Seneca Aspen and alike rifles

[BackStop]

I can get 52 fpe out of my Liberty .22 I think with one of Duy's DC valves and the receiver drilled out to .217 it should be no problem. It has a HS adj already and the barrel can be opened up to .200 or so. The biggest problem is to change out the poppet valve the air cylinder is precharged to 1800 psi and it takes a special probe to repressurise it. I would see if Duy can install it for ya as he's taken one apart and knows how to work on it. My Aspen .22 gets 38 fpe with the HS adj turned in to 1/2 turn out from max and the pressure up at 3600 psi. I'm probably going to do all of the mods I did on the Liberty to my Aspen later this year when it's out of warranty. Don't need a hot rod .25 as I already have a Sumatra that will give me 93 fpe stock.

Robert, do you get your max velocity at 3600psi or does it come at a lower pressure?

Just asking because my .177 Freedoms always shoot at lower velocity at 3600psi, even with the HS turned in all the way.

The sweet spot seems to be at or below 3000psi.

Thanks!

Kerry

P.S.

My Freedoms are stock and not modified.

[Vampp]

Robert , on your Aspen .25 , can you get to 45 FPE just by turning the hammer spring? Or do you actually have to make the mods to get to that velocity?
The HAM tuning i posted before seems promising, a 5-10% increase seems possible , but then again my experience is youtube and GTA.
The graph is for .22 , normally the velocity % should increase on the .25 or then again that is what logic says. I'm just not sure it will increase from 38 to 45 FPE , especially with 31 gr slugs. There may be lower slugs out there but they are out of my reach.

I'm hoping to get about 5 good shots at 45 FPE. I will mainly charge it after each pump , but 5 shots to be there in case i need them is the best i can ask for from that small cylinder.
At this specs ( from my point of view ) it will look like the ultimate survival rifle .

Also , just out of curiosity , what riffle would require more maintenance , and is more likely to hold a lifetime, the Aspen or the Fx Independence / Bullpup ?

[Madd Hatter]

I can get 52 fpe out of my Liberty .22 I think with one of Duy's DC valves and the receiver drilled out to .217 it should be no problem. It has a HS adj already and the barrel can be opened up to .200 or so. The biggest problem is to change out the poppet valve the air cylinder is precharged to 1800 psi and it takes a special probe to repressurise it. I would see if Duy can install it for ya as he's taken one apart and knows how to work on it. My Aspen .22 gets 38 fpe with the HS adj turned in to 1/2 turn out from max and the pressure up at 3600 psi. I'm probably going to do all of the mods I did on the Liberty to my Aspen later this year when it's out of warranty. Don't need a hot rod .25 as I already have a Sumatra that will give me 93 fpe stock.

Robert, do you get your max velocity at 3600psi or does it come at a lower pressure?

Just asking because my .177 Freedoms always shoot at lower velocity at 3600psi, even with the HS turned in all the way.

The sweet spot seems to be at or below 3000psi.

Thanks!

Kerry

P.S.

My Freedoms are stock and not modified.

My Aspen .22 is normally shoot around the 3000 psi mark. I wanted to see what she was capable so turned the HS adj all of the way in then back it off 1/2 turn to be able to shoot at 3600 psi. Recalculated the energy and found it peaked at 36.6 not 38.

[BackStop]

I can get 52 fpe out of my Liberty .22 I think with one of Duy's DC valves and the receiver drilled out to .217 it should be no problem. It has a HS adj already and the barrel can be opened up to .200 or so. The biggest problem is to change out the poppet valve the air cylinder is precharged to 1800 psi and it takes a special probe to repressurise it. I would see if Duy can install it for ya as he's taken one apart and knows how to work on it. My Aspen .22 gets 38 fpe with the HS adj turned in to 1/2 turn out from max and the pressure up at 3600 psi. I'm probably going to do all of the mods I did on the Liberty to my Aspen later this year when it's out of warranty. Don't need a hot rod .25 as I already have a Sumatra that will give me 93 fpe stock.

Robert, do you get your max velocity at 3600psi or does it come at a lower pressure?

Just asking because my .177 Freedoms always shoot at lower velocity at 3600psi, even with the HS turned in all the way.

The sweet spot seems to be at or below 3000psi.

Thanks!

Kerry

P.S.

My Freedoms are stock and not modified.

My Aspen .22 is normally shoot around the 3000 psi mark. I wanted to see what she was capable so turned the HS adj all of the way in then back it off 1/2 turn to be able to shoot at 3600 psi. Recalculated the energy and found it peaked at 36.6 not 38.

Seems it would take a stronger hammer spring to utilize 3600psi for max power.   

[Vampp]

My Freedoms are stock and not modified.
[/quote]
My Aspen .22 is normally shoot around the 3000 psi mark. I wanted to see what she was capable so turned the HS adj all of the way in then back it off 1/2 turn to be able to shoot at 3600 psi. Recalculated the energy and found it peaked at 36.6 not 38.
[/quote]


Sorry for the long break I am back.

Robert,

Well yeah but your version is the .22 , that it supposed to be at 30 FPE you got it way more than that. Grats for that.
The .25 version I want is stock 38 FPE.

So in your chart there , you have it to max and half turn out from maximum tension?

I saw a video of someone suggesting to change the Hammer Spring to a more powerful one because that is the weak item from that combo.

Considering I never had a PCP , i'm about to get it and I am already talking about tuning it i'm going to ask a noob question.
Is the hammer spring separate from the hammer? I just actually have to change the spring or a entire element from there?

But then again all I want is to shoot 825-850 FPS with the H&N .25 Slugs and for it to be acurate.
And that is around 45-46 FPE.
100 FPE always sounds better but unfortunately we are talking about a small reservoir , and I would like 4-5 shots.
I saw that new FX Power Plenum ... 150% more shots with it , but I imagine it can't be done on the aspen.

Also by changing spring (with a more powerful one) , does it give you more power or more stable shots / velocity? I'm still trying to get the hang of this.
I'm asking this because you mentioned that it will shoot right from 3600 PSI.


Thanks.

[Madd Hatter]

Remember, if you change to HS IMO you will be voiding your warranty and that's not a good thing if you don't know much about PCP's. Also IMO if you shoot the .25 Aspen at 3600 psi with the HS 1/2 turn out from max I feel you will get your target of 45 to 46 FPE but that will be with the first shot and your energies will lower after the first shot for each shot there after. That's why you should pump it up with 5 or 6 pumps after each shot not only to keep your power level but also to be easier on the pump. Lots of pumps create lots of heat and heat will kill the Orings in the pump. What are you going to use the rifle for? 

[Vampp]

Remember, if you change to HS IMO you will be voiding your warranty and that's not a good thing if you don't know much about PCP's. Also IMO if you shoot the .25 Aspen at 3600 psi with the HS 1/2 turn out from max I feel you will get your target of 45 to 46 FPE but that will be with the first shot and your energies will lower after the first shot for each shot there after. That's why you should pump it up with 5 or 6 pumps after each shot not only to keep your power level but also to be easier on the pump. Lots of pumps create lots of heat and heat will kill the Orings in the pump. What are you going to use the rifle for?

The warranty is 0 for me because once it get's in my country unless I sell it or destroy it it can't leave my possession or my metal locker.
1 shot at 45 FPE then reload is mainly what I need. But In case I need to fire 2-3 will it stay consistent?
I need the extra FPE for the 31GR H&N slugs , the only ones I can buy here.
So the spring is not just a simple spring but a assembly of parts?
By changing the spring do I get more shots because I don't need to tune it so high up?

Yes I've read almost everywhere that a lot of people super fast charged the pump and blew up the O-rings.
I'm going to get 100 of those and keep them sealed.
But I've also read that after each 100 shots or when you feel it stiff , to put 5-6 drops of synthetic oil. Is this correct?

I will use it for medium game / small game / plinking .
But the FPE I want it for slugs ( long range ). So if get the slug to 825 FPS It could work at 110 yards.

[Vampp]

By the way , i saw the new Air Venturi Avenger PCP.
It goes up to 4351 PSI , 300 bar.

Does anyone think it's going to be the next step for the ASPEN as well ?
Now i'm thinking that maybe i should wait a little.

[Madd Hatter]

The Avenger just incorporates the modds a lot of Liberty owners have done to their rifles. The Aspen IMHO really can get much better unless they make a more reliable poppet. It has the HS adj already and there isn't a regulator. If AV did open up the TP it would make more power but will take more pumping to get back up to pressure.

The first time you notice the pumping becoming harder lube that pump right now! lol

[Vampp]

So you are saying that it can be modded to 300bar?
Ipotetical how many more constant shots do you think it would get?

I saw what FX did with the power plenum.
Basically more reliable shots , from 30 shots to 79 shots on .30 caliber. That is wow but also the price is wow.
Concept is very strange to me as you have the 500 cc tube at 300 bar , yet the plenum works at 250 bar.

Tbh the hustle for me to import a rifle is huge , i want a good one and i don't really want to see a much better model in 3 months after the purchase.
 
By any chance someone has shot slugs with it? Is the rifling good for slugs? On the .25 model.
This is my last concern about the rifle.

[BackStop]

For me, the Avenger would be the perfect PCP... IF it still had the power level switch like the Aspen, Freedom and Liberty.

I know there are folks who are looking ONLY for power.   I am not one of them.

I like being able, at the flip of a switch/knob, to change from ~12fpe to ~20+fpe.   That makes the AG dual purpose IMHO.

If I have to change the HS or regulator settings to achieve this, then it is a one purpose AG.

As I have said before, I shoot my Freedoms on the low power setting MOST of the time (~97-99%).

There is the rare occasion when I NEED ~20+fpe and it is really nice to just flip a switch/knob and get it.

To each their own, but the Avenger will probably not be owned by me because of this lack.

Kerry

[Madd Hatter]

So you are saying that it can be modded to 300bar?
Ipotetical how many more constant shots do you think it would get?

I saw what FX did with the power plenum.
Basically more reliable shots , from 30 shots to 79 shots on .30 caliber. That is wow but also the price is wow.
Concept is very strange to me as you have the 500 cc tube at 300 bar , yet the plenum works at 250 bar.

Tbh the hustle for me to import a rifle is huge , i want a good one and i don't really want to see a much better model in 3 months after the purchase.
 
By any chance someone has shot slugs with it? Is the rifling good for slugs? On the .25 model.
This is my last concern about the rifle.

It should've read "it can't get much better" Never shot the aspen .25 so can't say for sure but the .22 Liberty which has the same barrel as the aspen/freedom shoots slugs very well.

[Vampp]

Backstop you are right , the power knob will save me some pumping and oil. And lets face it , 70% of time i will use it for plinking so yeah ... long live the knob.

Will switching the power change the POI very much at 25-30 yards?

Robert , yes for me this looks like the perfect rifle also. So it seems like i'm going to purchase it.

One question remains , i am thinking that i wish the .22 and .25 one. They must be aquiree separatelly or the barrel on them can be swaped? Case where i can buy 1 rifle and 2 barrels.
Maybe i would even go for all calibers .

Thanks.

[BackStop]

Backstop you are right , the power knob will save me some pumping and oil. And lets face it , 70% of time i will use it for plinking so yeah ... long live the knob.

Will switching the power change the POI very much at 25-30 yards?

Robert , yes for me this looks like the perfect rifle also. So it seems like i'm going to purchase it.

One question remains , i am thinking that i wish the .22 and .25 one. They must be aquiree separatelly or the barrel on them can be swaped? Case where i can buy 1 rifle and 2 barrels.
Maybe i would even go for all calibers .

Thanks.

I was wondering that myself as I had not tested it in a long while.   At 25 yards, the POI was essentially the same.   However, I was not shooting at a paper target, so the actual POI, shifted or not is debatable.

Suffice to say that I could hit a golf ball at 25 yards on either low or high power and even when I was switching from one to the other on each shot.   YMMV

[Vampp]

Thanks again for that info , seems very good because my main plinking is at 25 yards. Will save me some muscle. Unless i'm using paper to set the scope i shoot 0.33L soda cans or 0.5L beer cans so it should be ok.

You have the .22 version right?

By any chance you know if the barrel is swapable? Or the other barells work with different transfer ports so it would be impossible.
The .22 seems more versatile but i have a .22 rifle Gamo Swarm Magnum and i get around 28-29 fpe with JSB's and Gamo Pro Hunter , Gamo Rocket. There is a pretty big recoil on it tough even tough i tuned the trigger and i'm looking for a moderator on it because it's very loud.

Thank you.

[BackStop]

Thanks again for that info , seems very good because my main plinking is at 25 yards. Will save me some muscle. Unless i'm using paper to set the scope i shoot 0.33L soda cans or 0.5L beer cans so it should be ok.

You have the .22 version right?

By any chance you know if the barrel is swapable? Or the other barells work with different transfer ports so it would be impossible.
The .22 seems more versatile but i have a .22 rifle Gamo Swarm Magnum and i get around 28-29 fpe with JSB's and Gamo Pro Hunter , Gamo Rocket. There is a pretty big recoil on it tough even tough i tuned the trigger and i'm looking for a moderator on it because it's very loud.

Thank you.

Assuming you were talking to me???


I have a .22 Freedom, but it is not in service at this time.

AFAIK, the barrels are swap-able, but I think there is more to it than just swapping the barrels.   I don't do such mods, so I can't say for sure.

The Freedom has no recoil that I can sense.   It is a PCP.   Springers/NP AGs, especially magnum varieties will always have recoil in both directions.

So, I really like PCP AGs.   It removes several variables and makes an accurate shot much easier.   I am all for easier accuracy.  (smile)

[Vampp]

 Assuming you were talking to me???


I have a .22 Freedom, but it is not in service at this time.

AFAIK, the barrels are swap-able, but I think there is more to it than just swapping the barrels.   I don't do such mods, so I can't say for sure.

The Freedom has no recoil that I can sense.   It is a PCP.   Springers/NP AGs, especially magnum varieties will always have recoil in both directions.

So, I really like PCP AGs.   It removes several variables and makes an accurate shot much easier.   I am all for easier accuracy.  (smile)
[/quote]



Yes indeed it was a reply for you .

Yes the reasons that i want to buy the aspen are : Built in pump , Accuracy , 2 sets of power , ease of use , low maintenance ( some oil and a couple of O'rings from time to time , or at least this is what i understood ).
As for the springers the bad part is that the piston eventually wears of or the spring gets loose. Either way you have to change the piston / spring and orings to it so ... yeah .

This thing promises everything compared to my springer so i would like to replace my springer with a .22 Aspen.
But i want the .25 aspen as i do not have a .25 rifle and the higher FPE will help in hunting.
So you know that on some rifles you can just unscrew the barrel and exchange it for a different bore or a barrel with a different threaded barrel. I am just asking of it's possible to buy the .25 and a separate .22 barrel, and just swap them out depending on what i want to do with it that day and for pellet / slugs availability .

[BackStop]

Assuming you were talking to me???


I have a .22 Freedom, but it is not in service at this time.

AFAIK, the barrels are swap-able, but I think there is more to it than just swapping the barrels.   I don't do such mods, so I can't say for sure.

The Freedom has no recoil that I can sense.   It is a PCP.   Springers/NP AGs, especially magnum varieties will always have recoil in both directions.

So, I really like PCP AGs.   It removes several variables and makes an accurate shot much easier.   I am all for easier accuracy.  (smile)

Yes indeed it was a reply for you .

Yes the reasons that i want to buy the aspen are : Built in pump , Accuracy , 2 sets of power , ease of use , low maintenance ( some oil and a couple of O'rings from time to time , or at least this is what i understood ).
As for the springers the bad part is that the piston eventually wears of or the spring gets loose. Either way you have to change the piston / spring and orings to it so ... yeah .

This thing promises everything compared to my springer so i would like to replace my springer with a .22 Aspen.
But i want the .25 aspen as i do not have a .25 rifle and the higher FPE will help in hunting.
So you know that on some rifles you can just unscrew the barrel and exchange it for a different bore or a barrel with a different threaded barrel. I am just asking of it's possible to buy the .25 and a separate .22 barrel, and just swap them out depending on what i want to do with it that day and for pellet / slugs availability .

What I meant was that the barrels are easily swapped, but to change calibers will require more than a simple barrel change.   Hammer spring, etc.

I have not and don't plan on doing such changes, so I can guide you.   All I was trying to tell you is that there is more to it than a simple barrel swap.

Kerry

[Madd Hatter]

Assuming you were talking to me???


I have a .22 Freedom, but it is not in service at this time.

AFAIK, the barrels are swap-able, but I think there is more to it than just swapping the barrels.   I don't do such mods, so I can't say for sure.

The Freedom has no recoil that I can sense.   It is a PCP.   Springers/NP AGs, especially magnum varieties will always have recoil in both directions.

So, I really like PCP AGs.   It removes several variables and makes an accurate shot much easier.   I am all for easier accuracy.  (smile)

Yes indeed it was a reply for you .

Yes the reasons that i want to buy the aspen are : Built in pump , Accuracy , 2 sets of power , ease of use , low maintenance ( some oil and a couple of O'rings from time to time , or at least this is what i understood ).
As for the springers the bad part is that the piston eventually wears of or the spring gets loose. Either way you have to change the piston / spring and orings to it so ... yeah .

This thing promises everything compared to my springer so i would like to replace my springer with a .22 Aspen.
But i want the .25 aspen as i do not have a .25 rifle and the higher FPE will help in hunting.
So you know that on some rifles you can just unscrew the barrel and exchange it for a different bore or a barrel with a different threaded barrel. I am just asking of it's possible to buy the .25 and a separate .22 barrel, and just swap them out depending on what i want to do with it that day and for pellet / slugs availability .


[/quote]
I believe all it would take is to change the pellet probe and barrel if you could get the stock parts. Of course you'd need the mag that fit what ever cal you want but those are available.  The other parts not so much. I guess you could get a parts gun from ATI and use the barrel and probe from that. I'm sure you could sell off the other parts of the rifle and make some of your money back.

[Vampp]

oh i see .

well in this case it's just better to buy one of each caliber.

I will probably buy the .25 and go for the .22 once i've sold mine.
I hoped it was just a barrel change and rotary magazine change.
But if hammer spring is required also ... no thanks.


Thanks again for everything guys , i'll post photos once i have it .

Any other tips and tricks with this will be greatly appreciated.