Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P



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Offline RBQChicken

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Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« on: February 10, 2019, 09:29:00 PM »
I thought maybe I'd take a lot of shots very quickly with the new 34P to get to the settling down point ASAP.  I wouldn't want to waste good pellets doing that but I don't want to shoot anything too light to cause damage to the gun.

I have one of those cheap Daisy round plastic containers that have hollow pts., wadcutters and pointed pellets, as well as some ancient daisy wadcutter pellets in another container.  The weights range from 7.2 to 7.7 grains. 

Think it's safe to use these up during the break-in period, or are they too light?  Thanks!
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Offline Sfttailrdr46

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2019, 10:19:13 PM »
You will have better success with pellets in the 8 to 10 gr range and if it was my rifle I would be shooting JSB 10.34 gr pellets. or the H&N FTT but that's just me
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Offline 1216bandit

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2019, 10:30:02 PM »
To be honest I really dont think there is a break in period with regards to the barrel.  I have 2 that I bought new and before I fired them I ran quite a few patches with goo gone down the barrel [both barrels were filthy] and that was it as far as barrel treatment.  They both were crazy accurate out of the box with a good quality pellet.  A friend just got in on the deal from Cabella's and the same thing...following a good cleaning fantastic accuracy from the first shot. 
At 12 meters he was getting 5 shot pretty much one hole groups with JSB exact 8.44gr...Air Arms diablo field 8.4 gr and same thing with RWS Meisterkugeln.  A couple of off target fouling shots fired when switching and then great groups.  He is one happy camper!  I would bet you will find the same results...just give her a good barrel cleaning.

I should mention the rifles were opened up..spring ends polished...compression tubes cleaned, lubed and de-burred but again as far as the barrel, nothing more than a real good cleaning.  Congrats on the purchase..nice find!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 10:35:42 PM by 1216bandit »
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RWS 34 Panther .177 with Vortek PG2
xs-25 from MIke
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Offline RBQChicken

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 10:37:52 PM »
In response to Sfttailrdr46,

Thanks, but I'm not talking about what pellet shoots best, I'm talking about shooting a lot, quickly, to break in the gun.

I have these cheap pellets laying around (they're still laying around because they are junk and I don't want to shoot them) and if I need to shoot 100 or 200 pellets through the gun to get it to settle down (as you so often hear advised on this forum) I want to get it over quickly.  Cock, load, shoot and repeat.  In this phase I wouldn't be concerned about accuracy, so if I can use these cheap pellets without risk of them being too light for the gun I'll use them.

My concern is, will pellets of this weight offer too little resistance for this fairly powerful spring gun?

When I went to post this I noticed there was already another post from 1216bandit.  I'll respond to that next. Thanks!
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Offline RBQChicken

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2019, 10:50:40 PM »
In response to 1216bandit,

I took a total of 8 or 9 shots with the gun today, just to see what the trigger felt like (great!) and see what kind of power the gun generates.
There must be some lube in these guns when they put them together because on the first shot I got 1105 fps (using 7.9 grain Crosman hollow pts.
The next shots were 985,965,963,959,963,951,952, and 951.
If 951 with 7.9 grain pellets is what the gun is going to stabilize at then I have about a 15.8 fpe gun in .177.  Pretty nice!
What I didnít like was how harsh the shot cycle was.   Cocking was pretty smooth, but when I shot the gun it was pretty loud and you could really notice the piston slamming forward.  Right there I thought  maybe I ought to return it for a refund, but then I thought maybe it will be less harsh after one or two hundred rounds.
Thatís why Iím asking if I can shoot these cheap pellets, so I can find out quickly (cock, load, shoot it in the ground, rinse and repeat).  Thanks!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 10:52:49 PM by RBQChicken »
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Offline redcobra04

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2019, 10:59:59 PM »
I think those pellets are to light for break in purposes. Go to Wally World and get some heavier Crosman pellets for break in purposes. Cheap enough.
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Offline 1216bandit

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2019, 11:11:51 PM »
When I opened my friends rifle up I was surprised to find the amount of lube in it...things must have changed because they have been known to leave the factory quite dry.   Yours was dieseling on that first shot for sure.   It will settle down and speeds may drop a bit with use but they are pretty stout with the factory spring!  I have not run mine across the chrony in quite a while but I believe was shooting around 880 fps or so with the 8.4 gr jsb's.

Edit...Ya I agree with the above about going to a bit heavier pellet.  Since you have already got some lead in the barrel why not try a tin of jsb exact heavy or air arms field heavy?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 11:20:12 PM by 1216bandit »
RWS 34 .22 ARH kit
RWS 34 Panther .177 with Vortek PG2
xs-25 from MIke
xs-12 from Mike
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.177 Marauder Milo74 reg with goodies from Scott.
,177 Bam B21
.177 B-51
.177 Remington Express

Offline RBQChicken

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2019, 11:21:56 PM »
Thanks for the info guys. Maybe I should shake off this tendency to be frugal and just buy a cheap but heavier pellet at Wally World for the break in rather than trying to salvage something out of these old daisy tins.They only cost $3 or so anyways.  I think I bought them to shoot in an old 760 I had laying around,
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Offline Sfttailrdr46

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2019, 11:35:13 PM »
When i responded to your post I also gave pellet weights at anywhere from ~8+ gr pellets to 10.5 gr pellets will give the best results in the D34. I have owned 2 one went to another GTA member and the other was gifted to my father in law as a Christmas gift after I tuned it for him. The lightweight pellets will cause piston seal damage and ultimately premature spring failure. What brand pellet you choose to shoot from your rifle is your choice and you may get lucky with which pellet your rifle shoots best perhaps even the Crosman .177
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Offline RBQChicken

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2019, 08:23:10 AM »
It is a pretty powerful gun. I think I'll stick with your suggestion and keep the pellet weights at least 8.5 or above.  Thanks!
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Offline Sfttailrdr46

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2019, 09:19:11 AM »
I wish all my guns liked cheap pellets then I could afford to spend all my allowance on other cool stuff  ;) ;D Being retired has put a serious cramp in my wallet  :o :( :D
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Offline Yogi

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2019, 01:42:52 PM »
It is a pretty powerful gun. I think I'll stick with your suggestion and keep the pellet weights at least 8.5 or above.  Thanks!

This is all BS! ::)  Shoot your 7 grain pellets.  Yes accuracy may not be the best, but you said that is not important right now.
Just stay away from the real light lead free pellets that are in the 5 grain weight range.
Shoot what you got! ;)

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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2019, 04:58:06 PM »
Shooting in and "Running in" are not the same.

If you just want to "shoot it in" (meaning that you want all parts to wear to each other and smooth out, then by all means shoot whatever is subsonic in the gun.

HOWEVER, if you want your gun to come into its finest possible performance, then you need to "run it in".

And that includes not only shooting a medium to heavy pellet for a number of rounds, but also there is an established methodology for shoot and clean.

If you can, read this:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-diana-430l-second-entry

What was done here applies to ALL rifles, airguns and firearms.

And if you think it is not worth it, then you don't need to read this:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-diana-430l-third-and-last-entry-of-an-oem-gun

that shows that a properly run-in barrel will be less pellet picky.

My Grandpa once told me that you usually get out of life what you are willing to put into it.

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!





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Offline RBQChicken

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2019, 07:28:13 PM »
Hector,

Thanks for those links, very interesting.

When cleaning between shots, do you just use clean patches, or should you use something like Goo Gone and then clean patches?  Do you have to clean until the patches come out clean each time, or just a quick run down the bore once  between shots?

Also, why does cleaning between the shots help the barrel to be less pellet fussy down the road?  Thanks!
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Offline dtdtdtdt

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2019, 07:45:00 PM »
One thing to avoid is VERY LIGHT PELLETS that send the pellet supersonic (above 1150f/s). They generally don't shoot too well and are NON-LEAD. 

I find that most pellets that get in the 850-900f/s range shoot fairly well.  I haven't had too good luck with hollow points, but find that at shortish ranges the wadcutters do well as do the round point heavier pellets.

My RWS54 in .177 prefers the Beeman Kodiak Express pellets at 10.6gr. 

Hector is the most reliable source of information on how to properly handle a new rifle that I know.  Listen to him!!!
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Offline UhClem

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2019, 04:54:43 AM »
...
that shows that a properly run-in barrel will be less pellet picky.

My Grandpa once told me that you usually get out of life what you are willing to put into it.

;-)
The version I seem to remember is:
"Life is like a sewer--what you get out of it depends on what you put into it."
 [from "An Evening (Wasted) with Tom Lehrer" (1959)]

Seriously, thanks much for the advice/wisdom on "running in". (Even for a novice/plinker like me,) can't hurt; easy enough to do; makes sense. After all,
"You don't get a second chance to make a first impression." :)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 12:42:01 PM by UhClem »
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2019, 07:40:28 PM »
Hector,

Thanks for those links, very interesting.

When cleaning between shots, do you just use clean patches, or should you use something like Goo Gone and then clean patches?  Do you have to clean until the patches come out clean each time, or just a quick run down the bore once  between shots?

Also, why does cleaning between the shots help the barrel to be less pellet fussy down the road?  Thanks!

There are two reasons, one for airguns and one for firearms, not the same, but then neither are the projectiles.

The method I use to clean is using an OTIS "pull-through" it is a steel cable (and before everyone yells "Heresy"! I have to clarify that the steel cable is covered with some very resistant plastic), that uses their own system of round patches with three holes.
Every patch gets used three times and the fit is tight and nice, just follow OTIS' instructions.

Here is a link:
https://otistec.com/17cal-patriot-gun-cleaning-kit/#product-tab-description

and:

https://otistec.com/2-small-caliber-cleaning-patches/

I buy their patches by the thousand's box, LOL! and even though my kit was originally marketed by Marksman (now Marksman-Beeman) MANY years ago, the 2" patches are still available and are as good as ever.

Three pulls (taking care neither to rub the crown, nor to get dust all over your cable), and you're done.

Why it works:

In airguns:
Basically, because using the residual carbon of the burning of the oils as a very mild "cleaning" agent, and doing it always in the same direction, you are micro-polishing the bore, lands, grooves and all. The small amount of antimony in quality pellets, also allows the residues to act as a "cleaner".
Using a cleaning agent, would actually be counterproductive in this case because cleaning agents tend to "lift" the dirt and residues, instead of using pressure and the residues themselves to smooth things out.
Remember that airgun barrels are, usually, not made of "Barrel steel" but of DOM tubing, some stiffer than other (depends on the spec), but basically it is an industrial commodity. So, using the carbon and the salts and the antimony, is usually good enough in a quality airgun barrel.

In Firearms:
Primers' compounds have glass. Yes, silica. With the temperature and friction, some of it converts to silicon oxide. An abrasive.
By cleaning every round, then every 5, then every ten, etc . . . . you ensure that the little irregularities in the steel (product of the way steel is made and worked), do not get overemphasized by the silicon oxide accumulating in the microcavities and then making them grow with the next shot.
The result is a smooth barrel.

Why is smooth important?
Because the irregularities of the barrel are one of the main reasons why barrels vibrate. And vibrations are bad for accuracy. Even more so when you are working at the lower fringe of energy needed for the projectile to come out of the bore. A barrel that is smooth and vibrates little, usually is more pellet tolerant. Rough barrels or barrels that are uneven/non uniform, usually shoot well with only ONE pellet (if at all).

At 35,000 PSI's (not to use CUP's), even medium obstacles can be overcome and ensure a stable flight from a projectile that is between 7 and 30 times heavier than our medium weight pellets. Working at 20 ft-lbs is a completely different game. And if you have ever put a pellet through a Match barrel, you will have noted that the finish is about 10 times better. Because Match guns operate at under 5.5 ft-lbs.

Is this process an absolute, fireproof, bulletproof, foolproof, way of getting an accurate barrel? Nope! there are other things that come into play, but in a sense it is like having a reasonably uniform MV: A perfectly uniform MV does not guarantee accuracy/precision, but a MV that varies all over the place sure ensures the lack thereof.

So, that is how you do it, and that is why it works. You may opt NOT to do it, and that would be fine with me, at least now you will be taking an informed decision.

HTH, Keep well and shoot straight!





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Offline RBQChicken

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2019, 08:09:08 PM »
Hector,
Thank you for taking the time to give such a detailed, informative (and interesting!) response.  Very much appreciated!
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Offline Brazos

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Re: Lowest weight .177 you can safely shoot in an RWS 34P
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2019, 09:43:49 PM »
I would just shoot it like you normally would shooting pellets you believe will perform well.  While shooting it and breaking the rifle in you will also get a feel for the rifle which is just as important.  FWIW I find the H&N FTT (4.52 head size) and CPL to shoot well from the 34.  Sometimes the HN Barracuda Match or JSB Heavies shoot the best.  Preferably I would stick with the lighter FTT or CPL in a 34.
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