Decoding Daisy date codes/serial numbers?

[unionrdr]

Does this site or anyone have a list of Daisy Letter/number date codes? My 1894 30-30's have a letter, year number, then the rest of the serial number. The letters, furthermore, are not the first letter of the month. What fool thought that mess up?

[cobalt327]

If your gun was made around 1972 or later the Reg. or Lot number can be used to date when the gun was stamped. Some info on this can be seen https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=152056.0

[unionrdr]

I got a little info from that link. But not complete. I really would like to see/put together a list of date letter codes and such for the daisy's. at leas as far as REG NO's are concerned. I now know E=May and L=November.  I used until 1972.

[cobalt327]

I got a little info from that link. But not complete. I really would like to see/put together a list of date letter codes and such for the daisy's. at leas as far as REG NO's are concerned. I now know E=May and L=November.  I used until 1972.

I wish you would. Good luck.

[unionrdr]

Daisy told me to go to the daisy museum forum/site and ask. Here we go with the run-around, pass-the-buck bit again. I also now know K=October. Funny that the first three date letter codes I get spells, " ELK"?

[the fuse]

This may help. Gary Garber sent it to me. Before 1972 there is no easy way to determine the age of a Daisy......although Gary seems to be able to do it.


Daisy Gun Register and Lot Numbers

by

Dave Albert and Gary Garber


      The numbering of Daisy BB guns began with a memo dated November 28, 1952, from Daisy’s Robert Shafer. In the memo, Shafer specified that register stamping would begin on December 1, 1952 (guns were then being produced in Plymouth, Michigan).  The first number to be stamped on the small frame barrels was to be 000001.  The first number to be stamped on the No. 25 jackets (receiver) was to be K000001.  In this same memo Shafer specified that, “Prior to assembling registered guns, all non-registered barrels and jackets must be used, including those to be reblued, brushed, etc.”

      These first registered small frame guns included the Nos. 111, 102, and 155.  The barrels and receivers of these guns were stamped and formed from a single piece of sheet metal.  The large frame guns were made in two parts - a receiver and a barrel - and welded together, like the No. 142 (or in the case of the No. 25, held together with a thumb screw).

      The first registered large frame guns included the Nos. 25 and 142 and these were stamped with the K prefix.  History does not tell us the reason for starting the large frame gun sequence with the letter K, but we do note that the number of the pierce and stamp machine used to stamp the large frame guns contained the letter K.  The machines used to stamp the small frames did not.

      Daisy production records show that the No. 111, Model 40 Red Ryders made on December 2, 1952 were stamped with register numbers starting with 000001 and ending with 002405.  Daisy records show that on December 8, 1952, No. 25 guns K004350 thru K005258 were produced.  There is no indication in the production records of any pump guns being produced with numbers lower than K004350, but we have personally seen a lower register number, so they do exist..

      The record keeping system was totally manual and hand written.  There are obvious errors indicated in the log, but we do not know whether these are machine or transcription errors.  For example, the No. 142 was another large frame gun in production when the register number system was first installed.  Production on February 10, 1953 was noted to start with K049557 and end with K043350 which indicated a negative production for the day.  There is a note for that day that simply says, “Defective Register No.”   

      Register numbers started with 000001 and ran to 999999 and the next letter in the alphabet would begin the next register number  – A000001 (for small frame guns).  There was never a 1,000,000 register number.

      This register number system continued until an October 26, 1972 memo from Thomas Cisar to ‘All Supervisors’ defined a new date coded register number system.  “Effective November 1, 1972, we will begin date coding the ‘Register Number’ so that the month and year of manufacture will be readily recognizable to anyone knowing the code.  The code to be followed is as follows: The first position will be a letter and will indicate the month.  The second position will be a number and will indicate the year.  The remaining five positions will simply be a consecutive numbering system that starts over again at -00001 on the first of each month and whenever a different model is run in that particular press during any one month.  For instance, A300001 would indicate the first gun produced in January, 1973, of that particular model.  B300001 would be the first gun of that model produced in February of 1973.  The following month code will be applicable:

A   January
B   February
C   March
D   April


E   May
F   June
G   July
H   August
I   Not to be used
J   September
K   October
L   November
M   December

Hence, starting in November, 1972, all guns produced in November will be coded L2. 

Whenever the same barrel is made on two runs within any one month, it will be necessary to reset the register at the next higher number where the previous run left off.  That is, if 30,000 #102 barrels were made during the first week of a month, and subsequently, in the third or fourth week, we needed to run some more #102 barrels, we would reset the register at 30001 and continue.”

   The gun numbering system was revised circa January 1982 after the previous system had been in use for about 10 years, but no official memo could be found indicating exactly when the change was made.  The number indicating the year was put in the first position in the Register number and the Month code in the second position.  The nomenclature was also changed from ‘Register Number’ to ‘Lot Number’ at some point.  The register number or lot number 3KXXXXX would have been made in October 1983.

   Lot numbers began on some guns as early as April 1973, but the old Register Nos. continued on the 1938 Red Ryder into at least 1979.

   It important that some degree of expertise be applied when decoding register numbers of guns that were made during approximately the 1960s to 1980s timeframe.  For example, if you have a No. 25 that has a Register No. A3XXXXX, is that a January 1973 gun or is it one made in the mid-1960s?  You can see that some knowledge about other variations of different guns through the years might be necessary to properly date a gun.

   In 1988, Daisy used a special numbering system for their 50th Anniversary Red Ryders.  These are simply stamped “LOT NO. 88XXXXXX”  The date “88” is followed by a six-digit production code.

   Another major change occurred in the 1990’s.  In a memo dated January 19,1994 from Joe Carr to ‘Distribution’ a new system was defined for ‘Date Codes on Products.

 “Beginning today, guns produced with sheet metal outer barrels will be date-coded with the following format:

0194___XXXXX.

The first four digits indicate that this product was produced in January 1994.  The last five digits are stamped sequentially.

There are still some products, pistols for example, which are still stamped with the old format and as soon as we can work out the details, we will change them over also.

The new date code will be in the same location as the old lot number.” (Note the mention of lot number).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Shipping Carton Codes:

On December 13, 1972,  Mr. Cisar also sent out a memo regarding the date coding of air rifle cartons:

SUBJECT:  DATE CODING- INDIVIDUAL AIR RIFLE CARTONS

We have received alpha-numeric rubber stamps to be used in stamping the ends of our individual air rifle cartons, including the CO2 300 and 880 Multi-Stroke guns.  Effective January 2, 1973, we will use a code indicating a letter for the month, a digit for the year, and two digits for the day of the month that the gun was packaged.

The following code will apply for the months: (same as the Oct 26, 1972 memo)

Examples:     M221        This would be December, 1972, 21st day of the month
      A302      This would be January, 1973, 2nd day of the month.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Our special thanks to the following individuals, who at various times have provided information pertinent to this article: 
- Joe Murfin, Vice President for Marketing, Daisy Outdoor Products and Chairman of the Board, Rogers Daisy Airgun Museum,
- Denise Johnson, Daisy Outdoor Products, Customer Service Manager, and
- Orin Ribar, Curator, Rogers Daisy Airgun Museum.

© 2006, Dave Albert and Gary Garber, all rights reserved.

[unionrdr]

Thank you! That helps a great deal. I'll have to snip that reply so I can save it for future reference. Tell Gary G thank you for the detailed information!

[Stinger177]

Leonard, if you don't mind me asking a question in your thread...

I have an old rusty Daisy model 25. Can someone please tell me where to find the serial or lot # on this gun? I read that it should be under or near the DAISY MODEL 25 stamping but all there is there is the Pat. #'S.

Thanks, 

Dennis

[cobalt327]

Leonard, if you don't mind me asking a question in your thread...

I have an old rusty Daisy model 25. Can someone please tell me where to find the serial or lot # on this gun? I read that it should be under or near the DAISY MODEL 25 stamping but all there is there is the Pat. #'S.

Thanks, 

Dennis

If it's an old Plymouth made gun it may have been made before they started using Reg. numbers.

[cobalt327]

Daisy told me to go to the daisy museum forum/site and ask.

The link to the Daisy Museum question form, as well as the info the fuse posted above was all in the link I gave you. The same link that "I got a little info from that link. But not complete." lol

[Stinger177]

Leonard, if you don't mind me asking a question in your thread...

I have an old rusty Daisy model 25. Can someone please tell me where to find the serial or lot # on this gun? I read that it should be under or near the DAISY MODEL 25 stamping but all there is there is the Pat. #'S.

Thanks, 

Dennis

If it's an old Plymouth made gun it may have been made before they started using Reg. numbers.

Hi Mark - Yes, it is a Plymouth gun. I've been doing as much reading as I can find on them and I didn't see anywhere any info on the serial numbers. Through reading one article I've think I've determined that it was made before 1956, as (I think) that was the year they moved to Rogers, Ark.

[Stinger177]

Here are the spec's on my Model 25

Six grooves on pump grip
Long throw pump arm
Curved trigger guard
Truncated cone take-down screw
Rear sight elevation screw
Welded slide bar anchor (no claw)
Rear tang on frame
Grooves on buttstock
Engraved receiver
Stock is neither Walnut nor Oak
Plymouth origin

That's all I know to look for right now.

[Yng@hrt]

Dennis- cross referencing the information you've given with Gary Garber's book seems to place your model 25 at 1936 but w/o photos it's only a guess.

Can you post closeup photos of your gun?

[Stinger177]

Thanks Marty

For some reason I had '36 in mind also, but something else (can't remember) brought me up to '56.

I'll try to get some pics up later today.

[cobalt327]

Here are the spec's on my Model 25

Six grooves on pump grip
Long throw pump arm
Curved trigger guard
Truncated cone take-down screw
Rear sight elevation screw
Welded slide bar anchor (no claw)
Rear tang on frame
Grooves on buttstock
Engraved receiver
Stock is neither Walnut nor Oak
Plymouth origin

That's all I know to look for right now.

Marty is correct, 1936 to 1952 minus the war years. If you don't have Garber's book, Daisy King has dating info:
http://www.daisyking.com/history/chronology3.htm
http://www.daisyking.com/history/PumpGuns/TheNo25PumpGun.htm

Your gun is the best version in my opinion- blued steel, wood stock, BB-sized shot tube, rolled engraving that looks nice, good rear sight- not too close to the shooter's eye, etc.

[Stinger177]

Thanks guys!! That's close enough for me.

I got this gun in an auction lot. What I really wanted from the lot was a Crosman 1389 and the 25 came with. It's really rusty on the outside. All the bluing is still there but really pitted. I took some 0000 steel wool and WD40 to it and the rust came off, but the pitting is still there of course. I'll just leave it that way. The interior is in good condition and the barrel is really good so I'll just rebuild it.....which brings up the point that.......

Info on rebuilding these is pretty much non-existent as far as I can find. Parts as well. It is missing the trigger spring which I found on ebay (hoping it's the correct one - and that I can figure out how to install it correctly). I found the piston seals and an FSM from JG so I'm hoping that's all I need. I can't find a schematic worth a darn either so I'm hoping that the FSM is sufficient.

Now to just make the tool to release the keeper tab. I should be able to use that tool on a Red Ryder as well, no?

[unionrdr]

Leonard, if you don't mind me asking a question in your thread...

I have an old rusty Daisy model 25. Can someone please tell me where to find the serial or lot # on this gun? I read that it should be under or near the DAISY MODEL 25 stamping but all there is there is the Pat. #'S.

Thanks, 

Dennis

Read the first paragraph of The Fuse's reply above. That's as close as we can get for now.

[cobalt327]

Thanks guys!! That's close enough for me.

I got this gun in an auction lot. What I really wanted from the lot was a Crosman 1389 and the 25 came with. It's really rusty on the outside. All the bluing is still there but really pitted. I took some 0000 steel wool and WD40 to it and the rust came off, but the pitting is still there of course. I'll just leave it that way. The interior is in good condition and the barrel is really good so I'll just rebuild it.....which brings up the point that.......

Info on rebuilding these is pretty much non-existent as far as I can find. Parts as well. It is missing the trigger spring which I found on ebay (hoping it's the correct one - and that I can figure out how to install it correctly). I found the piston seals and an FSM from JG so I'm hoping that's all I need. I can't find a schematic worth a darn either so I'm hoping that the FSM is sufficient.

Now to just make the tool to release the keeper tab. I should be able to use that tool on a Red Ryder as well, no?

Being a leather seal gun, the seals are available as you found. If you had wanted, the current piston, air tube and retainer pin could have been used to replace the leather.

The spring isn't under much preload so the anchor can most times be removed and replaced w/o a tool.

I'll add an attachment with trigger spring info.

[Stinger177]

Wow! Thanks Mark - those instructions are perfect!!

Regarding the seals, I already ordered the leather ones. I didn't want to spend anymore than I needed to for this gun. Just want to get it working. Model 25's aren't really my thing (yet) but this one has been lying around for a year now and I thought I should probably do something with it.

 

[cobalt327]

Wow! Thanks Mark - those instructions are perfect!!

Regarding the seals, I already ordered the leather ones. I didn't want to spend anymore than I needed to for this gun. Just want to get it working. Model 25's aren't really my thing (yet) but this one has been lying around for a year now and I thought I should probably do something with it.

 

Your quite welcome. I'll attach a copy of the model 25 pdf in case you ever want parts from Daisy (the actual pdf is too large). They're cheap and shipping isn't bad even for small orders.