Author Topic: P17 – five simple mods (Read 16701 times))

WyoMan · « **Reply #20 on:** December 23, 2019, 09:04:49 PM »

Thanks guys.

Terry, the felt wasn’t really a washer per se; it was a strip that was cut to length and width. It was a tight enough fit that the ends will stay tucked in… and of course once it’s in the tube it can’t go anywhere.
I’ve used 30wt ND (pellgun oil) but have had better luck with 20wt ND. The lighter oil seems to work thru the gun better without gumming up in the valve… and any lube you put on the piston will end up in the valve. I’ve never tried silicone oil for this type of application. Thanks again.

Wyo

dv8eod · « **Reply #21 on:** December 24, 2019, 06:41:38 PM »

Thanks for the clarification. It seems like a mod that should have been factory designed to improve the longevity of these guns. I think Daisy uses felt wipers in their MSPs.

Matchstickshooter · « **Reply #22 on:** December 24, 2019, 07:05:14 PM »

Been following this... awesome build!
Chrono results ?

WyoMan · « **Reply #23 on:** December 24, 2019, 11:15:02 PM »

I believe you’re right, Terry. The FAS6004 and the HW75 also have felt oil wicks. I’ve noticed that pistons with oilers have a more consistent lubrication and pump stroke. And you don’t have to be so precise with the frequency and the amount of lube – that’s a big plus for me.
Seems like one more groove with a CNC operation and a nickel’s worth of felt wouldn’t raise the price point much…

Wendell, I did some range time today…

A couple 10-Shot groups from 10m:

Still trying to get used to the laser sight… first time using a laser but I really like it

Chrony:
Before: 365 fps for 2.5 fpe (jsb 8.44 gr)
After: 413 fps for 3.2 fpe with an e.s. of 4

That’s at 7000’ elevation. Folks at lower elevations would probably get a higher fpe. But the pump stroke or closing effort would be more difficult as well.

And regarding the pump / cocking effort… the sight aid is used as a handle to pump (close the lever). That does help and there are lever assist aids as well.
The cocking (opening the lever) can also be improved. If you have cracking, crunching or weird spring noises, then this may help…

Lube the locations that are circled in white:

Also, the red circle shows the end of the sear spring that was bent outward. The end will now bite into the plastic to keep it from sliding upward and potentially causing misalignment issues. You may not have that problem but if you do, this will fix it.

Hopefully, you only hear and/or feel two noises when you open the lever… the intermediate lever snapping into place (to lock the sear), and the vacuum release at the end of the stroke.

Thanks guys-

Wyo

Matchstickshooter · « **Reply #24 on:** December 26, 2019, 02:43:32 PM »

Well that kind of threw me. Most of the P17's I've read about started out around 400+-
so I had mistakenly thought you'd be climbing towards the low 5"s lol

And btw Sir, your builds are always outstanding!

Tom Tucker · « **Reply #25 on:** December 26, 2019, 04:57:09 PM »

Quote from: Matchstickshooter on December 26, 2019, 02:43:32 PM

Well that kind of threw me. Most of the P17's I've read about started out around 400+-
so I had mistakenly thought you'd be climbing towards the low 5"s lol

And btw Sir, your builds are always outstanding!

At sea level, he would probably be very close to 500fps.

Matchstickshooter · « **Reply #26 on:** December 26, 2019, 06:19:54 PM »

Quote from: Tom Tucker on December 26, 2019, 04:57:09 PM

Quote from: Matchstickshooter on December 26, 2019, 02:43:32 PM
Well that kind of threw me. Most of the P17's I've read about started out around 400+-
so I had mistakenly thought you'd be climbing towards the low 5"s lol

And btw Sir, your builds are always outstanding!

At sea level, he would probably be very close to 500fps.

Yep, guess 7000 is really up there!

Tom Tucker · « **Reply #27 on:** December 26, 2019, 07:33:59 PM »

Quote from: Matchstickshooter on December 26, 2019, 06:19:54 PM

Quote from: Tom Tucker on December 26, 2019, 04:57:09 PM
Quote from: Matchstickshooter on December 26, 2019, 02:43:32 PM
Well that kind of threw me. Most of the P17's I've read about started out around 400+-
so I had mistakenly thought you'd be climbing towards the low 5"s lol

And btw Sir, your builds are always outstanding!

At sea level, he would probably be very close to 500fps.

Yep, guess 7000 is really up there!

It's good for PCP and CO2

WyoMan · « **Reply #28 on:** December 29, 2019, 10:50:14 PM »

Well, guys… I’m still in search of the Holy Grail for SSPs in the thinner air (and springers for that matter). Longer barrels, higher compression, and smaller ports will help but they reach diminishing returns pretty fast.

I did pick up another 5 fps however, lol. Had a minor breech seal leak because the port bulkhead was pretty rough… no before pics, sorry.
The fix was to cut the bulkhead about 20 thou to clean it up. The o-ring has a shallower groove but no problems with that. Repositioned the barrel and all was good… you can still see some remnants of the mess:

Thanks-

Wyo

Toygunner · « **Reply #29 on:** January 04, 2020, 04:45:57 AM »

I'm so blown away by these mods and envious because I don't have the proper tools nor machining skills to do the stuff like the barrel and piston mods... I love my P17 and everything about it but after seeing this, I'm no longer content. The workmanship is so insanely perfect, *drools*

Hoosier Daddy · « **Reply #30 on:** January 04, 2020, 08:58:28 AM »

Thank you Gary for taking the time to share your wisdom.

Posting for future reference.

WyoMan · « **Reply #31 on:** January 05, 2020, 11:07:20 PM »

Thanks, guys.
I took it apart today to check the usual suspects for wear and QC issues... all o.k!
Maybe this won't be a disposable throw-away like some in the past.

I still have three in the clamshell and a LW blank in .22 cal... hmmmm

Wyo

WyoMan · « **Reply #32 on:** January 06, 2020, 11:16:50 PM »

Finally got the laser locked-on, literally.
I use it as a cocking handle and the mounts weren't secure to the rail... they're picatinny (of course) so you have to use an adapter... and the plastic (err.. composite) will cold flow. So it took a few torque sessions over a few days before everything settled down.

10-shot groups from 10m:

The P17 in .22 cal is the next project. I'm going to have to go a bit longer with the barrel, nix the choke, and hope that the trajectory will be flatter than a mortar round, lol.

Wyo

avator · « **Reply #33 on:** January 07, 2020, 07:42:42 AM »

Great accuracy Gary.

sobdiver · « **Reply #34 on:** January 07, 2020, 01:10:51 PM »

Another awesome P17 thread. You are a master. That is one sweet setup and you are giving me some great ideas.

sobdiver · « **Reply #35 on:** January 07, 2020, 05:13:12 PM »

I added an arrow to your picture. When I sanded/polished by the arrow the result was a much shorter 2nd stage.

sobdiver · « **Reply #36 on:** January 09, 2020, 07:46:52 PM »

Quote from: WyoMan on December 22, 2019, 04:54:25 PM

Last mod – Piston

This shows the original piston (minus cheap oem o-ring):

The mark on the piston is how far it comes out of the cylinder at the end of the intake stroke… that established the location for the back of the oil wick groove.

Groove is cut .120” deep and .250” wide:

The felt is .125” thick F-3. Cut to 5/16” wide it was a really tight fit in the groove:

Last thing is the now famous “diametrically channeled shim”… and a better o-ring (UC70D 116):

The shim is .033” thick JB Weld and coated with cyanoacrylate.

All this for a pistol that cost $7.50…

Wyo

For your JB Weld shim on the piston, what are the benefits of adding the cyanoacrylate and how much thickness do you think it adds?

WyoMan · « **Reply #37 on:** January 09, 2020, 11:37:55 PM »

Thanks, guys.

Hi Rick, I understand what you did in the drawing with the arrow... you're reducing the amount of engagement between the sliding surfaces.
Other folks have done something similar by increasing the adjustment (outward) of the second stage screw (they defeat the built-in stop by drilling and tapping it thru). You can only go so far with that and keep it safe... you'll still have something less than "crisp" but if it works well for you then that's a bonus!

Have you tried backing out the screw to where it just makes contact before the break? That will give you a crisp second stage without any mods to the oem setup.
Some folks (including me) don't prefer that setting because the trigger is nearly at the rear of the guard when it breaks... which leads them to screw in the second stage and then they have creep... and then they reduce engagement... etc.

The adjustable first stage screw can give you a crisp break on the second stage without the really long first stage - the break occurs with less total trigger travel. And it has a safe amount of engagement because the second stage screw is still in oem configuration.... hope that makes sense.

I use superglue on the JB Weld to seal the surface in case there are minor imperfections. It acts as a mild solvent and as such will soften, seal and congeal.
Don't know if it increases the thickness - never measured before and after. Guessing I'm a bit long-winded here... thanks again-

Wyo

avator · « **Reply #38 on:** January 10, 2020, 07:50:25 AM »

Gary.... here's a cheap and easy that makes a big difference. Cut a 3" <> section of a bicycle inner tube and slip it over the grip. You'll be surprised at the hand control it gives.

WyoMan · « **Reply #39 on:** January 10, 2020, 09:06:14 PM »

That's a pretty clever idea, Bill. I can see that working really well. The grips are a bit small (for me) and sometimes a little "rough around the edges". Thanks-

Wyo

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P17 – five simple mods

Author Topic: P17 – five simple mods (Read 16701 times))