DIANA CHASER .22 pellet loading resistance

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

Good morning;
I am trying out different pellets in my Diana Chase .22 pistol.
With some there is difficulty closing the breech bolt;& with others it is impossible
What's the fix for this, please?

(My limited knowledge, confused by avid reading, recalls something about leade)

Looking for experienced advice, please.

Thanks
Ed

[Rob M]

theres an oring seated at the rear of the barrel.. this might be the issue as it interacts with the probe ( bolt ) to seal the barrel. if its damaged , its almost impossible to push forward the bolt. remove the barrel and have a look , should take you 45 seconds to 3 minutes.

[Pelletjunkie]

Your avid reading was correct. The leade on those guns are &^^&. You will need to pull the barrel, remove the oring in the barrel and clean things up. When you get the leade/chamber right, every pellet will work nicely. I use my lathe and an assortment of dremel bits I got from Harbor Freight.

[Ribbonstone]

Not a Chaser...but the reciver/barre/o-ring system will be about the same.

You can get an eyeball on that o-ring without taking the gun apart.  This one in .177,but you can see the o-ring.  It's actually sandwitched in a recess beteen the end of the barrel and the receiver rahter than in a goove machined into the barrel itself.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               

Couple of questions:

Is the feeding difficult with the single shot tray,or just with magazines?
Do some shape pellets feed better than other shapes?

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

Your avid reading was correct. The leade on those guns are &^^&. You will need to pull the barrel, remove the oring in the barrel and clean things up. When you get the leade/chamber right, every pellet will work nicely. I use my lathe and an assortment of dremel bits I got from Harbor Freight.

Excellent advice Pelletjunkie
Between you and Rob M & Ribbonstone I can make a plan

Is a lathe essential in cleaning up the leade?
Could it be done by hand with a fine cone shaped stone, perhaps?
Does the leade begin immediately inside the breech?
Questions born of inexperience, sorry

Not a Chaser...but the reciver/barre/o-ring system will be about the same.

You can get an eyeball on that o-ring without taking the gun apart.  This one in .177,but you can see the o-ring.  It's actually sandwitched in a recess beteen the end of the barrel and the receiver rahter than in a goove machined into the barrel itself.   
[i]Great images,thanks[/i]                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

Couple of questions:

Is the feeding difficult with the single shot tray,or just with magazines?
The difficult/impossible pellets are found when using the single shot tray
Only pellets that work smoothly via single shot get used in the magazines; and they work fine

[/i]
Do some shape pellets feed better than other shapes?
Shape does not seem to be an issue; ; domes & pointed are equally likely to work well or not

[/color]
[

theres an oring seated at the rear of the barrel.. this might be the issue as it interacts with the probe ( bolt ) to seal the barrel. if its damaged , its almost impossible to push forward the bolt. remove the barrel and have a look , should take you 45 seconds to 3 minutes.

Thanks,Rob M. That's the first thing I'll see when removing the barrel.

Once again,thanks to each of you
Ed

[Pelletjunkie]

On Ribbonstones gun I would highly doubt that the transfer port is even lined up. Without the oring sitting in its recess, the barrel is pushed too far forward. You can clean things up without a lathe. I use a lathe because I like to focus on the rifling just after the transfer port. I want a nice clean angle for the pellet to ramp into the rifling and a lathe let’s me precisely control the depth of the bit. I also cut a new crown on all Chinese barrels. But they have been known to shoot pretty good with that mess they call a crown.

[KnifeMaker]

I use a professional tool similar to a dremel called a frodum. It is a staple in the jewelry business.


Rubber abrasives are avaliable from both jewelry and gunsmithing supplies. Use to be avaliable from dremel. Due to the silicosis scare, they stopped putting them in the kits. They are all over the bay though.


simply shape them by spinning them against coarse sandpaper, and they will polish the lede in perfectly in seconds. 


I wish more companies would use a setup such as that shown. Makes replacing o rings a snap. Woo-Hoo!!!
Knife

[Ribbonstone]

Did put a little more of a radius on the barrel breech which makes it look deeper in than it is, but the port is lined up and the bolt is sealing.  Co2 version bought at the same time ended up pretty much the same.   

[Pelletjunkie]

The abrasive rubber polishing pointed bits that Knifemaker mentioned are the greatest thing. They are more forgiving than a stone. I use a stone first and sometimes finish up with the rubber bit. If I was a first timer going at it by hand with a dremel tool, I would play it safe with the abrasive rubber bit.

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

On Ribbonstones gun I would highly doubt that the transfer port is even lined up. Without the oring sitting in its recess, the barrel is pushed too far forward. You can clean things up without a lathe. I use a lathe because I like to focus on the rifling just after the transfer port. I want a nice clean angle for the pellet to ramp into the rifling and a lathe let’s me precisely control the depth of the bit. I also cut a new crown on all Chinese barrels. But they have been known to shoot pretty good with that mess they call a crown.

Thanks, again Pelletjunkie
I'm going to Google leade and look for a cross section or two to see what I'm doing & where I am doing it.

I use a professional tool similar to a dremel called a frodum. It is a staple in the jewelry business.

Rubber abrasives are avaliable from both jewelry and gunsmithing supplies. Use to be avaliable from dremel. Due to the silicosis scare, they stopped putting them in the kits. They are all over the bay though.
simply shape them by spinning them against coarse sandpaper, and they will polish the lede in perfectly in seconds. 
I wish more companies would use a setup such as that shown. Makes replacing o rings a snap. Woo-Hoo!!!
Knife

Thank you, Knifemaker

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

On Ribbonstones gun I would highly doubt that the transfer port is even lined up. Without the oring sitting in its recess, the barrel is pushed too far forward. You can clean things up without a lathe. I use a lathe because I like to focus on the rifling just after the transfer port. I want a nice clean angle for the pellet to ramp into the rifling and a lathe let’s me precisely control the depth of the bit. I also cut a new crown on all Chinese barrels. But they have been known to shoot pretty good with that mess they call a crown.

Thanks, again Pelletjunkie
I'm going to Google leade and look for a cross section or two to see what I'm doing & where I am doing it.

I use a professional tool similar to a dremel called a frodum. It is a staple in the jewelry business.

Rubber abrasives are avaliable from both jewelry and gunsmithing supplies. Use to be avaliable from dremel. Due to the silicosis scare, they stopped putting them in the kits. They are all over the bay though.
simply shape them by spinning them against coarse sandpaper, and they will polish the lede in perfectly in seconds. 
I wish more companies would use a setup such as that shown. Makes replacing o rings a snap. Woo-Hoo!!!
Knife

Thank you, Knifemaker

Here is an update on the pellet loading resistance in the Diana Chaser

I have removed the barrel and sighted thru it using a flashlight.
I can see the rifling.
It appears very clean
I can also see the smooth area leading up to the rifling.
It also appears very clean & scratch free.
There is no change in diameter, nor is there any tapering between leade & rifling.
The recess in which the O ring lives is clean and smooth, as is the area around the bolt that the barrel slides into.

Here is the interesting part.
With the barrel removed and no inner O ring in place, each different type of pellet slides into the barrel easily; including those that were difficult before.
They all come back out of the barrel with a light tap on the side of the barrel

FYI
I have new O rings for both the inside & outside  of the barrel.;
and have also ordered some plastic abrasives (cones & bullet shapes) for my Dremel via eBAy
One each in 5 different grits.
If I use them at all t will only be the very finest for polishing(I think)

Any thoughts appreciated

Ed

[nervoustrigger]

Where precisely were you feeling resistance when the gun was fully assembled?  In the original post you said "there is difficulty closing the breech bolt" which would point to the pellet snagging on the step up into the rifling.  Whereas in this latest update...

With the barrel removed and no inner O ring in place, each different type of pellet slides into the barrel easily; including those that were difficult before.
They all come back out of the barrel with a light tap on the side of the barrel

...you describe inserting the pellet just partially.  Not yet into the rifling.  If it had been pressed into the rifling, it would not fall back out of the barrel with a light tap.  I say do it again except this time try pushing the pellets all the way into the rifling and see if you pick up a lot of resistance.

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

Where precisely were you feeling resistance when the gun was fully assembled?  In the original post you said "there is difficulty closing the breech bolt" which would point to the pellet snagging on the step up into the rifling.  Whereas in this latest update...

With the barrel removed and no inner O ring in place, each different type of pellet slides into the barrel easily; including those that were difficult before.
They all come back out of the barrel with a light tap on the side of the barrel

...you describe inserting the pellet just partially.  Not yet into the rifling.  If it had been pressed into the rifling, it would not fall back out of the barrel with a light tap.  I say do it again except this time try pushing the pellets all the way into the rifling and see if you pick up a lot of resistance.

Of course, nervoustrigger.
I see!
All I have done so far is essentially the same as putting a pellet on the single shot tray and poking it into the barrel with my finger
Confirming
Yes, the difficulty when assembled was closing the breech bolt

So thanks for the encouragement to push pellets as far in as the rifling.
They will most likely need a push to extract them
With the barrel off is it best to push from the breech or muzzle end.

Also, I did not notice a step up from into the rifling when looking into the barrel.
Is this difference something I should be able to perceive?

Will update tomorrow after the pellet push

Ed

[nervoustrigger]

With the barrel off is it best to push from the breech or muzzle end?

It's always preferable to push a pellet from breech to muzzle.  Not only does it match the pellet's normal direction of travel, it also minimizes the risk of damaging the crown.

Also, I did not notice a step up from into the rifling when looking into the barrel.
Is this difference something I should be able to perceive?

Yes in your words "the smooth area leading up to the rifling" is a larger diameter.  This area is referred to as the leade as pictured here:


Most leades are large enough that the pellet slips in with little to no resistance.  Certainly not the head but sometimes the skirt will because it's 0.005" to 0.0010" larger.  However both the head and the skirt will meet with some resistance as it gets pressed into the rifling.

Budget rifles like these will invariably have a sharp step because the factory just runs a reamer in and calls it done.  You really want the transition to be more gradual...a taper or at least radiused.  That way the pellet can ease into the rifling rather than getting scored by a sharp edge.

[Bentong]

On my chaser I used diamond bits from HB. When I pushed a pellet I notice it tumble a bit after the o-ring and cuts the head of the pellet. Pointed pellets worse. I remove the o-ring and used one of the two from the bit set started with the conical one then finished up with the ball shaped. I turned just using my hand so I don't mess up if I chuck it on the drill. When done...pellets glides thru and easy when closing the bolt.

[Wayne52]

I'm lucky with my .22 Airmax Master Blaster I never had that problem.  It's basically the same thing too except the Master Blaster came with everything in one box rather than having to buy things seperate to make both carbine and pistol.  I really like the moderator on the Master Blaster too, the thing is ultra quiet and it's making 11fpe with the long barrel since I opened the transfer port.

[nervoustrigger]

Here's another example I found it my photos.  Here, the transition doesn't have a tall continuous step but look at that rifling!  Might as well be a knife, ready to dice up the next unsuspecting pellet that crosses its path.

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

. I turned just using my hand so I don't mess up if I chuck it on the drill. When done...pellets glides thru and easy when closing the bolt.
[/Tquote]
Thank you, Bentong
Excellent suggestion of turning by hand.
Much more gradual; especially for a non-machinist like me
I think it can be tried with the conical rubber abrasive coming via eBay
Ed

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

Here's another example I found it my photos.  Here, the transition doesn't haveclearly a tall continuous step but look at that rifling!  Might as well be a knife, ready to dice up the next unsuspecting pellet that crosses its path.

What's the magnification on that photo, nervosetrigger?
I see the step clearly; however the rifling looks to me to be simply ridges & gullies. No swirl to it whatsoever.

Just took another look down the barrel (flashlight at muzzle end, view from breech end) and still do not perceive a step.
No worries; just sayin'

E

[KnifeMaker]

Jason, that rifling in the last pic looks much like the old BSA style. Convex rather than shape rectangles. When I polish a bore, I use crocus cloth to try to achieve something similar. By removing the sharp edges. This is in addition to the gradual slope into the rifling.


This aids in much less fouling. Particularly in slug shooters.


Ernest R. uses the same technique as I when preparing a barrel for match duty.


I questioned my method in my mind, even though I got stellar results. It was gratifying to see the Master Tuner of FX using the same system.


I feel "Much Better Now"! 


Mike