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Author Topic: 2260MB Tubes with Ground Finish - DO NOT USE FOR HPA  (Read 23471 times))

Offline rsterne

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2260MB Tubes with Ground Finish - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« on: March 08, 2019, 12:54:59 PM »
I just found this warning from TKO22.... I have no first hand knowledge of this, but PLEASE check this out if you are considering using HPA on a gun equipped with a 2260MB tube.... Even bulk filling with CO2 would be questionable, as the safety margin if the gun is left inside a hot car would be less than 3:1.... CO2 can reach 1900 psi at 120*F....

Quote
TKO22 SAYS:

The Crosman 2260 air tube has recently been changed by Crosman.

The new tubes are marked: "2260MB".

These ARE NOT THE same as the old 2260 tubes. They are 0.049 wall and machine very differently than the old "2260" tubes (0.065 wall). The 2260MB tubes also have a hard step at the front threaded end that will make it very difficult to get it to seal with a Discovery fill adapter. The 2260 tubes are chamfered for a smooth squeeze on the adapter o-rings.

I have hydro'd a couple of the newer 2260MB tubes, and they failed at ~4100-4600 psi. In each case, the fill adapter blew out the front.

I have assembled about 50 PCP pistols and carbines over the course of 5-6 years, using the 2260 tubes and no failures reported. I wouldn't use a 2260MB tube except for a Co2 cartridge gun.

If this is in fact true, this thread should be made a sticky, IMO.... Stay Safe !!!!

NOTE: This appears to have been caused by Crosman grinding down the OD excessively on some 2260MB tubes during the finishing process.... Do NOT use these tubes with a ground exterior finish for either bulk fill CO2 or an HPA conversion, as the wall thickness may be uneven and thin enough in places to be unsafe at increased pressures.... See Reply #45 on Page 3 for details....

Note, these tubes are fine for use with 12 gr. CO2 cartridges, as intended, because the tube is not under pressure....


Bob
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 12:50:09 PM by rsterne »
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline d_ray50

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2019, 02:25:22 PM »
I sure hate that I just last week bought a 2260MB Sheridan tube from Magnum Airpower {Bill} set up for HPA and have all the parts ordered for complete HPA gun. I will contact Bill and see what he says.
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Offline d_ray50

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2019, 03:58:04 PM »
I just got off the phone with Bill - Magnum Airpower he said 2260MB tube same material and thickness as Discovery , 1720T etc. and that he has tested them to be sure . Sounds good to me .
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Offline Ribbonstone

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2019, 06:35:17 PM »
Don't have any new Crsoman tubes...but if the numbers are right, then I'd certainly pass on PCP use.


Don't really have a horse in this race,  no Crosman tubes under pressure (air or bulk fillco2) so no personal envolvment pro or con.
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Offline TKO22

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2019, 06:52:36 PM »
I just found this warning from TKO22.... I have no first hand knowledge of this, but PLEASE check this out if you are considering using HPA on a gun equipped with a 2260MB tube.... Even bulk filling with CO2 would be questionable, as the safety margin if the gun is left inside a hot car would be less than 3:1.... CO2 can reach 1900 psi at 120*F....

Quote
TKO22 SAYS:

The Crosman 2260 air tube has recently been changed by Crosman.

The new tubes are marked: "2260MB".

These ARE NOT THE same as the old 2260 tubes. They are 0.049 wall and machine very differently than the old "2260" tubes (0.065 wall). The 2260MB tubes also have a hard step at the front threaded end that will make it very difficult to get it to seal with a Discovery fill adapter. The 2260 tubes are chamfered for a smooth squeeze on the adapter o-rings.

I have hydro'd a couple of the newer 2260MB tubes, and they failed at ~4100-4600 psi. In each case, the fill adapter blew out the front.

I have assembled about 50 PCP pistols and carbines over the course of 5-6 years, using the 2260 tubes and no failures reported. I wouldn't use a 2260MB tube except for a Co2 cartridge gun.

If this is in fact true, this thread should be made a sticky, IMO.... Stay Safe !!!!

Bob

I have three tubes in front of me:

A 2260MB, a Discovery and a Maximus tube.

The 2260MB tube wall is .049. OD: .863

The Discovery tube wall is .063. OD: .875

The Maximus tube wall is .065. OD: 874

Average of 3 measurements each.

Probably the same material as they machine identically, but not the same dimensions.

It would be a good idea to measure and verify dimensions with any 2260MB tubes you are considering for a PCP build.

Offline Ribbonstone

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2019, 07:12:32 PM »
Well..."they" never intended them to be pressurized (with co2 or air)...so the work as intended. It's just individual's intentions/urges that are in conflict with that.
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Offline rsterne

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2019, 07:42:31 PM »
TKO22, thanks for the confirmation that the 2260MB tubes have changed and are now a thinner wall.... You say that the failure was the fill adapter blowing out the front at 4100-4600psi.... Were you using a Disco fill fitting, or something made from the CO2 cartridge retaining nut supplied with the 2260MB tube?.... Where was the O-ring, inboard or outboard of the threads?....

Your dimensions indicate that the ID of the new tube is 0.765", which is 0.020" larger than the ID of the Disco/Maximums/old 22XX tubes.... They were all 0.745" within a thou or two.... Do you know what threads are being used on the ID of the new 2260MB tube?.... Is it still 13/16"-28, or have they gone to something else?....

Regardless of the material, or the threads used.... the fact that the tube wall has been reduced from 0.065" to 0.049" will reduce the strength of the 2260MB tube by at least 25%.... If the material is of lower tensile strength, it could be a LOT less.... Anyone wanting to do an HPA conversion using one of the new, thinner wall tubes, must take great care....

Bob
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 07:50:00 PM by rsterne »
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline Magnum Airpower

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2019, 07:51:34 PM »
 I have a 2260 MB tube in front of me right now along with Maximus, Marauder Pistol and Discovery tubes. All of them are exactly .0625" wall thickness with the threaded section of the tube varying from .049" - .051". (Updated in newer post below, measured an assortment of different tubes that measured .043" at the threaded section, those were Marauder Pistol and 1701P tubes. Both were exactly .875" OD with .0625" wall thickness at the back. Got the same tube OD and wall thickness for Discovery, 2240, 2250 and 2260 tubes with .045" to .051" at the threaded end.) The threaded section is always thinner than the rest so I'm not sure what part of the tubes you guys are getting your measurements from. The variances in OD and wall thickness TKO is reporting, I've never seen that in hundreds of tubes I've checked over the years. They are consistently .0875" OD and .0625" wall thickness. The 1020 DOM tubing Crosman buys for these tubes is extremely consistent in sizing, DOM in general is known for that level of precision.

 It's widely known I've had all of these tubes tested and know for sure they're the exact same .0625" wall thickness, 7/8" (.875") OD, 1020 DOM carbon steel tubing. Same steel alloy, same hardness with only slight manufacturing variances by Crosman. Even the tubes with stamped lettering will handle 3000 PSI safely with a failure pressure of over 10,000 PSI. All you need is to secure the valve correctly with three high-strength screws and make sure your fill adapter doesn't fit the tube threads sloppily. Unless Crosman just released a completely new version made form thinner tubing, which could be the case, it would still be safe to 2000 PSI so long as the fill adapter threads fit snug. I would have to test one to know the exact limit. I will check into that possibility and update this as soon as I know. Either way, the 2260MB tubes I've sold and the few I have here in my shop are all safe to 3000 PSI and have a wall thickness of .0625".

Bill, owner and manager of Magnum Airpower LLC   
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 06:27:10 PM by Magnum Airpower »
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Offline rsterne

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2019, 07:57:48 PM »
The critical thickness, assuming the O-ring is inboard of the threads, is at that point, where the O-ring seals.... I don't have a 2260MB tube, but my bet is that Crosman have downgraded to a thinner wall tube.... even at 0.765" ID, it could still be threaded safely 13/16"-28.... However, the fill adapter and the O-ring groove in it would have to be different dimensions or it would not seal on the 0.020" larger ID....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2019, 08:30:36 PM »
Just as a disclaimer.... The tube in the build that I linked to is a true 2260 tube, not the 2260MB. I also only fill that gun to 2K.
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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2019, 08:34:34 PM »
Sorry for the confusion, I thought I had posted the link in this thread.... here is the link to the build.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=152894.msg155681743#msg155681743
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Offline Magnum Airpower

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2019, 12:04:50 AM »
 The description of a hard transition the o-ring doesn't pass over easily, this would only exist if the tube got thicker than the thread major. The tube would have to be the same outer diameter, not smaller, for there to be threads large enough to fit a fill adapter or piercing cap. So the wall thickness at the threaded section to the thread major would have to be around .049" for the adapter to fit a hold over 4000 PSI before blowing out. That means the inner diameter would have to be larger to have a .049" wall in the non-threaded tube section. That would eliminate the hard transition some tubes have. I plan to order a 2260 tube Monday but will be out of state for two weeks before I will be back to check it out. In the meantime some photos with caliper readings of the back of that tube would be helpful. Also the serial number of the tube so the date it was made can be determined. Most of the tubes I've come across were made in 2015 - 2017 and those, like I said earlier were .0625" wall thickness. My custom adapters have the threads machined over-sized to fit Crosman tubes tighter. As far as I know I'm the only one who does this. I'm aware of fill adapters made by others that blow out at much lower pressures but dare not mention their names here to avoid all the drama that would result. Discovery adapters generally fit well and have stronger threads than the Marauder Pistol version. I usually suggest those as a cheaper option.

Bill
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 12:11:20 AM by Magnum Airpower »
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Offline rsterne

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2019, 02:01:56 AM »
I don't understand what you mean that the tube would have to be larger OD, not smaller to fit the fill adapter.... I looked up the thread dimensions for 13/16"-28, and the minimum minor diameter of the female thread is 0.774".... A standard Disco/22XX tube is nominally 0.875" OD x 0.065" wall, which means it is 0.745" ID, and has to be bored out nearly 0.030" to be threaded.... The dimensions that TKO22 has from his 2260MB tube is 0.863"OD x 0.049" wall, which is 0.765" ID.... That means it still needs to be bored out to be threaded, just not as much.... If the tube was 0.875" OD x 0.049" wall, the ID would be 0.777", which means it would not have to be bored out at all to be threaded, but would still be within the tolerance for 13/16"-28 threads, which can have a maximum minor diameter as large as 0.780" for class 3A threads, or 0.782" for class 2A threads....

I'm not arguing that your 2260MB tubes aren't the same as a Disco/old 22XX/Maximus tube, I'm confident they are, you are a reputable machinist.... I have several 2260 tubes here, and they are all the same 0.745" ID and 0.065" wall thickness as a Disco tube.... What concerns me is that we have a report that there is a new, thinner 2260MB tube, with a 0.049" wall, that has had the fill adapter blow out at 4100-4600 psi.... I have no reason to disbelieve that such a tube exists, and assuming it does indeed exist, then we need to investigate it, and make sure that nobody gets hurt because they believe that all 2260 tubes are created equal....

I will make an unfounded guess here that if the new tube is indeed 0.020" larger ID, and if somebody puts an existing Disco fill fitting into it, (which is about 0.740" OD at the O-ring) then the O-ring (under 4000+ psi pressure) extrudes into the gap, leaks, and the threads become pressurized.... Since the OD of the threads is 0.813", if the OD of the tube is indeed 0.863", then the remaining wall thickness of the threaded portion is only 0.025".... That would yield at 4100 psi, the tube would stretch in diameter, and the fill fitting would blast out the end.... In other words, there would be two contributing factors combining to cause the failure at such low pressure.... The tube being a thinner wall, creates a larger gap, which allows the O-ring to fail, and then when the threaded area is pressurized, the tube expands and the plug blows out the end.... It would be a perfectly logical fit for the failure mentioned....

Please, let's just combine our efforts to insure that if this is happening, nobody gets hurt because of it....

Bob
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 02:06:51 AM by rsterne »
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline BigBird

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2019, 12:57:12 AM »
Thanks for the post and information on this Bob.  Are the part numbers for the 2260 "WC" tube and the 2260MB tube both 2260-004?  I just purchased a 2260-004 two days ago before finding this discussion.
If they are using a thinner walls for the 2260 the 2240 and 2250 tubes should be checked as well before HPA use.
Speculation: as a cost savings measure they may have calculated it driving production sales vs DIY.  A $9.00 pressure tube helps keep project costs lower than some production guns.
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Offline rsterne

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2019, 12:41:49 PM »
I have no idea if they changed the part numbers.... What is the wall thickness on your tube, measured at the back?.... ID and OD?....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline Hoosier Daddy

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2019, 02:20:14 PM »
I too ordered a 2260 tube on Friday 3/8/19.
I had intended for it to eventually be a Bulk feed project.
You can sure bet I will check the stamping, serial number, and get out the calipers and be measuring it when it arrives this week.
 I'll report here when it's in hand.

What I find curious is I have not seen a 2260MB (Metal Breech) on Crosman's website and I have been researching them for a couple years. The only one I have seen is the plastic breech Heritage 2260 (Model: 2260WC).
 I was starting to believe that PA / AGD / AV were putting the 2240SBPK metal breech kits on the Heritage in house.
 Why would Crosman change all tooling over to designate a model "2260MB" they do not sell?

I also noticed TKO mentioned this...

Quote
The 2260MB tubes also have a hard step at the front threaded end that will make it very difficult to get it to seal with a Discovery fill adapter. The 2260 tubes are chamfered for a smooth squeeze on the adapter o-rings.

Is that chamfer the reason the wall is measuring thinner at the front of the tube? I presume it would be a "lead-in" for the o-ring to be inserted without cutting it on a sharp edge.
...But then what do you mean by the "hard step"? Is there a shoulder on the ID internal of the threads?
Bob, Is that the reason you wanted measurements taken at the rear?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 02:40:30 PM by Hoosier Daddy »
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Offline BigBird

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2019, 03:03:02 PM »
Quote
Why would Crosman change all tooling over to designate a model "2260MB" they do not sell?
If I understand correctly it eliminates one step in the Machining process which is boring the ID out for the minor diameter of the 13/16-28 screw thread on the front cap.  So instead of having to bore that out to .049 wall thickness they start at .049.
Can anyone confirm that these 2260MB tubes are laser etched or are they also stamped like the previous .065 run?
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Offline TKO22

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2019, 03:57:04 PM »
Quote
Why would Crosman change all tooling over to designate a model "2260MB" they do not sell?
If I understand correctly it eliminates one step in the Machining process which is boring the ID out for the minor diameter of the 13/16-28 screw thread on the front cap.  So instead of having to bore that out to .049 wall thickness they start at .049.
Can anyone confirm that these 2260MB tubes are laser etched or are they also stamped like the previous .065 run?
I first reported my findings on the 3 2260MB tubes I received from Crosman about 2 years ago.

I recall it was on the old Crosman Green Forum.

The 3 "MB" tubes I received were roll stamped.

I posted some pictures on an earlier GTA thread, but we have since updated our servers, and those photo links probably are orphaned.

I'm traveling today and back to the shop sometime tomorrow after noonish. I'll dig hem up and re-make the directory structure on our server so the photos will display.


Offline rsterne

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2019, 10:15:38 PM »
It would indeed make economic sense for Crosman to use 0.049" wall tubing that was 0.875" OD, because they would not have to bore it out for the 13/16"-28 threads, they could just run the tap in.... Cheaper tubing and one less step in manufacturing, plus CO2 cartridges with paper labels would no longer get stuck inside the tube.... Win, win, win for Crosman….  ::)

Not only that, the Disco/Maximus valve would no longer fit properly, although they might have to make a larger OD hammer.... or maybe not, just let it rattle around?....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), XS-60c HPA in .30 cal (90 FPE), .22 cal QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Benchrest PCP, .172/6mm Regulated PCP and .224/.257 Unregulated, Three regulated BRods in .25 cal (70 FPE), .30 cal (100 FPE) & .35 cal (145 FPE), .257 Condor (180 FPE).

Offline Magnum Airpower

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Re: New 2260MB Tubes - DO NOT USE FOR HPA
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2019, 10:43:07 PM »
 In response to Bob, what I meant was the ID would have to be smaller than a wall thickness of .049" would allow in order to have a hard transition to the unthreaded section of tube. In other words the ID would be larger with a .049" wall, large enough the o-rings would pass through the transition easily.

 After the most recent update by TKO I'm even more suspicious of the thin-wall theory. I sincerely mean no disrespect, it's just that all of the 2260 MB tubes I've been working with are from that two year period he states his measurements are from. All my tubes were .0625" wall thickness with the threaded section dropping to .049" from the OD to the thread major. All of them fit Discovery and my custom fill adapters well. I only support using my fill adapters which fit the best. I also have no idea what adapter he used. I know of some that blow out at much lower pressure than the Disco adapter will, those were made for bulk-fill conversion and were never meant for PCP. Many use them for that purpose which I think is extremely dangerous.

 I'm on vacation and won't be back to my shop in Massachusetts until the first week of April. I will order a 2260 MB tube first thing Monday and have it sent to my Florida house so I can check it out sooner. Crosman isn't going to make a thin-walled tube for one poorly-selling model that requires all the internals  to be larger diameter. Especially when those internals are common to quite a few more popular models. The cost would be prohibitive unless they were planning to make all of the 22XX CO2 tubes thinner. Obviously this would affect many of us drastically so we need to get the facts straight. I mean no disrespect to anyone but I just can't trust anything posted here until I test it for myself. I will post an update as soon as I know anything solid. I appreciate TKO bringing this up, especially if it turns out to be correct. Don't see how it could be but if I've learned anything in this life it's that literally anything is possible.

Bill
  • West Hatfield, MA