Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer



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Offline lefteyeshot

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2018, 07:44:21 AM »
I've heard the F4 is hard to shoot because it's to light. I don't really care for gas ram, but now that you're thinking gas ram check out the Remington Model 777SB. $129 at PA. I think that light colored wood and chrome looks good.

I'm trying to resist ordering a .177 Walther Parrus from AOA. $149. I have a .177 Terrus. Haven't shot it in awhile. If memory serves the trigger wasn't great but it shot okay.
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Offline lefteyeshot

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2018, 08:01:33 AM »
If you're still thinking springer it seems Walmart still has some Remington Expess springers in black plastic. It has a good copy of the Rekord trigger. $114. Mines in the wood stock. Good shooter.

Someone mentioned the Hatsan Dominator. Mine is a .177 springer carbine. Love it but it is heavy and hard to cock. Underlevers aren't for everyone.
  • Savannah, Ga.
Diana 470th,56th,350PC,250
Terrus
RWS 93,320
B40,21,20
Proxima,135,155,200S carbine
ES92
Tommy
Norica Massimo, Black Eagle
CZ631,634
Hammerli X2 dual cal.
Mendoza RM 3000,600,577,377
RM2800/2000 brk brl repeaters
SilentCat GRT
Swarm
Shadow1000 GRT
Beeman: RS2,Mach12.5,2016W DB .177/.22
AR2078
AirHawkElite
BlackHawkElite in bamboo
Storm in Ben.TH.stock,GRT
Storm GRT
Sheridan 2260MB
Win.1100, 1000, 800
2 TF99,2 89,59GRT
B26-2 MM
2 B3,B4-2,B2
2 QB6,B4-1,2 QB57,2 TS45,2 Fastdeer,
2 B3-1AK,QB89,B6Z

Offline Fightinggoat

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2018, 04:50:48 PM »
If you could expand your budget just a little more than buy a HW30S from Krale.

Been following this thread and was just about to mention the HW30S when read Brazos post. Myself, now owning three of them of different vintages (1976, 2002, 2016), I cannot tell you how much in love I am with them. The newest one shoots nearly as smooth as the oldest, indicating that there is not that much break-in necessary. The S version has the renowned Rekord trigger, and is just a dream to have.

Quote
Not as turned away from gas pistons since lubing the prowler, that really helped make cocking the thing feel much better.

Fightinggoat - Curious as to what all you did to your Prowler. Been wanting to get inside of mine and see how to improve it. I did the bearing mod on the trigger and that improved it, but I also have a GRTIII on the shelf waiting to be installed. What lubing did you do?


Dennis
I added a longer set screw for the trigger, it allows more preload on the sear and really helped lighten it, in fact I can fire the gun if I turn the screw in far enough. Had to tinker with it by cocking the rifle and holding the barrel in my hand while tightening the screw until it released the piston, then I backed it off one full turn and repeated the process until it was light enough to be accurate but allowed enough engagement to be safe.

I didn't have to debut anything as it was already smooth and free of sharp or jagged edges, I lubed trigger contact and pivot points as well as the springs in the trigger group.
I lubed the piston around the seal with some moly, lubed the cocking linkage, and barrel pivot bushings.
Replaced the breech seal with an oring that stands a little prouder and is more pliable for a better seal.
Also removed the anti bear trap as I like being able to decock and I always maintain control of the barrel while cocking and loading anyway.

It really does cock with less drag now, peak effort is roughly the same, but it glides instead of slides.
I did apply a light film of moly to the NP shaft, even though I know it's sealed so tight it will get wiped away, I figured it couldn't hurt and may help lube the seal area, have done this with automotive gas struts with some success before.

I didn't even have to adjust the scope much after the lube tune, accuracy is better than before with very solid groups, no doubt due to the lighter trigger. It's a really nice shooter with respectable power.

I think a .177 barrel for it might just be all I need to be happy for a while.
It was one of the easier rifles to disassembly, very little preload on the NP, but what little preload that's there is practically impossible to compress without a spring compressor, my entire body weight could just barely budge it a single millimeter.
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Offline Stinger177

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2018, 05:43:23 PM »
After reading your reply I remembered that I also did the longer screw. That made the most difference and improvement, and I adjusted mine exactly as you described, haha. Did you retain the trigger return spring? I did, because it felt sloppy without it, but I see vid's of people who leave it out for some reason.

I'll try removing the bear trap as well. I'm like you in wanting to be able to de-cock them.

I found the parts list that I used for the Prowler .177 barrel. I'm pretty sure it was like $25 to 30. I also ordered a breech seal, but it looks like you have that covered. You'll need to order the cocking link and pin as well (part #17 and 21 on the PDF below) and find a way to flatten the pin. I put mine on the flat of a vise (with padding), had a friend hold the assembly and then tried not to hit his hand while I flattened the pin with a proper size flat faced punch and hammer (a 5lb. sledge works best). It came out looking pretty close to what the factory did and my friends hand healed up just fine.

Download the parts PDF from here (they're the part numbers that I used to order from Crosman). https://support.crosman.com/hc/en-us/articles/204787210-BPNP17X-TMP-Owner-s-Manual-EVP-2014-

I also found a wood stock for mine on ebay for like 12 bucks (plus $13 for shipping  :-\) but I like it better than the synth stock.

I like how simple it sounds to lube up, and I have a spring compressor (well, it's a five foot long bar clamp) so that should be no problem.

Thanks for the info.  :D
  • Denver, CO
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 HW30 (Beeman branded, Williams peep)
Benjamin Prowler NP (Wood stock)
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Beeman FH500

Online mac

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2018, 07:46:15 PM »
This is a link to a good thread that shows everything needed to do a barrel swap to .177 with the prices of everything you will need.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=123007.msg1455982#msg1455982
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Offline Stinger177

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2018, 08:12:48 PM »
That's a good write up for sure, but if all you want to do is change from .22 to .177 on a Benjamin Prowler NP (not a Trail NP2), order and install these parts from the PDF I linked to:

Part #8   B19-7-01-100B Barrel Assembly Qty-1
Part #17 B12-00-1B Lever Pin                  Qty-1
Part #21 B18-07-00 Lever Assembly         Qty-1
Part #9   B22-00-1A Adjust washer           Qty-0-2 (optional if you use your own)
Part# 10 B12-00-14 Breach Seal               Qty-1    (optional if you use your own)

If the Prowler NP is for sure your model, and if this doesn't work, I'll reimburse you for the parts.

Remember, that above listed lever pin is not a drive in pin. It has a head on it like a flat head screw and must be peened over to fill in the countersunk hole on the opposite side of the breech block, thus making it a permanent attachment. Look at your original .22 and you'll see what I mean.

Here's the PDF parts view

« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 08:18:49 PM by Stinger177 »
  • Denver, CO
Baikal:
 IZH 46M
 IZH MP532 (Gehmann 530 diopter)
 IZH MP60 (x2, Polymer receiver)
 IZH MP60 (Steel receiver)
 IZH MP61 (Polymer receiver)
 IZH MP514K
 IZH MP651K
 IZH 53M (x2)
Ijevsk:
 IJ-22
Webley:
 Tempest
 Hurricane
 Alecto/Zoraki HP-01 (TKO,Red Dot)
Crosman:
 1377 (18" bbl.,FT p&v,TKO)
 1389 (x2)(14"bbl,FT p&v,TKO)
 1300
 262Y (TKO)
 2240 (TKO)
SIG P226 (Pellet replica)
Slavia CZ634
Weihrauch:
 HW30S (Nikon 3-9x40AO)
 HW30S-X (ARH 624 peep)
 HW30 (Beeman branded, Williams peep)
Benjamin Prowler NP (Wood stock)
Daisy 880 (x3, 2 metal)
Beeman/Marksman 0035 (X2)
Beeman FH500

Online mac

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2018, 08:27:07 PM »
Good catch Dennis. I got in a hurry to post and didnít pay attention to it being a np2. Thank you.
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Offline Fightinggoat

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2018, 08:35:45 PM »
Thanks for the parts list. Is the cocking lever different? Or could I just remove the old one and put it on the new barrel?
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Offline Stinger177

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2018, 08:54:21 PM »
Quote
Good catch Dennis. I got in a hurry to post and didnít pay attention to it being a np2. Thank you.

Thanks mac. Didn't mean to dis you or anything.

Quote
Thanks for the parts list. Is the cocking lever different? Or could I just remove the old one and put it on the new barrel?

Not different and you can't remove it. It's permanent. I didn't even try after one look at my original.
  • Denver, CO
Baikal:
 IZH 46M
 IZH MP532 (Gehmann 530 diopter)
 IZH MP60 (x2, Polymer receiver)
 IZH MP60 (Steel receiver)
 IZH MP61 (Polymer receiver)
 IZH MP514K
 IZH MP651K
 IZH 53M (x2)
Ijevsk:
 IJ-22
Webley:
 Tempest
 Hurricane
 Alecto/Zoraki HP-01 (TKO,Red Dot)
Crosman:
 1377 (18" bbl.,FT p&v,TKO)
 1389 (x2)(14"bbl,FT p&v,TKO)
 1300
 262Y (TKO)
 2240 (TKO)
SIG P226 (Pellet replica)
Slavia CZ634
Weihrauch:
 HW30S (Nikon 3-9x40AO)
 HW30S-X (ARH 624 peep)
 HW30 (Beeman branded, Williams peep)
Benjamin Prowler NP (Wood stock)
Daisy 880 (x3, 2 metal)
Beeman/Marksman 0035 (X2)
Beeman FH500

Online mac

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2018, 10:48:59 PM »
No worries Dennis,I did not take it that way at all. :D
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Offline Stinger177

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2018, 11:32:19 PM »
No worries Dennis,I did not take it that way at all. :D

I didn't think so, just makin' sure. :D

I took a look at the second pic in series in that thread link and thought......wait.....did...I...miss.. something..on..mine? HAHA!
  • Denver, CO
Baikal:
 IZH 46M
 IZH MP532 (Gehmann 530 diopter)
 IZH MP60 (x2, Polymer receiver)
 IZH MP60 (Steel receiver)
 IZH MP61 (Polymer receiver)
 IZH MP514K
 IZH MP651K
 IZH 53M (x2)
Ijevsk:
 IJ-22
Webley:
 Tempest
 Hurricane
 Alecto/Zoraki HP-01 (TKO,Red Dot)
Crosman:
 1377 (18" bbl.,FT p&v,TKO)
 1389 (x2)(14"bbl,FT p&v,TKO)
 1300
 262Y (TKO)
 2240 (TKO)
SIG P226 (Pellet replica)
Slavia CZ634
Weihrauch:
 HW30S (Nikon 3-9x40AO)
 HW30S-X (ARH 624 peep)
 HW30 (Beeman branded, Williams peep)
Benjamin Prowler NP (Wood stock)
Daisy 880 (x3, 2 metal)
Beeman/Marksman 0035 (X2)
Beeman FH500

Offline Hoosier Daddy

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2018, 12:00:32 PM »
Looking to add a .177 springer to the arsenal, I enjoy shooting my sons xs-12 and the ammo is both cheap and plentiful, just want a full size stock and more power.

 I do however want a powerful rifle, accuracy is important, but this is more for fun and power is fun.

Doesn't have to be superb out of the box, I plan on doing a home tune on anything I buy anyway as I enjoy tinkering, including the trigger.

I do want 800-1000fps with lead,  not trying to spend much on a casual plinker that I plan on tearing into and experimenting with.
Say under $175, prefer $100-150.

I don't need a scope or bundle with accessories, I have optics I can use but will probably keep using the irons for the short ranges I will be using it for.
Want to stay with .177, I don't have a full size .177 and that's the whole reason for this acquisition.

I demand minute of tin can accuracy and power to spare, all for a large budget of $150. Any takers?


Fightinggoat: If something like this is what you are looking for I may be able to help...


If you can shoot a 800-1000fps Springer well. the crosman 1000x's are GREAT, powerful and accurate. stack pellets at 15 yards, ragged dime size hole groups at 25-30 yards. like mentioned the quest/summit/optimus/striker are great guns, exactly fit your bill.

I have a Crosman Quest 1000X that I thik fits your description above.
It was on the classifieds for a while and didn't get a bite, so I let it slip off the radar. I need to thin the heard and this gun doesn't make the short list of keepers. It just sits in the safe.
 It really performs quite well with the H&N Barracuda Match .177's in the 10.65g, Artillery held at the balance point and just let it do its "thing".

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139512.msg1403992#msg1403992

PM me if you are interested.
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Offline unionrdr

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2018, 12:56:29 PM »
My Striker 1000x does indeed give a 5-6 shot, dime-size group at 25yds with the CPHP's. With hammers 3-9x32AO mildot scope as well. About half done fitting the model 95 Turkish walnut stock to the striker 1000 action with the barrel clamp swivel kit on the way to fit the HATSAN sling I just got for it.



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Offline Horatio

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2018, 01:42:39 PM »
If you could expand your budget just a little more than buy a HW30S from Krale.

Been following this thread and was just about to mention the HW30S when read Brazos post. Myself, now owning three of them of different vintages (1976, 2002, 2016), I cannot tell you how much in love I am with them. The newest one shoots nearly as smooth as the oldest, indicating that there is not that much break-in necessary. The S version has the renowned Rekord trigger, and is just a dream to have.

Quote
Not as turned away from gas pistons since lubing the prowler, that really helped make cocking the thing feel much better.

Fightinggoat - Curious as to what all you did to your Prowler. Been wanting to get inside of mine and see how to improve it. I did the bearing mod on the trigger and that improved it, but I also have a GRTIII on the shelf waiting to be installed. What lubing did you do?


Dennis
I added a longer set screw for the trigger, it allows more preload on the sear and really helped lighten it, in fact I can fire the gun if I turn the screw in far enough. Had to tinker with it by cocking the rifle and holding the barrel in my hand while tightening the screw until it released the piston, then I backed it off one full turn and repeated the process until it was light enough to be accurate but allowed enough engagement to be safe.

I didn't have to debut anything as it was already smooth and free of sharp or jagged edges, I lubed trigger contact and pivot points as well as the springs in the trigger group.
I lubed the piston around the seal with some moly, lubed the cocking linkage, and barrel pivot bushings.
Replaced the breech seal with an oring that stands a little prouder and is more pliable for a better seal.
Also removed the anti bear trap as I like being able to decock and I always maintain control of the barrel while cocking and loading anyway.

It really does cock with less drag now, peak effort is roughly the same, but it glides instead of slides.
I did apply a light film of moly to the NP shaft, even though I know it's sealed so tight it will get wiped away, I figured it couldn't hurt and may help lube the seal area, have done this with automotive gas struts with some success before.

I didn't even have to adjust the scope much after the lube tune, accuracy is better than before with very solid groups, no doubt due to the lighter trigger. It's a really nice shooter with respectable power.

I think a .177 barrel for it might just be all I need to be happy for a while.
It was one of the easier rifles to disassembly, very little preload on the NP, but what little preload that's there is practically impossible to compress without a spring compressor, my entire body weight could just barely budge it a single millimeter.

Yep.

Anti bear trap in a break barrel. Thatís one of the ways you know a gun is designed for entry level...
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Offline Horatio

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2018, 01:46:03 PM »
Btw,

I second the Remington Express. I really like those. And the front half is B25 so barrels are plentiful.
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Offline lefteyeshot

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2018, 02:47:19 PM »
I just ran across this on amazon. BSA Supersport SE .177 wood springer $115.  The .22 is $164 and the .25 is $300+.

I can't do links. Just google amazon bsa supersport .177 air rifle.
  • Savannah, Ga.
Diana 470th,56th,350PC,250
Terrus
RWS 93,320
B40,21,20
Proxima,135,155,200S carbine
ES92
Tommy
Norica Massimo, Black Eagle
CZ631,634
Hammerli X2 dual cal.
Mendoza RM 3000,600,577,377
RM2800/2000 brk brl repeaters
SilentCat GRT
Swarm
Shadow1000 GRT
Beeman: RS2,Mach12.5,2016W DB .177/.22
AR2078
AirHawkElite
BlackHawkElite in bamboo
Storm in Ben.TH.stock,GRT
Storm GRT
Sheridan 2260MB
Win.1100, 1000, 800
2 TF99,2 89,59GRT
B26-2 MM
2 B3,B4-2,B2
2 QB6,B4-1,2 QB57,2 TS45,2 Fastdeer,
2 B3-1AK,QB89,B6Z

Offline Stinger177

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Re: Help me choose a sub $200 .177 springer
« Reply #76 on: December 08, 2018, 03:01:27 PM »
I just ran across this on amazon. BSA Supersport SE .177 wood springer $115.  The .22 is $164 and the .25 is $300+.

I can't do links. Just google amazon bsa supersport .177 air rifle.

Here's your link:

https://www.amazon.com/BSA-1504-SuperSport-Spring-Rifle-177-Caliber/dp/B00IL2X4WU/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1544295650&sr=1-1&keywords=bsa+super+sport+.177
  • Denver, CO
Baikal:
 IZH 46M
 IZH MP532 (Gehmann 530 diopter)
 IZH MP60 (x2, Polymer receiver)
 IZH MP60 (Steel receiver)
 IZH MP61 (Polymer receiver)
 IZH MP514K
 IZH MP651K
 IZH 53M (x2)
Ijevsk:
 IJ-22
Webley:
 Tempest
 Hurricane
 Alecto/Zoraki HP-01 (TKO,Red Dot)
Crosman:
 1377 (18" bbl.,FT p&v,TKO)
 1389 (x2)(14"bbl,FT p&v,TKO)
 1300
 262Y (TKO)
 2240 (TKO)
SIG P226 (Pellet replica)
Slavia CZ634
Weihrauch:
 HW30S (Nikon 3-9x40AO)
 HW30S-X (ARH 624 peep)
 HW30 (Beeman branded, Williams peep)
Benjamin Prowler NP (Wood stock)
Daisy 880 (x3, 2 metal)
Beeman/Marksman 0035 (X2)
Beeman FH500

How do you word it... "Air Guns" or "AirGuns"?