A successful great experiment!

[pappa]

I have just completed a somewhat long and profitable labor over one of my very favorite air rifles and want to share with anyone who may like to try this themselves.

The rifle in question is a Ruger Blackhawk that I've owned a little over 2 years now and what I have done has proven daunting but the results have been, IMHO dramatic for the rifle. With all the great rifles that I've owned, the Ruger has continually delighted me (I have practically cut 2 grey squirrels in half with it at about 30-35 yards) but it has had one glaring shortcoming that has constantly bothered me; the only facility built into it for mounting a scope was a couple of very thin slots machined into the top of the receiver which most of us are familiar with. Have always had to be darn picky about what rings to mount and have constantly had to fiddle with this.

Lucked onto a write-up about a super-strong and versatile glue (Homax Pro Welder Industrial Strength Adhesive) that was touted as being as strong as a weld with metal to metal bonding. Since I had been mentally toying with getting a clamp-on Weaver mount, I went to PyramydAir and started scouring what might be available. A 13 slot Weaver bare rail caught my eye and suddenly everything came together with the glue and the rail.

Ordered the rail (advertised as fitting a Mossberg shotgun) and got the glue (at my local Lowe's store) and started planning.

After getting everything together, decided that the Weaver rail, which I really liked, was not radially rounded enough for the receiver. Back to Lowe's and got a large wooden dowel about the size of the Ruger's receiver and some industrial strength sand paper.

Wrapped the sandpaper around the dowel and started to work re-contouring the rail. I remembered that the Ruger had started to show signs of barrel droop so I put extra pressure in the forward end of the rail while sanding it.

After getting the right radius on the bottom of the rail, I started to clean the receiver and rail cuts with 91% alcohol to get rid of anything that might hinder the glue's bonding to the receiver. I thought about sanding the blue off of the receiver but thought that if this experiment failed, I didn't want to mess up the good finish that was there. By the way, I had also thought about what to do IF this experiment failed and was convinced that I could probably strip everything off with Goo-Gone and reverse everything.

The instructions on the glue said that I had about a 10 minute window to get things in place once the glue was out of the tube. My biggest worry was that I would not get the rail properly aligned on windage so I put a lone screw from the rear sight into one of the barrel's rear screw holes and practiced aligning the center cuts in the rail with the barrel. I also got a LOT of sturdy rubber bands ready to put around the receiver and rail to hold everything tight while the glue cured.

Take a deep breath and away we go! Daubed the glue to the bottom of the rail, centered the rail on the receiver and pushed down to get the glue well spread on both parts and pulled it apart for a look. Everything looks OK so put the rail back onto the receiver, pushed down hard and pulled the rail back until it butted against the rear receiver cap. Did a quick but fastidious alignment looking down the center cuts in the rail and over the barrel. Everything looking OK, start slipping rubber bands over the barrel and down into the slots between each set of rail lugs until each rail slot is used. Keep looking down the rail and over the barrel to assure correct windage alignment. Start adjusting tension on the rubber bands to assure that they aren't pulling to one side or the other. Everything looking great but, boy, am I nervous!

Checked rail alignment every 15-20 minutes for the first hour and then off to bed.

First thing the next morning, check rail alignment with the barrel. Everything OK! Carefully took of all rubber bands. Rechecked alignment. OK!

I had plumped a large drop of the glue on a small piece of Masonite when I started all of this and discovered that the glue didn't cure like an epoxy. It had a very strong solvent in it and it took quite awhile to dry, especially being trapped between the close fitting parts that I had just put together. The instructions stated that total curing time was 24 hours but I was convinced that better safe than sorry was the best bet here, and I was right. A few little squirts of extra glue seeped out around the rail and they were proving to be rather slow in hardening. I decided on a minimum of 4 days before any further action.

At the end of 4 days, I discovered that the little squirts of bleed-out had dried so completely that they actually disappeared. My feeble brain told me that since this was NOT welding, it might be advantageous to run an extra exterior bead of glue down each side if the rail to receiver joint to give it a little extra grasp, so I did and waited another 4 days. After 4 days, that extra exterior bead had practically disappeared, so I did it again. 4 days later looked OK but I WAS getting a little messy, so I stopped adding glue. I decided to give this thing a real chance to cure properly and gave up on it for a week.

Looking good!!! Time to put it all together and try things out. Put receiver back into the stock, get out nice new scope (Leapers 3-9X40AO) and Weaver rings, put it all together and try it out. Set target at 30 feet for first try-out. Set both dials on scope to neutral. Using tripod with padded V notch on top, squeezed of a first round.

Unbelievable!!! Windage was 1" to the right and elevation was 4" low. Cranked both dials and another shot. Windage dead on, 1" low. Cranked elevation and another shot. Dead ON!!! 3 more shots cut a center clover leaf. My God, how happy I am!

I have worked the heck out of this rifle now for 2 days. It is like taking an old date to a fancy ball with a brand new dress on. The little Ruger is a happy girl and she is beautiful. This has been one of the most rewarding projects of my entire life.

This new glue is extremely versatile and appears to be as strong as the reviews suggested. If you want to do this highly rewarding project, I highly recommend it, but be aware that it is highly labor and nerve intensive. Would I do it again? Heck YES. But right now, I'm taking my little Ruger out for a shot or 2 at some squirrels.

[amb5500c]

Its great when things work out. I hope it stays for good. Have fun.
Richard

[gene_sc]

Pictures sure would be nice...

[pappa]

Pictures sure would be nice...

I'll try to find my camera. That part is all new to me but I'll try.

[lloyd-ss]

Great write up and success story.  I've seen that stuff at Lowes and thought, "nah, single component adhesives can't work on metal."  Guess I was wrong and I might have to give it a try.
The idea of a Weaver rail on a springer is great... so much better than the usual dovetails. 
You just eyeballed all the alignments?  Are you good, or lucky?   
Lloyd

[Toolmaker]

 Sounds like you had great success! Thanks for sharing and please let us know how it holds up long-term.

[lizzie]

Really cool info, and I too would love to see pix.

[shadowr1]

Awesome writeup. I'll definitely get some of that stuff for the next time I need to bond metal.  JB weld isn't very good , at lest not anything I've tried it on.
I'm glad to see it worked, believe me when I say, I know what it's like to have things not work out.

Pics!!!!!!!!!!

[kcatx]

In theory JB Weld should be great, given people have used it on engines, etc.  I tried to use JB Weld to stop the back of the scope rail from moving on the AK-47 look alike B3 ( http://www.airgundepot.com/bam-b3.html ).   After several shots the recoil would break the JB. 

[aack73]

always good when a plan comes together.

[pappa]

There have been requests for pictures of this project and I now have some but for the life of me, I cannot find any instruction on how to post them. I have seen regulations and whys and wherefores but NO HOW-TO instructions. I am not stupid or dumb, at least I have never been accused of such, but I have scanned and done searches up the ying-yang on this site for such instructions or procedures and CANNOT find any.

Can ANYONE explain this to me in simple terms without any legalese rhetoric?

Thanks to anyone for any help.

[Toolmaker]

 Here are some tips on posting pictures:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,3523.0.html

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,232.0.html

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,1157.0.html

[john]

Thanks for that great write up, pappa! Going to have to try this glue (instead of the JBWeld used so far) for washers under my forestock bolts which have crushed the wood over time and for washers under the stock link pin in the rear to raise the action up a little out of the wood. Its my crude imitation of pillar bedding.

[pappa]

John and others interested:

My project is holding up tremendously well and I already consider it a long range success. Things I have learned about this glue that is useful to know is:

1. It is in no way rigidly brittle after it completely cures. I believe that this is why shock and recoil does not bother it. Although it holds on tenaciously to whatever it is applied after it cures, there is still a plasticity to it. This does not mean that it is awkwardly flexible or would deform over time, it remains stable; but if you prod it with your fingernail, you will fell the plasticity on the surface. One thing that makes me trust this glue is that I am consistently making 5 shot cloverleaf holes in a target at 40 yards which prior to this, the Ruger was not capable of.

2. I don't believe it would be good as washer material where strong pressure or compression is required. It would be good for putting under a washer  but, I think, to apply a screw or bolt head to it without a metal washer in between would be a mistake. In my opinion, it would either eventually, under stress, glue itself to the screw or start deforming due to lack of resistance to the extreme pressure a screw or bolt head would subject to it. I could be wrong about this point since I have never attempted to use it as you suggest. This is just my opinion based upon current experience in handling the glue.

On point 2, I can offer this experience: I have used Uncle Mike's sling mounts on 4 of my AR barrels. A couple of these have not been of the right size to match the Uncle Mike tube clamps. In these cases, where the clamp is a few thousands of an inch too large, I have layered this glue to the inside of the clamp surface to build it up; much like shimming only more permanently. After proper curing, these clamps have securely gripped the barrels and have proven to be stable for 3 weeks so far. They hold tight and don't slip around on the barrel at all.

This is the greatest, most versatile glue I have ever used and I am smitten with it's usefulness. I strongly suggest for anyone who has an interest, get a tube of it and play around with it (it's cheap enough) to find its limitations (which I am still doing). Just remember, the recommended 24 hour cure time is only useful if it is applied sparingly and in an open atmosphere where the solvent can cure out rapidly.  One of the reasons I believe my project was as successful as it was is, I gave each application a looooong curing time.

Have fun!

[pappa]

Here are some tips on posting pictures:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,3523.0.html

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,232.0.html

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,1157.0.html

Thanks Matt!

[pappa]

OK, Here are a few pics of the Ruger with it's new Weaver scope rail installed. No, the scope is not touching the receiver, the pics were taken from a low angle and it appears so. The last pic is just to show off the factory front sight that I actually cut the sight off of the top and radiused that area. Makes a real neat and compact barrel break.

A short note about why I took all this effort over such a relatively cheap rifle; I believe that I was blessed when I received this gun. It apparently had everything going for it when made and came out almost perfect. It has always had a tremendous amount of power and it is as reliable as it can get. It has been going and going and shows NO sign of letting up. It is a dream to shoot and has dispatched more squirrels (and a full grown possum) at various distances than I can count. If I had to take a choice of what I own, this would be it.

Thank God! I think I finally learned to post pics!!!

[pappa]

This is a follow-up for some of you that requested to know how this project is holding up.  It has been 6 months now and everything beats my expectations. Nothing is coming loose and the scope is holding it's zero perfectly. Something I have been sporadically doing to test the continued strength of the bond is to occasionally carry the rifle using the scope as a handle and this does not appear to phase the bonding in the least. I consider this project a complete success.

I am, however, working on a better Weaver rail design that would improve this project considerably. Will post again if that project gets off of the ground.

[lloyd-ss]

Pappa,
Thanks for the update on  Homax Pro Welder Industrial Strength Adhesive  and I am glad to hear it is holding up so well.  For a one-part adhesive bonding metal to metal, I am impressed. 
I use 5 minute epoxy (Devcon or Loctite, from Lowes, too) a lot because it is strong and cures fast.  But I have never done a durability test and I am now curious how if would compare to what you used.

Thanks for letting us know how it held up.
Lloyd

[uncle paulie]

Nice work pappa! You sure do have some extraordinary patience, that waiting would drive me absolutely nuts!

pv

[john]

In SoCA it's called Professional Welder, All Purpose, Interior/Exterior, Waterproof and, yeah Pappa i didn't have any luck with it in my application (metal washer to stock wood) on first try. Went back to the instant gratification of cyanoacrylate which also can be short lived. Tend to fall out when stripping the gun. Just not much surface area for adhesion with lots of stress as you mentioned. But as the washers have pressed further into the wood, they have stayed in place longer. I plan to try Gorilla Glue next...but anyone using this be warned that, like cyano, it needs moisture to cure, expands during several hour cure time oozing out of cracks, etc. so little bit goes a long way.