Your Bulldog slug results

[Tonycalves]

Checking on people's results with slugs and your Bulldogs.

Today I put my chronograph @ 24 yards and shot  NSA 142 @ 762fps. I get 3 touching shots @ 25 yards. I shot the 142 NSA through 3 gallon jugs with a 2x4 just in case @ 24 yards and this is the result.
 
Hoping to get more expansion.

[redlined_b16a]

My bulldog will be here tommorow.
I hope to have the same results.
5 shots touching at 50 yards would be amazing.

Even with pellets.

[Jzizzle]

The NSA 110gr shot the best for me.  At 950 fps they deliver the punch more so then the 142gr.  110gr also puts a bigger hole in 1" plywood indicating a greater mushrooming effect.

[Danny]

I had good accuracy with the NSA 142 HP BT's in .357 but they flew a tiny bit slower than the Nossler 145's which mic'd .356 so I bought more in .356 to test.

Getting 762-643 fps, 183-131 fpe over a 10 shot fill with NSA's.

Getting 763-659 fps, 187-140 fpe over a 10 shot fill with Nossler's.

Seems best to fill every mag which keeps velocities in a 50 fps range.  There is no curve...just a fall-off after each shot.

Also picked up some NSA HP FT 140's in. 356 which have larger hollow points so they should mushroom better.

The 110's certainly would mushroom better but they deliver significantly less energy and will shed speed faster due to their lower ballistic coefficient.  I'd save those for smaller game where penetration isn't as important.

I haven't had the opportunity to shoot the .356's yet.  Hope to this weekend.

[Ironman482]

I harvested a small buck with nsa's 120 .356 dia  ,did not recover the slug ,and I  tried ,head shot no eixit I  get 2 shots at 910fps witch keeps me at the 215fpe in Texas, took a bigger buck last year with 142 gr also head shot ,all with the modded bulldog

[Kinetic45^]

If you cast there's more options.
It needs something over 800 FPS to really get expansion started.  The NSA 142 is known for its accuracy but it's a very small HP and really needs the mid to high 800s downrange WHEN IT HITS to mushroom.
An unmodified Bulldog is going to be best at around 110 to 130 bullets.
A JSAR SS valve might help for a bit better performance.
But a lot of serious airgunners who like the platform upgrade their Bulldogs to Pitbulls.  You can pay to have pPitbull do it or there's a thread right here about what and how to CAREFULLY (but doable with a home bench drill press) drill the breach and barrel passages larger... That enables you to shoot heavier bullets faster BUT you then get less shots (there's always a trade-off)

My Pitbull is shooting the NOE 148gr at  890 FPS
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=35_590.   There's some other good bullets on the NOE site too.

As per chosing bullets because of BC, at subsonic and airgun short ranges, it's a factor but one you should not focus on as it's a SMALL FACTOR and negligible.... There's a bunch higher priorities picking airgun bullets.

[gendoc]

my Pitbull carbine works best with nick's 105gr HP-FB slug for 249.3FPE

[Tonycalves]

My Bulldog came back from Jefferson State air guns shooting 250 FPE. It has a mega moderator Barrel supports depinger and the competition trigger. After installing the trigger I lost 100 FPS. It was shooting accurately so I left it.

My priority is accuracy and is the round going to do its job.

Been looking at the Hi Kal ammo. People reported the bulldog was accurate with these rounds.

[PCPhack]

I have had great accuracy with the NSA 142gr and 178gr. Earlier in my Bulldog journey, I got Nick to make some of that same boattail at 130gr. Those also shot well, but at the higher power now, I prefer the 142gr or 178gr. I always shoot my big bores tethered to a regulated tank, and generally tune for 2 shots about equal for actual hunting. Accuracy is a little under an inch at 75 yards.

I get these speeds at 4k psi (using a custom titanium reservoir, balanced valve, and enlarged transfer port) with the aforementioned slugs.

130gr 1049fps
142gr 1017fps
178gr 938fps

[Danny]

If you cast there's more options.
It needs something over 800 FPS to really get expansion started.  The NSA 142 is known for its accuracy but it's a very small HP and really needs the mid to high 800s downrange WHEN IT HITS to mushroom.
An unmodified Bulldog is going to be best at around 110 to 130 bullets.
A JSAR SS valve might help for a bit better performance.
...
As per chosing bullets because of BC, at subsonic and airgun short ranges, it's a factor but one you should not focus on as it's a SMALL FACTOR and negligible.... There's a bunch higher priorities picking airgun bullets.

Good point about BC.  I was hung up on BC vs. retained energy downrange but it isn't going to be much of a big deal at under 100 yards where I'll be shooting all my shots. 

I chose the 140 FT gr. over the 142 gr. BT at the last minute when hunting whitetail because of it's larger hollow point.  I hadn't had a chance to Chrony it and was surprised to find it was 42 fps slower than the BT (727 fps vs. 769.)

Though both 140 gr. hits on the whitetail were through and throughs so there wasn't a recovered bullet to see expansion it looked like it happened based on the size of the exit wound and size of the blood trail.  Given penetration wasn't an issue moving to a lighter faster projectile would yield even better expansion and a flatter trajectory.  It would also yield a higher fpe due to losing less speed to bearing surface area friction.

The swaged NSA's appear softer than typical cast lead and expand better because of it at lower speeds so I don't think the 800 fps rule applies...especially because of the evidence from the 140's that connected at probably a leisurely 690 fps.

I just ordered NSA's in 110, 120, & 130 gr. and .355 to test.  Based on my measurements of the .356 & .357's they run .07-.08 large.  Will be interesting to see if the .3557's still have enough diameter to shoot accurately and if they yield a little more speed.

P.S.  I also have a Hatsan Bully in .45 that I originally intended on taking with me but was having feed, trigger pull and accuracy issues and didn't have time to sort those out before the hunt.  I've now got the accuracy sorted but still have to get the trigger pull and feed fixed. The rounds tend to move forward during recoil and block the magazine from rotating.

[redlined_b16a]

Neilson 110 grain
At 55 yards
Did not chrono yet but the gun is stock so I suspect it's in the 800's
5 shots one large hole.

[Danny]

Been looking at the Hi Kal ammo. People reported the bulldog was accurate with these rounds.

Thanks.  Nice to have more options.  I just ordered 5 different bullets from HiKal.  Shipping is still free.

They have a plastic tipped bullet now...similar to the Nosler's.



https://hikalbigbore.com/shop?olsPage=products

[redlined_b16a]

I have been shooting these. 38 pistol loads
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/handgun/38-cal-358-158-gr-swc-hp#

158 grain sized .358 I fly them at 800 feet per second out of my bulldog for 210 ft lbs.The lead is on the harder side.
Teathered I have groups all holes touching
Un teathered my best is a .916" at 50 yards
Academy stocks them.$28 for 300

[ShakySarge]

I haven’t tried NSA yet but have had excellent results with the Hikalbigbore bullets. Especially the 150gr “Anvil”

[redlined_b16a]

Both groups teathered the NSA was 2800 psi
The Hornady was 2700 psi
Both 50 yards.The Hornady was sized .358 and I resized them with a die/press to .357.
The hornady is a sub 1" group.
The NSA measures .3575

[Kinetic45^]

Hahahaha
The Hikal bullet, the 'Renegade .357' is the revised bullet from Bob Sterne (ie : Rsterne here) which he designed several years ago.  It was designed as a 172gr bullet but was just too heavy to shoot in anything. Based on my experiences in both centerfire and air rifle shooting I asked Bob to redesign his bullet to 152 gr and change the nose to make it bore riding (still centers and supports the bullet but gives less bore friction. It also helps the bullet pass through a choked barrel a small bit better if someone shoting one in a .357 pellet barrel)

I then contacted Al at NOE to pay for the machining cherry to be made so everyone in the community could have a better hunting bullet for their air fifles
So , yes, this bullet is VERY accurate in any .357 with enough power to shoot it at 800 FPS or above..
I have the first mold made and had to laugh that HiKal is selling them. Good job, now non-casters can shoot it too.
Here's the link to the bullet
https://hikalbigbore.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Frenegade-hp-357

I noticed that the new NOE website has changed the bullet descriptions and all the old links pasted here are now dead.
Here's the new link to the 152gr BBT
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/?product_cat=359-174-fn-ce2-bt

[Kinetic45^]

Been looking at the Hi Kal ammo. People reported the bulldog was accurate with these rounds.

Thanks.  Nice to have more options.  I just ordered 5 different bullets from HiKal.  Shipping is still free.

They have a plastic tipped bullet now...similar to the Nosler's.



https://hikalbigbore.com/shop?olsPage=products

I'm going to point out that at subsonic velocities VERY SELDOM DO BALLISTIC TIP BULLETS EXPAND AND USUALLY ACT LIKE SOLID POINTS. Don't be fooled by their 'beautiful pleasing aerodynamic shape", again, such isn't needed at subsonic velocities
Now, I have not tried these and don't actually plan to because of LOTS of prior testing in bullet development gives me practical experience. They may have some large cavity under the tip that makes it work, again all I'm looking at is the picture.

I WILL recommend that if you plan to use them you test them in a better ballistic medium than clay or mud.
Water is less dense than flesh by about 50% so bullet penetration would double and expansion would not be as much, again a bit less than half but if you've got an old plastic 50 gallon trash can you could fill it with water and shoot vertical into it. Lay a sheet of plastic over the top first! A garbage bag over the top then taped down around the sides works. Don't set it on cement because I'll bet the bullet does not expand and goes through the 30 or 32 inches of water and punches through the bottom. Don't be fooled by any expansion you see when the bullet stops in the dirt below the garbage can, you will be able to see what's really going on if you are observant ( hint: what size hole is in the bottom of the plastic garbage can)

Another method is to tearup a BUNCH of newspaper (like a two foot stack!) and put it a garbage bag inside a sturdy cardboard box of about 24" x 24" x 24". Add some water and stir it around with your hands (a tool might puncture the bag, yes?) and keep adding and stiring till it's a bit thicker than molasses or 90 wt gear oil. Back when I used to use this before I started to use real ballistic gelatin I made a plywood box to set the bag in because of blowouts on the sides from handling and shockwaves from the bullets. It will not leave a permanent wound cavity but the bullet will expand in a better test than mud or clay. Also, if it just punches out the back with a small hole, you can thi k it did not expand much.... And how many animals are 24" thick for a bullet to pass through so you can see that the penetration wasted a lot of kinetic energy if "Elvis left the building".

Years ago I also built a trough that was 24x24 x 72 what had a replaceable plastic sheet front and a 3/8" Plexiglass side and when filled with water could be shot  to check expansion and what kind of temporary cavity formed. A pain filling it and if course the water leaked out of the bullet holes in the front. Used with some high powered centerfire rifles, even at 100 yards sometimes the shockwave would blow the front out.

[Danny]

Been looking at the Hi Kal ammo. People reported the bulldog was accurate with these rounds.

Thanks.  Nice to have more options.  I just ordered 5 different bullets from HiKal.  Shipping is still free.

They have a plastic tipped bullet now...similar to the Nosler's.



https://hikalbigbore.com/shop?olsPage=products

I'm going to point out that at subsonic velocities VERY SELDOM DO BALLISTIC TIP BULLETS EXPAND AND USUALLY ACT LIKE SOLID POINTS. Don't be fooled by their 'beautiful pleasing aerodynamic shape", again, such isn't needed at subsonic velocities
Now, I have not tried these and don't actually plan to because of LOTS of prior testing in bullet development gives me practical experience. They may have some large cavity under the tip that makes it work, again all I'm looking at is the picture.

I WILL recommend that if you plan to use them you test them in a better ballistic medium than clay or mud.
Water is less dense than flesh by about 50% so bullet penetration would double and expansion would not be as much, again a bit less than half but if you've got an old plastic 50 gallon trash can you could fill it with water and shoot vertical into it. Lay a sheet of plastic over the top first! A garbage bag over the top then taped down around the sides works. Don't set it on cement because I'll bet the bullet does not expand and goes through the 30 or 32 inches of water and punches through the bottom. Don't be fooled by any expansion you see when the bullet stops in the dirt below the garbage can, you will be able to see what's really going on if you are observant ( hint: what size hole is in the bottom of the plastic garbage can)

Another method is to tearup a BUNCH of newspaper (like a two foot stack!) and put it a garbage bag inside a sturdy cardboard box of about 24" x 24" x 24". Add some water and stir it around with your hands (a tool might puncture the bag, yes?) and keep adding and stiring till it's a bit thicker than molasses or 90 wt gear oil. Back when I used to use this before I started to use real ballistic gelatin I made a plywood box to set the bag in because of blowouts on the sides from handling and shockwaves from the bullets. It will not leave a permanent wound cavity but the bullet will expand in a better test than mud or clay. Also, if it just punches out the back with a small hole, you can thi k it did not expand much.... And how many animals are 24" thick for a bullet to pass through so you can see that the penetration wasted a lot of kinetic energy if "Elvis left the building".

Years ago I also built a trough that was 24x24 x 72 what had a replaceable plastic sheet front and a 3/8" Plexiglass side and when filled with water could be shot  to check expansion and what kind of temporary cavity formed. A pain filling it and if course the water leaked out of the bullet holes in the front. Used with some high powered centerfire rifles, even at 100 yards sometimes the shockwave would blow the front out.

I think it comes down to how soft the lead is and how big the hole in the tip is.  The Benjamin Nosler's have good expansion from what I've seen and Predator Polymags have the best expansion of any pellet I've tried.  In my experience, a hardened insert, metal or plastic usually aids in a hollow points expansion everything else being equal.

I've been toying with the idea of making my own 3D printed tip inserts to see if they might aid in the expansion of NSA hollow points. 

[redlined_b16a]

My NSA 110 do expand but the walls are so thin it does not do much good.
Maybe the other NSA slugs are diffrent.

[Tonycalves]

Shot a Hi Kal 153grain hp into 4 milk container lined up at 23yards. The slug almost blew up the first 1 gallon jug. The slug went through the first 2 and made a impression on the back side of the 3rd but did not make a hole, the slug was in the 3rd jug. No idea what the velocity was 2800psi on gauge. The 142 NSA went 762 fps so Hi Kal had to be a little slower. It measured. 64 at the widest point. The POI was similar to NSA @the 23 yards the jugs sat at. I'm impressed with the expansion at that velocity. Now I need to see if they group well.