Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot



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Offline Gut2Fish

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #100 on: February 11, 2019, 05:52:06 PM »
I've kept up with your posts Wayne. That old method is indeed, in my mind, the best. I've cast for years now and with many molds. Like I said, large cavities I could never get perfect with the small Lee 10lbs pot and knew the big hooded ladle with spout would have been best choice to remedy that instead of investing in a bigger faster flow pot. Smallest cavity I'd done prior to this morning was 92 grain round nose 9mm, other than .360 round ball. These quick fill pellet molds would be easy with a ladle. I totally get how you get such large piles of perfect pellets in few hours.
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Offline triggertreat

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #101 on: February 11, 2019, 06:01:36 PM »
I just ordered the Lee Pro 4 pot along with PID controller parts and a Lee press.  I can use the bottom pour or a ladle.  I shall see which one wins, lol.
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22 Marauder Unregulated. Tuned using JSB 18.13gr:
30 Shots @ 31.02 FPE Avg., 1.36% ES, 1.58 FPE/CI
JSAR MDS Hammer, TSS and LW Air Tube mods.  MMHF barrel
UTG compact SWAT 4-16x44 IR SFP
25 Marauder Regulated. Tuned using JSB MKIIs:
24 Shots @ 55.94 FPE Avg., 1.96% ES, 1.49 FPE/CI
JSAR SS Valve, MDS Hammer, TSS and LW Air Tube mods.
Falcon Menace 5.5-25x50 IR FFP
357 Slayer Unregulated. Tuned using NSA 142gr:
4 shots @ 275.60 FPE Avg., 2.33% ES, 1.23 FPE/CI
Falcon Menace 5.5-25x56 FFP
DonnyFL Emperor LDC

Air Venturi 4500 psi compressor
Stickman fill assembly
60 min & 30 min 4500 psi CF tanks

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Offline Gut2Fish

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #102 on: February 11, 2019, 06:27:43 PM »
Nice looking pot. The stopper is upright which I bet doesn't drip like the slanted stopper on the 10lbs pot. You'll also get great flow with the larger pot. All in all with that set up you probably wouldn't ever need a ladle. The cheapo 10lbs pot has limitations is all.

I read some have massive temp control control issues. Honestly, once you cast and get into the zen of it you "know" temp and adjust it to what works by how the lead is behaving in pot and in mold. I turn up the cheapo Lee 10 pounder to full when melting then set it between 5 and 6 on temp knob once lead is melted. It's where my pot makes for good casting temp. When adding more lead as pot is running out I take a break and set the mold with fresh pour in it on top of pot to keep everything warm and go make a cup of coffee, have a smoke. Come back and lead in pot is ready to go so break sprue, dump bullets and start casting again.

Don't get me wrong, perfect temp control is going to make perfect slugs. It's just once you play with it long enough you can make perfect slugs without that expense. I mean within a grain of weight, without knowing and mothering the temp it can be done. I've cast slugs for long time PB long shot shooters that turned to air and was told I cast a great tolerance of weight. I don't even have a scale to measure it.

EDIT- reread this and see how pompous it comes across. Not the intent, just sayin' once you get to casting and get to reading the cues of lead and mold it all comes together on a modest budget. There is a zen to it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 06:44:24 PM by Gut2Fish »
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Offline triggertreat

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #103 on: February 11, 2019, 07:01:18 PM »
Nice looking pot. The stopper is upright which I bet doesn't drip like the slanted stopper on the 10lbs pot. You'll also get great flow with the larger pot. All in all with that set up you probably wouldn't ever need a ladle. The cheapo 10lbs pot has limitations is all.

I read some have massive temp control control issues. Honestly, once you cast and get into the zen of it you "know" temp and adjust it to what works by how the lead is behaving in pot and in mold. I turn up the cheapo Lee 10 pounder to full when melting then set it between 5 and 6 on temp knob once lead is melted. It's where my pot makes for good casting temp. When adding more lead as pot is running out I take a break and set the mold with fresh pour in it on top of pot to keep everything warm and go make a cup of coffee, have a smoke. Come back and lead in pot is ready to go so break sprue, dump bullets and start casting again.

Don't get me wrong, perfect temp control is going to make perfect slugs. It's just once you play with it long enough you can make perfect slugs without that expense. I mean within a grain of weight, without knowing and mothering the temp it can be done. I've cast slugs for long time PB long shot shooters that turned to air and was told I cast a great tolerance of weight. I don't even have a scale to measure it.

EDIT- reread this and see how pompous it comes across. Not the intent, just sayin' once you get to casting and get to reading the cues of lead and mold it all comes together on a modest budget. There is a zen to it.



Thanks for the input!  The PID controller parts cost me $50.99 TMD so far for the main components i.e. the controller, SSR (40 amp), heat sync, K-type thermocouple and the K-type male plug and female panel socket.  I already have a utility box, terminal strips and wire, etc.  Plus, it will be a fun build.  In the end, with experience gained with lead flow temps, I'll be able to just flip on the PID and keep a constant temp without fiddling with the Lee rheostat.  I'm sure I could manage just fine with the Lee rheostat, but at a cost of more time and trouble like you stated.
  • TN
Great are you Lord.  It's your breath in our lungs, so I'll follow and praise you only.

22 Marauder Unregulated. Tuned using JSB 18.13gr:
30 Shots @ 31.02 FPE Avg., 1.36% ES, 1.58 FPE/CI
JSAR MDS Hammer, TSS and LW Air Tube mods.  MMHF barrel
UTG compact SWAT 4-16x44 IR SFP
25 Marauder Regulated. Tuned using JSB MKIIs:
24 Shots @ 55.94 FPE Avg., 1.96% ES, 1.49 FPE/CI
JSAR SS Valve, MDS Hammer, TSS and LW Air Tube mods.
Falcon Menace 5.5-25x50 IR FFP
357 Slayer Unregulated. Tuned using NSA 142gr:
4 shots @ 275.60 FPE Avg., 2.33% ES, 1.23 FPE/CI
Falcon Menace 5.5-25x56 FFP
DonnyFL Emperor LDC

Air Venturi 4500 psi compressor
Stickman fill assembly
60 min & 30 min 4500 psi CF tanks

Click here to download a Free Spreadsheet App (New Rev 05 ver. 11-16-18)

Offline KnifeMaker

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #104 on: February 12, 2019, 12:36:28 PM »
Not pompous at all Fish. It is right on the money. However, for our smaller bullets, 1 grain variance is HUGE!!!.any more than .2 is really not going to cut it in My .257's and .25's. Smaller the bullet, harder it is go cast perfect bullets with Well under 1 MOA. I strive for 1/2 MOA at least.


I would love to have a PID on the RCBS Pro Melt. Yes, I can read the bullets temps, but a PIC setup can keep everything even, and not changing. In the Lee system used in their pots, it is especially good. Their system is really not very good at Temp control with wide swings.  GRRRR! And exactly the biggest reason I stepped up to the RCBS. 



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Offline triggertreat

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #105 on: February 12, 2019, 02:12:46 PM »
Knife, if my DIY PID works out as planned, I would be happy to build you one too at cost ~$100 realistically with buying every piece and part needed.  You would simply plug your RCBS into the controller's plug and mount the probe so that it is within the melt.  The controller has an auto tuning feature you could set in play within the programming.
  • TN
Great are you Lord.  It's your breath in our lungs, so I'll follow and praise you only.

22 Marauder Unregulated. Tuned using JSB 18.13gr:
30 Shots @ 31.02 FPE Avg., 1.36% ES, 1.58 FPE/CI
JSAR MDS Hammer, TSS and LW Air Tube mods.  MMHF barrel
UTG compact SWAT 4-16x44 IR SFP
25 Marauder Regulated. Tuned using JSB MKIIs:
24 Shots @ 55.94 FPE Avg., 1.96% ES, 1.49 FPE/CI
JSAR SS Valve, MDS Hammer, TSS and LW Air Tube mods.
Falcon Menace 5.5-25x50 IR FFP
357 Slayer Unregulated. Tuned using NSA 142gr:
4 shots @ 275.60 FPE Avg., 2.33% ES, 1.23 FPE/CI
Falcon Menace 5.5-25x56 FFP
DonnyFL Emperor LDC

Air Venturi 4500 psi compressor
Stickman fill assembly
60 min & 30 min 4500 psi CF tanks

Click here to download a Free Spreadsheet App (New Rev 05 ver. 11-16-18)

Offline KnifeMaker

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #106 on: February 12, 2019, 02:41:50 PM »
Nice offer Trigg! Saving right now for the MP .25 8 gang mold. They are going to run a batch in March. ::)
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Offline Lani52

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #107 on: February 15, 2019, 07:30:55 PM »
I have been casting every day trying different ladle techniques, then weighing the pellets,  then shooting them at 12 yards in my prod.

I canít see well enough to sort so weighing them and feeling them as I roll them with my fingers feeling for wings caused by flow into the vents, caused by too much alloy in the ladle while doing a turned to the side then upright pressure pour.

I am using the pin that is one size away from the flat base and culling to within one half tenth grain at 29.9 to 23 grains, then lubing by gently rolling in a zip lock bag, very gently, with three or four drops of 30 wt silicone oil.

This is producing .25  5 shot groups at around 450 FPS, thru a MM tj barrel and a Hawk Sidewinder 4x16 ffp, set on the max of 16 power.

I just finished 54 pours from the NOE 2 cavity .22 caliber and my sort/cull ratio is 65  percent within the parameters listed above, so I am learning at a steady rate.

My precision Harbor Freight calipers, yes that is a joke I bought them 9 years ago, they are still as accurate as ever, which is not at all :-X, are reading skirts at .217 heads at .214  plus or minus who the heck knows.

Question is do I need to size?  I always did with every mold I have owned with the exception of tapered Hoche molds.

Roachcreek
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 07:52:02 PM by Lani52 »
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Offline Lani52

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #108 on: February 15, 2019, 07:45:59 PM »
As a post script to my last post, I would use a Lee portable press for sizing, in the past I used various Lee dies, but will purchase a NOE set if needed.

I shoot sitting fron a Caldwell Max setup which is from a front and rear yoke on a tripod combination that came out less than a year ago, as a improvement from the original, meaning I forget what Caldwell calls it, not a bench, but it works.

Roachcreek
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Offline rsterne

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #109 on: February 15, 2019, 07:54:14 PM »
You should not need to size pellets, the difference between the head and skirt diameters is there to look after a wide range of bore sizes....

Bob
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1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), .22 QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Bench PCP, 6mm Regulated PCP and .257 Unregulated, Three BRods.

Offline triggertreat

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #110 on: February 15, 2019, 07:59:42 PM »
Lani, What NOE mold/part number are you using?
  • TN
Great are you Lord.  It's your breath in our lungs, so I'll follow and praise you only.

22 Marauder Unregulated. Tuned using JSB 18.13gr:
30 Shots @ 31.02 FPE Avg., 1.36% ES, 1.58 FPE/CI
JSAR MDS Hammer, TSS and LW Air Tube mods.  MMHF barrel
UTG compact SWAT 4-16x44 IR SFP
25 Marauder Regulated. Tuned using JSB MKIIs:
24 Shots @ 55.94 FPE Avg., 1.96% ES, 1.49 FPE/CI
JSAR SS Valve, MDS Hammer, TSS and LW Air Tube mods.
Falcon Menace 5.5-25x50 IR FFP
357 Slayer Unregulated. Tuned using NSA 142gr:
4 shots @ 275.60 FPE Avg., 2.33% ES, 1.23 FPE/CI
Falcon Menace 5.5-25x56 FFP
DonnyFL Emperor LDC

Air Venturi 4500 psi compressor
Stickman fill assembly
60 min & 30 min 4500 psi CF tanks

Click here to download a Free Spreadsheet App (New Rev 05 ver. 11-16-18)

Offline Wayne52

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #111 on: February 15, 2019, 08:28:13 PM »
Earlier I was doing some more plinking using the .22 Hunters @ 19.6 grains from a Crosman 150.  The pellets are really flying straight for being out of pistol. I'll bet they'd be deadly from my Prod but I don't shoot that in doors, just a little bit much at 32fpe.

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Offline Lani52

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #112 on: February 15, 2019, 08:39:42 PM »
Triggertreat,

The mold is the  217-20-RF-CE6 2 cavity brass.

Roachcreek
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Offline Wayne52

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #113 on: February 15, 2019, 08:48:14 PM »
Roachcreek that's what I'll be casting more of in the morning.
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Offline Lani52

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #114 on: February 15, 2019, 09:00:04 PM »
There was a while that I thought I would have been better off buying JSBís with that money, but then you folks got me on the right track.  I then tried the fiat base with the idea that if I could make that work, I would change the pins out to the next lower weight, which is where I am at now.

Yeah a 32 FPE Prod would alert the neighbors.

Canít wait to try them in my Skyhawk, PA sent me a shipping # this morning.

Roachcreek
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Roachcreek 615 yard Airgun-utube

Offline Wayne52

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #115 on: February 16, 2019, 12:26:59 AM »
Roachcreek I suspect that Diana Skyhawk would have the same twist rate my SPAM16 has, I know there is several parts on them that are interchangeable with mine.  Which stock did you get?  If I bought one it would be the Walnut, it's cheaper than the laminate and IMO looks better too.  I pretty sure that Skyhawk is the same thing as the P15 but with much nicer stock.. I think Diana is also doing other things to the Skyhawk according to the shot show video they did on it.
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Offline triggertreat

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #116 on: February 16, 2019, 12:48:45 AM »
Triggertreat,

The mold is the  217-20-RF-CE6 2 cavity brass.

Roachcreek



Okay, Thanks!  I was wondering how you were coming up with 29.9gr on a 20gr pellet mold, but realized the mold must come with some different base pins.  There is nothing in the description that would indicate that it does.  Anyways, yeah the skirt should have mic at .224.
  • TN
Great are you Lord.  It's your breath in our lungs, so I'll follow and praise you only.

22 Marauder Unregulated. Tuned using JSB 18.13gr:
30 Shots @ 31.02 FPE Avg., 1.36% ES, 1.58 FPE/CI
JSAR MDS Hammer, TSS and LW Air Tube mods.  MMHF barrel
UTG compact SWAT 4-16x44 IR SFP
25 Marauder Regulated. Tuned using JSB MKIIs:
24 Shots @ 55.94 FPE Avg., 1.96% ES, 1.49 FPE/CI
JSAR SS Valve, MDS Hammer, TSS and LW Air Tube mods.
Falcon Menace 5.5-25x50 IR FFP
357 Slayer Unregulated. Tuned using NSA 142gr:
4 shots @ 275.60 FPE Avg., 2.33% ES, 1.23 FPE/CI
Falcon Menace 5.5-25x56 FFP
DonnyFL Emperor LDC

Air Venturi 4500 psi compressor
Stickman fill assembly
60 min & 30 min 4500 psi CF tanks

Click here to download a Free Spreadsheet App (New Rev 05 ver. 11-16-18)

Offline rsterne

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #117 on: February 16, 2019, 01:34:28 AM »
RC, it will be interesting to see if you have any luck with the flat base pellets.... I have only tried them in .30 cal and they were awful, spiraling like crazy after 50 yards....

Bob
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Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), .22 QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Bench PCP, 6mm Regulated PCP and .257 Unregulated, Three BRods.

Offline KnifeMaker

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #118 on: February 16, 2019, 04:10:28 AM »
Mr. Bob and RC. the flat pins gave the same results in the. 25. All over the place.  :(


The lightest however, in the new barrel, WOW! ;)
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Offline Lani52

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Re: Pressure Bottom Pouring with a Lee Pot
« Reply #119 on: February 16, 2019, 07:50:49 AM »
The reason I went to the flat base pin was that I could not get the concave base that was in the mold dwhen I first got it to cast good pellets.  So I went in the opposite direction and tried the flat base.

At first I got a good group, then cast more flat bases upped the Prods power and could not duplicate that group. I reset the power level back down, but still could not get them to group

Then you guys introduced me to the threads about adjusting the pins and I tried the next pin that gave the least amount of concave base.  It groups well, perhaps the next pin that gives the bases more of a concave will be better, but for now they are working great.

Having said that, when the stars are aligned and I am shooting well the 18 grain JSB do have a slight edge in that they will print about the closest I can come to a perfect group with my eye sight. 

The real test will be when I get my Skyhawk and pick up the velocity, I have a tracking number so it has been shipped.

Sorry if my poor writing skills and initial success led you folks on a wild goose chase, youYneed to remember this is all coming. from a nearly blind guy shooting at 12 yards.

Hopefully this pellet works as I prefer heavier projectiles.

Roachcreek
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 07:56:14 AM by Lani52 »
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