Frustrated with my Benjamin Trail NP XL .22

[A.K.A. Tommy Boy]

Hi Joseph

Here is a link to a Hunting post made by the "Egyptian Sniper" and his 22 Cal Diana RWS 54 Air King.   

He is successfully making a 94 yard shot on a crow with it.  You should read about some of the other fantastic shots he has made.

> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=158637.0


This demonstrates what I was talking about.


Best Wishes - Tom

[BritishDriver]

I want to start off by saying than you to everyone for all their input.  My plan as of now is to go to the 50' indoor range that is available to me and start there.  If I am seeing improvements I will keep working on the task at hand.  If I don't, I will start at a shorter distance when the weather cooperates and if shorter distances don't help, well, I will have to make some decisions. 
I shared this with Roadworthy: 
When I first got this rifle I didn't have this much trouble.  I sighted it in, was happy hitting cans at 30 yards and killed a couple of groundhogs at close range, less than 50 feet.  Two winters ago I brought the Trail NP Xl with me to a sportsman's club I belong to with a 50' indoor range.  It was all over the place.  I found the rings loose and tightened them up and did the ball bearing modification on the trigger.  Trigger was better, but not great and still no accuracy.  The rifle sat.  I decided to play with it again this year, but nothing I tried seemed to improve the accuracy.  I kept telling myself, self, your not this bad of a shot.  So, I figured the scope was bad and threw the Center Point in the garbage.  I replaced the the scope and the trigger while I was at it and went for 50 yards thinking, what could go wrong?  New scope, trigger (which is a lot better!) and high hopes still didn't make the cut, but I am finding out that my skills at 50 yards with this rifle might be the problem.

[A.K.A. Tommy Boy]

I want to start off by saying than you to everyone for all their input.  My plan as of now is to go to the 50' indoor range that is available to me and start there.  If I am seeing improvements I will keep working on the task at hand.  If I don't, I will start at a shorter distance when the weather cooperates and if shorter distances don't help, well, I will have to make some decisions. 
I shared this with Roadworthy: 
When I first got this rifle I didn't have this much trouble.  I sighted it in, was happy hitting cans at 30 yards and killed a couple of groundhogs at close range, less than 50 feet.  Two winters ago I brought the Trail NP Xl with me to a sportsman's club I belong to with a 50' indoor range.  It was all over the place.  I found the rings loose and tightened them up and did the ball bearing modification on the trigger.  Trigger was better, but not great and still no accuracy.  The rifle sat.  I decided to play with it again this year, but nothing I tried seemed to improve the accuracy.  I kept telling myself, self, your not this bad of a shot.  So, I figured the scope was bad and threw the Center Point in the garbage.  I replaced the the scope and the trigger while I was at it and went for 50 yards thinking, what could go wrong?  New scope, trigger (which is a lot better!) and high hopes still didn't make the cut, but I am finding out that my skills at 50 yards with this rifle might be the problem.

Hi Joseph. 

OK  Sir......I understand how you feel.  Your decision is made and you have excepted the unique challenges that this rifle poses.   
This is what I would have done.     Figuring out your gun and how to hold it is what is needed.

Feel free to post any possible issues that may arise.     We are here to help you sir.

You and I will be part of the few people that still have one of these rifles.  Most other owners have moved on to PCP's.

I have done extensive hunting with my Benjamin NP XL 1100 at ranges out to 50 yards... so it is doable.

You and I will constitute our own little group of happy Benjamin NP XL owners here in the GTA Forum. 


Good Luck and Best Wishes  -  Tom

[Arch_E]

Hello Joseph,

Since I've started shooting each gun in rotation, I've noticed how easy it is to miss the sweet spot for the artillery hold on my Crosman because it's a different spot from my HW95. My dad now has my Gamo and he complained that it wasn't accurate. When I asked where he was holding the rifle, he informed me that he shot while resting the barrel on a metal bar. I showed him the marked difference by moving his placement almost back to the trigger guard. He was amazed at the improved accuracy.

Ask Tom about his card chart (3x5 I assume) that he attaches to every gun, specifying the best ammo and other pertinent data about that gun. Again, that's why this forum has been so good for helping me--there's so many good folks willing to help out.

From my perspective, you own a magnum springer (gas ram). It should shoot 50-75 yards (or more); but I have little idea of how to help you achieve that. IMO, your Benjamin Trail II needs a tuning, but that's an opinion not a fact. It may cost you the same to tune it as to replace it. Check with Mike Melick at Flying Dragon Air Guns for both a tune cost or for a new replacement. Also, search the GTA for those who will tune a Crosman or Benjamin.

Lastly, if you're reading other posts in different sub-forums, then you know that there are others fighting similar issues every day. Don't despair.

Hope all this works out, and that it works out soon so you can start having fun!

Archie

[Rocker1]

very very hard gun to shoot, had several although they are power houses takes a special person to shoot one,
for sure not a beginners air rifle. David

[BritishDriver]

Well, I was able to go to the indoor range and after finding a decent hold that seems to work better for me I am convinced it is me and ammo choice.  Now this is nothing to brag about, but I think it is something to work with while gaining my confidence back.  The attached Target is my best group shooting freehand at 50'.  This was my best group out of 9 different pellets.  I still need a lot of practice and need to continue searching out different pellets.

[Rocker1]

Yes sir dont take it wrong but it is you. Pracitce and the right pellet will get you there really not bad for offhand sir. David

[avator]

I can't shoot anything offhand. I just don't have the muscle control it takes. I have to use bags at a bench or something in the field such as trees for a side rest. Even with that, springers are hard to shoot consistently.
That double recoil is most likely the problem. Our bodies react before we even know it's happening. When the trigger is pulled the spring launches the piston. This drives the butt of the gun towards your shoulder. Then when the spring/piston reaches the end of the air chamber it pulls the gun forward. Both of these actions happen before the pellet exits the barrel and your body has reacted to both motions.... and in most cases it has over compensated.
BTW... this double recoil is also what destroys scopes that aren't airgun rated.

[unionrdr]

Okay! It was only hinted at in the beginning, but yes, air rifles are not like shooting powder burner rifles! Yes, they have that back-n-forth recoil not unlike a boxer's jab. BUT! The most important thing never mentioned once...wait for it!...is NOT trying to hold it like a powder burner!!! You absolutely cannot pull a break barrel, or any other type of airgun, TIGHT into your shoulder, with a near death grip on the forestock. You won't be able to hit the broad side of a barn that way. Hold it just enough to keep it steady, while allowing it to move as it wants to. IE, back-n-forth. THEN your accuracy will improve. As for the so-called, " artillery hold", holding my hand flat and resting the forestock on it is painful, to say the least! Just hold the forestock as you usually would...BUT (again) do not hold it tightly. Just let the forestock rest on your hand as it is wrapped around the forestock. Less strain on your grip hand to hold a multi-pound rifle steady! And some of these magnums I have go like 13lbs! So try my advice before you do anything else. This sermon is ended...vio con Dios.

[mikeyb]

I didn't see any mention of "follow through" which I think is a requirement if you hope to get consistent accuracy from any springer. Excerpt from my personal notes which may help your situation.

***********************************
Monday May 27, 2019...
Springers... love'em, hate'em, or BOTH!

Just another example of how shooting springers can be difficult.

This morning I continued "airing out" my Hatsan .25 Striker 1000W spring rifle. A few minor adjustments yesterday (lighter trigger blade spring; repaired barrel lock-up) and it feels like a "new" rifle again. Shooting Benjamin Domes 27.9 Grain at 30' with stock open sights. Everything "feels" good, but groupings are sloppy. Three pellet holes touching, then 1" left and 1" right. What?

I'm trying all sorts of variations of my artillery hold (light grip position shift, thumb-up, thumb-down, cheek weld light/heavy, etc.) and get similar results. A couple touching, then "shotgun!". Started to get a little annoyed at myself for not being able to shoot straight. Then, not really concentrating, I held the rifle with a "death grip" and a pellet went dead center target. Surely that's just a lucky shot. Tried it again and SUCCESS! Found the hold THIS rifle likes TODAY with this specific PELLET! Grouped the last 10 shots into a nickel-ragged-hole before putting the rifle away and moving on to the next project. Nicer to STOP while things are going well.

So just this morning I'm another 120 rounds into a 200 tin of .25 pellets, but have learned once again that shooting springers brings BOTH pain and pleasure!

Possible theories? Here is what I think is happening in this ONE particular case.

My specific rifle with the Walnut stock has a much different recoil/vibration pattern than its plastic stock siblings.
The .177 and .22 plastic stock versions I have USUALLY prefer a loose artillery hold.
The .25 caliber pellet velocity is almost 1/2 the velocity of .177 and therefore it STAYS IN THE BARREL almost 2 times longer.
This means ANY movement on my part that deviates from a PERFECT FOLLOW THROUGH HOLD ON TARGET will send a pellet wide.
During the "death grip" hold I could maintain a solid follow through keeping the center post dead on target and watching the pellet land right where I wanted (today).


If you want to stack pellets at 30-50 YARDS with little or NO effort, DON'T get a springer!
< Shop for a good PCP instead! >
***********************************

[Seanh]

Joseph,
You must be very old...lol. That's not a bad thing just my observation based on history. It seems these days everybody wants instant gratification, "I've got to have it now" with zero interest in taking time to earn / learn. Significant kudos to you for making the decision to stick with it and learn especially with something that can be so difficult and finicky

Don't be afraid to experiment with different types of holds.  Though do take your time learning different holds to be consistent.   While many will say that the artillery hold must be used I completely disagree with"must". To me it's just one of the easiest ways to be consistent. And for some reason it generally doesn't work for me... always feel like a gun is just going to fly out of my hands.  I'm one of the oddballs that holds his gun firmly not a death grip not pulled real tight but a consistent firm grip on the forearm pistol grip as it's pulled into me.  Probably has to do with some really good coaching I've had in my early shooting years. 

Once you master this rifle. Don't be surprised when you get your next one if it requires a completely different hold. Springers often have a mind of Their Own. For example I wish I could remember which models these were.  I had one rifle that required the screws to be properly tightened while another had to be backed out slightly. Took me awhile to figure those out.  One required me to actually hold the rifle, I can rest with a folded arm across the knee when sitting.

A piece of advice somebody gave me a long time ago. Consider the front half of the rifle stock a tuning fork. Your job is to make each time vibrate the same in attenuate the same.  Do it right and it shoots well do it wrong and you're just going to be frustrated

[mobilehomer]

I must second the advice to follow through. Try to watch the pellet hit the target through the scope. Concentrate on that and much of the other will fall into place. Lots and lots of trigger time without a lot of information overload.

[Arch_E]

I must second the advice to follow through. Try to watch the pellet hit the target through the scope. Concentrate on that and much of the other will fall into place. Lots and lots of trigger time without a lot of information overload.

+1

Doing this has really helped me in these last six months. I initially had a bad habit of flinching when the spring first fired. On my last squirrel kill from the tree (about 25 yds), I actually saw the blood appear from the head shot (didn't intend for that to be graphic--apologies). So, follow through has been greatly aided by keeping my eye on the target.


Have fun,

Archie

[CaneSniper125]

I have a Benjamin Trail NP XL .22 that is frustrating me.  I can’t get this rifle to group.  I have shot 350 to 400 different pellets through the barrel.  I replaced the trigger with a Charlie Da Tuna GTR-III and the scope with a Vortex Diamondback Rimfire that has a set 50 yard parallax.  I wonder if it tore up this scope too.    The darn thing just doesn’t seem to group or track right.  The trigger feels great now and I thought would help as with any rifle with bad trigger, but it is either me or the rifle that is still awful in accuracy.  I am going to see if it is any better around 35 yards or less, but I am ready to give up on this rifle.  If I can’t get this rifle to be accurate between 35 to 50 yards I wasted quite a bit of time and money trying.

Truth be told I don't have a lot of experience with air rifles.  Maybe I am just expecting too much out of this rifle.

Sounds like you just need to calm down and relax first.I have your same rifle and it can be deadly accurate if you hold correctly.Put some blue lock tight on the stock screws,each side of the forearm and the trigger guard to stock(closest to the rear or the butt.Make sure your scope has a parrelax adjustment and is set to that distance.I found a light grip on the gun makes a difference and use your open palm as a rest and a lose grip on the thumb hole stock also.Rifle tends to rise up when fired so try to pull trigger smoothly as possible.Start out at 10 yards then 20 and when your grouping tight at those distances then move further out.Im not gonna lie and say I get half inch groups at 50 yards but I do regulary kill crows out to 70 yards.Practice makes perfect and use heavier pellets like JSB JUMBO EXACT 18.3 or H&N barracuda or a quality pellet around 18 to 21 grains.That will help tame the beast.Good luck and tell us in the future how things go.

[redtrucker610]

I had two in the past. One a .22 and the other that I changed to a .25. Both required a lot of work and a lot of patience and practice. They both were good shooters when I sold them. Just keep at it, it will settle in after several hundered pellets. Good thing is its an easy rifle to work on. Both of mine needed new piston seals out of the box. Both required some work with JB bore paste through the barrel. I know all rifles like different pellets but looking back on my notes my .22 liked the 18.13 jsb's and the 18.21 H&N baracuda hunters the best.

[B67]

What strikes me most is your statement that you shot the rifle well or at least better when new. Almost all of my Crosman rifles were bought on the extreme cheap, because of some one else's problems and the resulting frustration....I have seen pellets hitting the shroud, bad shims at the barrel joint... I haven't had a bad crown but almost always the seal is bad or questionable. The stamping process leaves very sharp burrs and the seal winds up cut. Deburring and a new seal cures this. ..The first Crosman NP rifle I bought years ago, was a Titan which was a great shooter. I put a Charlie trigger in it right off. Tack driver, but then the accuracy died. A new scope didn't help. End of the story is a bad seal....I still own the rifle and it is a sweet shooter....As far as high powered springers go, I have a Diana 48 and a 350 magnum. The 350 will run with most of the best but if the hold is consistent it is amazingly accurate. I have never owned and shot a Trail XL but have a couple Trail NP2's. I think the XL should be able to shoot better than say the 350 because the 350 uses a long spring and has the resulting torque....I will get one someday and explore my theory....

[CaneSniper125]

What strikes me most is your statement that you shot the rifle well or at least better when new. Almost all of my Crosman rifles were bought on the extreme cheap, because of some one else's problems and the resulting frustration....I have seen pellets hitting the shroud, bad shims at the barrel joint... I haven't had a bad crown but almost always the seal is bad or questionable. The stamping process leaves very sharp burrs and the seal winds up cut. Deburring and a new seal cures this. ..The first Crosman NP rifle I bought years ago, was a Titan which was a great shooter. I put a Charlie trigger in it right off. Tack driver, but then the accuracy died. A new scope didn't help. End of the story is a bad seal....I still own the rifle and it is a sweet shooter....As far as high powered springers go, I have a Diana 48 and a 350 magnum. The 350 will run with most of the best but if the hold is consistent it is amazingly accurate. I have never owned and shot a Trail XL but have a couple Trail NP2's. I think the XL should be able to shoot better than say the 350 because the 350 uses a long spring and has the resulting torque....I will get one someday and explore my theory....

I have to say that a 350 magnum is a hard gun to stack up to.Having both the 350 and the trail xl that I love them both.The XL can be both deadly accurate and all over the paper both.It just takes getting used too.Like only shoot it and do it on a daily bassis.It comes after your so tired of being inconsistant.The 350 is smooth as you can get in a stock springer.Its just the quality of the parts and assembly.But everyone is different and has there likes and dislikes.Me I love them both.If I did have a complaint it would be weight.After a good scope were talking upward of 12-13 lbs.

[Bryan Heimann]

Craftsmanship.  At the end of the day the 350 will beat the XL if for no other reason, craftsmanship.

[unionrdr]

Craftsmanship isn't everything. At the end of the day, you still have to show some skills with your rifle of choice.

[Bryan Heimann]

I agree with that, but all else being equal...