Poor accuracy with cast pellets

[Franklink]

A while back I bought the NOE Hunter mold in .22. I believe it's designation is 217-20-RF.

Well I was able to cast up some very nice looking pellets. I used lead from my pellet traps. I'd guess it is around 97% percent JSB, with the rest being Crosman. The cast pellets are soft enough lead for me to easily collapse the skirts with my fingertips and a light squeeze.

They measured to .217 with calipers and most weigh 19.6grs. I sorted by weight and kept 19.6 and 19.7 grainers, and recast any outliers.

Accuracy stinks. Worst pellets I've ever shot. Pellets were spiraling and would sometimes completely miss a 9 x11 sheet of paper at 55 yards. Occasionally a couple would go in the same one inch group at 30 yards, but not all. Even an inch at 30 is pretty bad.

I thought, well maybe some of the other weights will work better so I cast some more with different pins. I was still able to get nice looking pellets with pretty consistent weights..... that don't shoot worth &^^& in my guns.

The guns I tried them in were a Taipan Veteran Short and a Benjamin Discovery. They were tried from 18-32 fpe with the Veteran and about 18 fpe in the Disco.

The Veteran will shoot all three weights of JSB that I have tried with supreme accuracy. I've made 140 yard shots on prairie dogs with the Veteran and JSB pellets-very accurate gun.  The Disco prefers 13.43 gr JSB but will also shoot the 18.1 quite well.

Ive read about how accurate these cast pellets are for some of you guys and I'm just not seeing the same. What suggestions so you have to get good accuracy? Or do I just have two guns that happen to dislike the pellets  from my NOE mold?

[miksatx]

I've got the hunter magnum 217-24 mould and I cast recycled pellets also. But only have 15 yards to shoot, shooting a Taipan Mutant Standard. They seem pretty accurate at that distance. So I sent some to a friend to try further distance here's some 50 yard targets. Rather surprising results.
You might want to try as pure lead as you can get. See if you get any improvement.

[Back_Roads]

 The only thing I can think of at the moment that could cause these pellets not to perform well, is that the skirt pins are not centered and causing imbalance. Do the walls of the skirts measure even ?

[miksatx]

I haven't measured the skirts yet with my calipers. But that's my last inspection point. I twist each pellet against a piece of fine sand paper. Checking for even wall thickness and how flat they are. If the pins aren't straight in their bore the mould won't close the way it's made.
Just checked s single random pellet getting .221.

[Back_Roads]

 They do look good to me also, what lead hardness ? it may or may not matter I use pure lead for bullets and a 2% tin for pellets, to get better fill in the skirts.

[miksatx]

They do look good to me also, what lead hardness ? it may or may not matter I use pure lead for bullets and a 2% tin for pellets, to get better fill in the skirts.

Mine dent pretty easily with fingernail. They sure don't seem hard. I'm waiting on the new 217-20 mould to come available so I can pick one up. Later I'll dump the recycled lead from my pot. and melt up some pure lead I purchased from rotometals and run a batch. I sent a e mail to Jack asking if he noticed any spiraling while shooting those targets.

[UlteriorModem]

Tales like this is what gives me major pause when considering casting my own pellets.

Given the expense. time, and effort, only to find out you guns do not like them

Anyhow I will be watching to see if a solution is found.

[darkcharisma]

I have Mp mold for pellets too. they dont shoot well so i stopped trying. It's probably my casting skills to blam

I would wait for Wayne to chime in also. His casts are so dang nice looking. and his method is pressure bottom pour with a ladle.

I woud like to see the cast pellets from the OP also.

[Insanity]

I will be following also. I have the magnum mold waiting to get used.

[Wayne52]

When I first started casting pellets for my airguns I used the same method I used for my black powder guns, the way the mini balls are for them got me started on pressure pouring.  I recommend pure lead for .22's and .25's myself, they come out really nice with good sharp edges on the skirts and without any noticeable voids in them from after inspecting.  I will weigh pellets that I've cast and it weeds out the bad skirts quickly, I don't get very many of them as a rule.  I've never actually used a thermometer for casting either, I'll just let mold set on top of the pot when the lead is warming up along with the ladle.  I'll flux the lead good with beeswax and sawdust when smelting a pot.  I use a Lee single heat bullet caster that's 275watt and the capacity is about 4 lbs I'd say.  If I'm going to be doing a big run I'll have pure lead on hand for adding to the pot.  I keep the lead oxide down to a minimum scraping it off when it needs it.

[Franklink]

Here's some pics. Kinda hard to get nice pics of pellets. These are picked randomly out of the baggie from my last casting session. I see a rough meplat on one on the top row, and the bottom row, second from left looks like it's got wings but it doesn't-just a reflection.

Overall, I've shot much worse looking JSBs that were damaged, etc, and not had them spiral and act weird on their flight path the way my cast pellets are.

I understand that many are quite happy with NOE. I think it's awesome that a mold company worked with our industry to meet a need/want. I am under the impression that my results are atypical and started this post to see if someone has had the same problem, and, more importantly, found a solution.

[Insanity]

By the looks of them I would say they would shoot very consistent. Have you weight sorted any yet?

[screwwork]

Nice Video Wayne! Did you forget to use the lead though? JK! 
I have never tried casting, I have enough personal issues to overcome without pouring lead on myself.  I really wish I had the time to learn to cast though, I don't really shot enough at this time to make the investment worth it too.

[Franklink]

Yes, I weight sorted. My scale only goes to the tenth, but even that coarse of a weight sort easily found pellets with skirts that weren't quite filled out or had a tiny pocket of unfilled mold.

[triggertreat]

Frank, Your pellets look good.  It could be anything from head size to skirt size, to a choke issue.  It could also be the skirt hanging over the TP a bit and getting damaged due to a deeper base.

Typically, the skirts will get expanded out to the bore size on the initial blast, particularly if using soft lead.  I would take a look at these mentioned and start out with a clean barrel as well.


I would also try increasing the pot temp which will give the best fill out for increased head and skirt size.  I believe you could probably get these going once the issue is identified.  Pellets are much more forgiving and easier to correct verses the slug issues I'm dealing with on my NOE cast.  However, I do have some NOE slugs I've cast that are doing better than some swaged slugs I have.  Just got to make the barrel happy before it will let you smile.


I sort down to .30gr or less, typically.  If I'm going to all this trouble of casting, might as well make them all the same to rule that out of the accuracy equation.  It's nice to be able to do that as well.

[Insanity]

I use the gemini-20 goes down further than that but i dont sort to that extent.

[rsterne]

I sympathize with those of you that are having less than ideal results with your cast pellets.... As you know, any airgun will have pellets it likes and those it doesn't.... When you find a commercial pellet your gun doesn't like, you are out the cost of a tin of pellets (for each type it doesn't like)…. Unfortunately, if you are casting, you are out the cost of the mould and lead, and if you have never cast before, in addition the cost of the pot, handles and thermometer to get set up to do it.... 

Of course if they work out for you, you can cast your pellets at a fraction of the cost of purchasing them.... and the Meplat on the NOEs really does do the smack-down on game compared to a round-nosed design that ice-picks through.... 

I just wished that the NOE pellets were better than anything else, for anybody, in any gun.... Of course all pellet manufacturers have that same desire for their customers.... 

Bob

[Back_Roads]

 I guess if one only has a couple of air rifles casting may not be the answer, unless you have gotten a sample to test. If you have way too many guns then why not go full tilt into it. I am sure one could quickly sell their casting equipment here on the classifieds and get most of their investment back if things do not work out like "planned" .

[darkcharisma]

The pellets look good, but I still see incomplete fill lines at the skirt base. I have no idea to why the spirals...

[Kinetic45^]

Have you slugged your barrel with your cast pellets?

I've found some issues by using this proceedure.
Pull the barrel so you can insert from the breach end.
Put in a cast pellet and push it up the barrel but STOP before the choke and carefully push it back out backwards so you see what rifling engagement there is.
Then push another pellet completely through the barrel to see what the choke is doing to the pellet.

I found one rifle that was very accurate with swaged pellets but not with cast and found the choke was the problem.  That's when I tried out a friend's tapered pellet swager and sized some to fit my choke... Th cast pellets groups tightened up and shoot as good as or better than the store bought swaged.

Later in testing I tried using FinishLine bicycle chain wax lube on my cast pellets (2 or 3 drops in a Ziploc bag and 50 pellets and kneed it around, pour into the old tin and let dry) and that helped too.

An additional check is to chamber a pellet while the barrel and breach are together but the rifle is otherwise disassembled to check just where the skirt really is and make sure it is not sticking out over the TP. There is a chance (depending on the manufacturer of your gun, it's probe will seat a swaged pellet (with a different base cavity shape) different than a cast pellet. Had that happen too and ended up having the bolt modified with a .035 longer probe,, now everything clears.