leon]

price of ammo is not a condition of caliber versatility, nor is the need of a pump or not.

Really? Of course it is. I and many others would not lob thousands of .30 per year. The cost really does add up, even if you cast your own. And as for the need of a pump or more capable air source? Don’t these bigger calibers require more air? While we understand the niche for some of the larger air gun calibers. It’s not why the majority of airgun shooters get into the airgun game. At some point a line is drawn and a better tool used. If I needed a thirty caliber airgun, I would deploy my .22 rimfire.

I'm afraid you just still don't get the point 

You just go of on tangents that have nothing to do with the question at hand,

....again if I take at face value just that one point that you bring up of cost of ammo, I can just say " well I shoot my .357 arrows so my cost is zero since I just reuse them "

Same thing, " I can just recycle my lead and cast my own in .30 and .357 so my cost per round will be cheaper then you .22 in the long run"

you are diverging from what is the most versatile caliber to what is the best air comsumpion all of a sudden, and you just end up busting out your .22 rimfire 

.50 just like .17 will never be the most versatile, it's a compromise, a middle ground, no other caliber can cover the spectrum like .30 or .357


Heck with my .357 I can hunt squirrels in the morning, eat them for lunch since I didn't waste any meat and then go and hunt an elephant in the afternoon 

let's see if your .22 is that versatile  LOL

Don’t be afraid 😟. I reload for powder burners and if you factor the value of your time? Then it’s not cheap. As for theoretically practical and practical in practice? If we’ll talking about reusing a projectile? I would break out my archery tackle then? Everything is versatile to a point... So I’m afraid it’s you who are diverging. The big bores are not practical or versatile for the majority of air gunners. Notice how you did not address the “fact” that big bores consume “big air”. And using a crapload of emojis does not strengthen your point.

[Sbak]

dang, out of popcorn. brb

[Nomadic Pirate]

I'm starting to wonder now if you understand the question,

it's a simple question ;

what caliber is the most versatile ?

it's not,...what do you prefer to shoot ? what caliber do you prefer to hunt with ?

It's an objective question not a subjective one, therefore it needs to be looked at from outside of personal preferences.

let's bring up once again the definition of Versatile;

" able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities. "

as much as I look I can't find the section that says ...."only if you keep it under a certain cost" LOL

nor....... " only up to the point when you bust out the rimfire " LOL


It's not about :

"not being practical with the majority of airgunners",........that has nothing to do with the question at hand

 

[UnderPressure]

price of ammo is not a condition of caliber versatility, nor is the need of a pump or not.

Really? Of course it is. I and many others would not lob thousands of .30 per year. The cost really does add up, even if you cast your own. And as for the need of a pump or more capable air source? Don’t these bigger calibers require more air? While we understand the niche for some of the larger air gun calibers. It’s not why the majority of airgun shooters get into the airgun game. At some point a line is drawn and a better tool used. If I needed a thirty caliber airgun, I would deploy my .22 rimfire.

I'm afraid you just still don't get the point 

You just go of on tangents that have nothing to do with the question at hand,

....again if I take at face value just that one point that you bring up of cost of ammo, I can just say " well I shoot my .357 arrows so my cost is zero since I just reuse them "

Same thing, " I can just recycle my lead and cast my own in .30 and .357 so my cost per round will be cheaper then you .22 in the long run"

you are diverging from what is the most versatile caliber to what is the best air comsumpion all of a sudden, and you just end up busting out your .22 rimfire 

.50 just like .17 will never be the most versatile, it's a compromise, a middle ground, no other caliber can cover the spectrum like .30 or .357


Heck with my .357 I can hunt squirrels in the morning, eat them for lunch since I didn't waste any meat and then go and hunt an elephant in the afternoon 

let's see if your .22 is that versatile  LOL

Don’t be afraid 😟. I reload for powder burners and if you factor the value of your time? Then it’s not cheap. As for theoretically practical and practical in practice? If we’ll talking about reusing a projectile? I would break out my archery tackle then? Everything is versatile to a point... So I’m afraid it’s you who are diverging. The big bores are not practical or versatile for the majority of air gunners. Notice how you did not address the “fact” that big bores consume “big air”. And using a crapload of emojis does not strengthen your point.

I don't think (on average) a big bore would use any more air than a small bore at the same FPE.

[UnderPressure]

price of ammo is not a condition of caliber versatility, nor is the need of a pump or not.

Really? Of course it is. I and many others would not lob thousands of .30 per year. The cost really does add up, even if you cast your own. And as for the need of a pump or more capable air source? Don’t these bigger calibers require more air? While we understand the niche for some of the larger air gun calibers. It’s not why the majority of airgun shooters get into the airgun game. At some point a line is drawn and a better tool used. If I needed a thirty caliber airgun, I would deploy my .22 rimfire.

Consider that .30 round ball is just as cheap as .22 pellets and also much quieter than a .22 rimfire.

Now only if we could get it to leave barrel with backspin (like an airsoft BB, Google "Airsoft Hop-up") it would have a flat trajectory.

Some information on Corbin round ball swaging:

http://www.corbins.com/bsk-1.htm

http://www.corbins.com/prball.htm

(Sounds like a way to make the round balls.....very round and consistent in size, but requires 2 presses.)

P.S. Here is a very good website called "Airsoft trajectory project" ---> http://mackila.com/airsoft/atp/ (Lots of interesting data, charts and graphs showing the effects of various backspins, BB weights, velocities, etc.)

http://mackila.com/airsoft/atp/03-a-01.htm

[Nomadic Pirate]

Roundballs have been used a lot in .50 .45 and .357, back in the day when ammo for airguns was scarce the Roundball was king for Big bores,

they are plenty accurate no need for any of this backspin

For a .30 I don't know who makes them but if a manufacturer would make a good one they'll be plenty accurate, Hornady .457 and .495 have been proving themselves for many years in .45 and .50 airguns

I can't remember the exact numbers but back when I was using the roundballs for my .357s I think they where on par pricewise with the good .22 pellets

[UnderPressure]

Roundballs have been used a lot in .50 .45 and .357, back in the day when ammo for airguns was scarce the Roundball was king for Big bores,

they are plenty accurate no need for any of this backspin

For a .30 I don't know who makes them but if a manufacturer would make a good one they'll be plenty accurate, Hornady .457 and .495 have been proving themselves for many years in .45 and .50 airguns

I can't remember the exact numbers but back when I was using the roundballs for my .357s I think they where on par pricewise with the good .22 pellets

Oh yeah I do realize that round ball can be very accurate. (e.g. There was a video I posted up earlier in this thread showing .358 round ball more accurate at 45 yards than slugs.)

I wrote about the size consistency because I am assuming it would be important for the backspin. (This wasn't clear in the post though).

P.S. It looks like you were probably writing your post while I was doing my edit which has the information showing the effect of varying levels of backspin on trajectory. (Notice that backspin can actually make trajectory worse if it is not sufficient......but once it hits a certain level the trajectory is very flat.)

[Nomadic Pirate]

There's no need for roundballs to be perfect since very little engages the rifling.

if you pursuing the backspin then you need to shoot out of a smooth bore, no amount of backspin will compare with the ball coming out of a rifled barrel

[Nomadic Pirate]

Just noticed that H&N makes roundballs for .30 .357 .45

Crazy pricey tho

[UnderPressure]

if you pursuing the backspin then you need to shoot out of a smooth bore, no amount of backspin will compare with the ball coming out of a rifled barrel

Yes, most airsoft guns use smoothbore.

However, there is an airsoft barrel that has traditional rifling, but the rifling is not there to impart spin to the BB. (See explanation in quote below)

"How is it physically possible to have a rifled barrel impart a spin on the BB and combine it with the Magnus effect of the hop-up? It is two totally different axes of rotation!" A1. Actually, the barrel ISN'T "rifled" in the standard sense of a real gun. Yes, the inner barrel has spiral rifling grooves in it, but the BB does NOT touch the groove. The purpose of the TWIST inner barrel is not to put a rifling spin on the BB. It is to put a "cyclone" of air around the BB, to help float it through the inner barrel and PREVENT the BB from touching the side walls of the inner barrel at all.

[Nomadic Pirate]

Yeah Airsoft and Airguns total different thing, worlds apart.

[Wayne52]

price of ammo is not a condition of caliber versatility, nor is the need of a pump or not.

Really? Of course it is. I and many others would not lob thousands of .30 per year. The cost really does add up, even if you cast your own. And as for the need of a pump or more capable air source? Don’t these bigger calibers require more air? While we understand the niche for some of the larger air gun calibers. It’s not why the majority of airgun shooters get into the airgun game. At some point a line is drawn and a better tool used. If I needed a thirty caliber airgun, I would deploy my .22 rimfire.

I'm afraid you just still don't get the point 

You just go of on tangents that have nothing to do with the question at hand,

....again if I take at face value just that one point that you bring up of cost of ammo, I can just say " well I shoot my .357 arrows so my cost is zero since I just reuse them "

Same thing, " I can just recycle my lead and cast my own in .30 and .357 so my cost per round will be cheaper then you .22 in the long run"

you are diverging from what is the most versatile caliber to what is the best air comsumpion all of a sudden, and you just end up busting out your .22 rimfire 

.50 just like .17 will never be the most versatile, it's a compromise, a middle ground, no other caliber can cover the spectrum like .30 or .357


Heck with my .357 I can hunt squirrels in the morning, eat them for lunch since I didn't waste any meat and then go and hunt an elephant in the afternoon 

let's see if your .22 is that versatile  LOL

Don’t be afraid 😟. I reload for powder burners and if you factor the value of your time? Then it’s not cheap. As for theoretically practical and practical in practice? If we’ll talking about reusing a projectile? I would break out my archery tackle then? Everything is versatile to a point... So I’m afraid it’s you who are diverging. The big bores are not practical or versatile for the majority of air gunners. Notice how you did not address the “fact” that big bores consume “big air”. And using a crapload of emojis does not strengthen your point.

Luis I doubt I'll get anything over .25 myself, some day I'd like to have a big bore however until the popularity rises which will help the prices come down I won't be buying one.    Here in Michigan you're required .35 cal or bigger and having to be a pcp are the rules here for shooting big game.  The Seneca Recluse is tempting but I wouldn't use it that much unless I started exploding squirrel heads with it.  That .25 Sentry that I've got doing 50fpe would be good enough for a close range coyote with even a heart lung shot I think.  The slugs that I shoot from it expand a lot and it would carry plenty of energy up to 50 yards I think but that would be about as far as I'd shoot one.

[AlanMcD]

Luis,

I was with you on the .22 until the arrows were brought up, and then I flipped to .35 . . . . and I have no use for .35 personally.

When we engage in these silly debates about stuff that does not matter, it is important to at least have some common basis for the discussion  .   In the case of this pointless thread (meant with all due respect, as it really does not matter as we don't have to pick one to live with) the key word is "versatile," and that boils down to the ability to do different things.  The "how well" matters to some extent but is very much secondary (and cost effectiveness and energy efficiency are very much in this category).  Probably the best way to look at it would be to lay out a simple table of all "tasks" we could list and check off the task if the caliber could do it at least reasonably well. 

I do think (in my opinion) that if we limited the projectiles to "lead" then the .22 would be at least tied with any other (for example, it can do field target but not as well as .177, where .35 effectively can't - there has to be a minimal functional limit on tasks - and neither can do formal 10m target shooting, but both could do informal 10m target shooting).  Once you add the large number of "tasks" that arrows add, the contest is pretty much over . . .

[Luis Leon]

Nomad is right I miss the point on this one... I thought it was about the most versatile caliber. Not a theoretical “do all”. Caliber, and are you really going to drive down the .30 to sub 14 ft lbs?

[anti-squirrel]

Nomad is right I miss the point on this one... I thought it was about the most versatile caliber. Not a theoretical “do all”. Caliber, and are you really going to drive down the .30 to sub 14 ft lbs?

I would in my Leshiy.

However, "Most Versatile caliber" would assume one thing and one thing only: the ability to handle the most situations.

A .30 or .35 wins, hands down.  Imagine the Nasty-Nine or Dirty-Thirty, a Leshiy tuned for ~ 40 FPE lobbing pellets at 520 FPS and utterly annihilating said squirrel's skulls.  Zero meat wasted.  Then grabbing a Texan, Rex, or similar  in .35 (or .30 for that matter) and popping big-game with arrows.  Clean heart-lung shots, no matter the size of the game, it drops and dies.  Interject slugs for coup de grace.

You guys talking about switching to powderburners or "for my needs" situations are simply being biased, which is okay, but truly misses the real point of the "most Versatile Airgun Caliber.  The answer is the one that has the capacity to hunt, plink, or be used for targets.  The simple fact both .30 and .35 are excelling at long range target competitions, clearly have a known advantage by offering slugs, bolts, and pellets, and perhaps most importantly can be tuned way down or way up (from springer-power levels up to "elk hunting") simply proves the .30 and .35 are ultimately the most versatile.  Meaning having the most versatility, meaning able to be used in the most situations be it paper, pests, or filling the freezer.


Some food for thought: my Leshiy has some of the cheapest barrel  swapping from from .177 up through .20, .22, .25, .30, and .35.  One of the most-subscribed pesting channels on YouTube has a gentleman who regularly used .30 and .35 pellets for backyard pesting by merging the Huma sub-12-FPE and high-output Huma regulators to achieve an efficient "low power" backyard friendly tune in .30 and .35.  Pellets moving ~ 40 to 45 FPE.  Given my propensity to buy airguns based on simply being the most versatile tool for the job, I think you can all understand why I still consider a choice like mine offering literally the most versatility especially since the .30 and .35 barrels extend capabilities into the Big-Bore arena.  Will I shoot bolts once I get my .30 or .35 barrels?  No idea.  But there's no doubt in my mind the .30 and .35 are simply the most versatile calibers since pellets, slugs, and bolts can be shot whether tuned way down or way up.

[nced]

Nomad is right I miss the point on this one... I thought it was about the most versatile caliber. Not a theoretical “do all”. Caliber, and are you really going to drive down the .30 to sub 14 ft lbs?

I would in my Leshiy.

However, "Most Versatile caliber" would assume one thing and one thing only: the ability to handle the most situations.

A .30 or .35 wins, hands down.  Imagine the Nasty-Nine or Dirty-Thirty, a Leshiy tuned for ~ 40 FPE lobbing pellets at 520 FPS and utterly annihilating said squirrel's skulls.  Zero meat wasted.  Then grabbing a Texan, Rex, or similar  in .35 (or .30 for that matter) and popping big-game with arrows.  Clean heart-lung shots, no matter the size of the game, it drops and dies.  Interject slugs for coup de grace.

You guys talking about switching to powderburners or "for my needs" situations are simply being biased, which is okay, but truly misses the real point of the "most Versatile Airgun Caliber.  The answer is the one that has the capacity to hunt, plink, or be used for targets.  The simple fact both .30 and .35 are excelling at long range target competitions, clearly have a known advantage by offering slugs, bolts, and pellets, and perhaps most importantly can be tuned way down or way up (from springer-power levels up to "elk hunting") simply proves the .30 and .35 are ultimately the most versatile.  Meaning having the most versatility, meaning able to be used in the most situations be it paper, pests, or filling the freezer.


Some food for thought: my Leshiy has some of the cheapest barrel  swapping from from .177 up through .20, .22, .25, .30, and .35.  One of the most-subscribed pesting channels on YouTube has a gentleman who regularly used .30 and .35 pellets for backyard pesting by merging the Huma sub-12-FPE and high-output Huma regulators to achieve an efficient "low power" backyard friendly tune in .30 and .35.  Pellets moving ~ 40 to 45 FPE.  Given my propensity to buy airguns based on simply being the most versatile tool for the job, I think you can all understand why I still consider a choice like mine offering literally the most versatility especially since the .30 and .35 barrels extend capabilities into the Big-Bore arena.  Will I shoot bolts once I get my .30 or .35 barrels?  No idea.  But there's no doubt in my mind the .30 and .35 are simply the most versatile calibers since pellets, slugs, and bolts can be shot whether tuned way down or way up.

LOL....there are some rather silly comparisons going on in this "most versatile pellet" thread! Hummmm......using the same logic a Peter Built 18 wheeler is more "versatile" for a trucker than a Ford ranger. A PeterBuilt can go almost everywhere the Ranger can but the Ranger can't haul tons of freight. Evidently the cost of fuel, weight, size, fuel consumption, registration, taxes etc. also has nothing to do with "versatility". How about a 24 pound sledge hammer can drive tacks or railroad spikes but a 20 ounce framing hammer can't "normally" be used to drive railroad spikes. That makes the 24 pound sledge hammer more "versatile" than the 20 ounce hammer using the same "logic"!

Anywhoo, the "most versatile caliber" is dependent on the intent and usage by the shooter not the size of the gun and projectile.

[avator]

Nomad is right I miss the point on this one... I thought it was about the most versatile caliber. Not a theoretical “do all”. Caliber, and are you really going to drive down the .30 to sub 14 ft lbs?

I would in my Leshiy.

However, "Most Versatile caliber" would assume one thing and one thing only: the ability to handle the most situations.

A .30 or .35 wins, hands down.  Imagine the Nasty-Nine or Dirty-Thirty, a Leshiy tuned for ~ 40 FPE lobbing pellets at 520 FPS and utterly annihilating said squirrel's skulls.  Zero meat wasted.  Then grabbing a Texan, Rex, or similar  in .35 (or .30 for that matter) and popping big-game with arrows.  Clean heart-lung shots, no matter the size of the game, it drops and dies.  Interject slugs for coup de grace.

You guys talking about switching to powderburners or "for my needs" situations are simply being biased, which is okay, but truly misses the real point of the "most Versatile Airgun Caliber.  The answer is the one that has the capacity to hunt, plink, or be used for targets.  The simple fact both .30 and .35 are excelling at long range target competitions, clearly have a known advantage by offering slugs, bolts, and pellets, and perhaps most importantly can be tuned way down or way up (from springer-power levels up to "elk hunting") simply proves the .30 and .35 are ultimately the most versatile.  Meaning having the most versatility, meaning able to be used in the most situations be it paper, pests, or filling the freezer.


Some food for thought: my Leshiy has some of the cheapest barrel  swapping from from .177 up through .20, .22, .25, .30, and .35.  One of the most-subscribed pesting channels on YouTube has a gentleman who regularly used .30 and .35 pellets for backyard pesting by merging the Huma sub-12-FPE and high-output Huma regulators to achieve an efficient "low power" backyard friendly tune in .30 and .35.  Pellets moving ~ 40 to 45 FPE.  Given my propensity to buy airguns based on simply being the most versatile tool for the job, I think you can all understand why I still consider a choice like mine offering literally the most versatility especially since the .30 and .35 barrels extend capabilities into the Big-Bore arena.  Will I shoot bolts once I get my .30 or .35 barrels?  No idea.  But there's no doubt in my mind the .30 and .35 are simply the most versatile calibers since pellets, slugs, and bolts can be shot whether tuned way down or way up.

LOL....there are some rather silly comparisons going on in this "most versatile pellet" thread! Hummmm......using the same logic a Peter Built 18 wheeler is more "versatile" for a trucker than a Ford ranger. A PeterBuilt can go almost everywhere the Ranger can but the Ranger can't haul tons of freight. Evidently the cost of fuel, weight, size, fuel consumption, registration, taxes etc. also has nothing to do with "versatility". How about a 24 pound sledge hammer can drive tacks or railroad spikes but a 20 ounce framing hammer can't "normally" be used to drive railroad spikes. That makes the 24 pound sledge hammer more "versatile" than the 20 ounce hammer using the same "logic"!

Anywhoo, the "most versatile caliber" is dependent on the intent and usage by the shooter not the size of the gun and projectile.

Exactly why I chose the .20 and exactly why I'm standing behind my choice.... 

[darkcharisma]

Yeah, the latest trend in .22 heavy pellets and bullets sure has increased the .22 spectrum by a lot,.....only thing is that there isn't that many .22 guns that are that easy to power up.

there are plenty of airguns that can go to 70-80 fpe. i modded the Liberty to shoot 78fpe with pellets and 69fpe with slugs. going much more than that greatly decreases the shot count but i can go a bit harder still. the gauntlet can do 60fpe in 22. alot of guns can reach it if you spend the time and or money. it doesnt have to be a $2000 airgun.

i do think .22 pelllets .217 and .223 slugs are the way to go. as versatility.

.30 and up for pure energy.