Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !



Author Topic: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !  (Read 788 times))

Offline wll2506

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1235
  • yes
  • Real Name: William
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2018, 08:26:18 PM »
Nice work on the 880 William. That new style GEO ldc looks good! I,m going to have to get one for my other 880.

Mac, it not only look good but it takes the bark out of the shot when you pump 8-10 times, you still hear the shot, but a lot of the snap is gone, well worth the money, not to mention the barrel goes in snug so there is no slop and the need for taping the barrel is gone ;-  ) ... Geo did a very nice job. To tell you the truth I may order a couple more for other 880 projects i have in the works.

wll
  • Lancaster, Ca.

Offline bhh

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 766
  • yes
  • Real Name: bhh
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2018, 11:13:34 PM »
Thanks, Bryan.

Wll - I'm not sure what size the washer is. I think it's a 1/4" washer. If you look closely at the picture I posted, it is slightly thinner and a smaller O.D. than the black Daisy washers that hold the rubber bumper.
  • Southern Ohio

Offline wll2506

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1235
  • yes
  • Real Name: William
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2018, 08:27:45 PM »
Thanks, Bryan.

Wll - I'm not sure what size the washer is. I think it's a 1/4" washer. If you look closely at the picture I posted, it is slightly thinner and a smaller O.D. than the black Daisy washers that hold the rubber bumper.

Went to the hardware store and bought some #12 screw stainless washers after taking caliper readings, that is the perfect washer size ... I will install it tomorrow at work ;- ) I hope it is not a PITA job, it doesn't look like it, but you never know ?

The ONLY issue I have is the glue under the tin foil cover on the piston head is still slightly oozing out .. I need to find another adhesion material .. a .010-.020 shim might be the answer, but what type of glue, or maybe VHB double face tape may be the answer ?



wll
  • Lancaster, Ca.

Offline bhh

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 766
  • yes
  • Real Name: bhh
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2018, 09:23:54 PM »
I don't use any foil tape. The piston head contacts the valve and the rubber bumper compresses. Pump it slowly with the valve open and you can feel the piston make contact.

I also remove that coil spring that contacts the pump handle. I've never had the pump handle pop back out, and pumping is smoother and quieter.

I use a wood-working clamp to compress the piston enough to install the roll pin.
  • Southern Ohio

Offline WyoMan

  • Marksman
  • ***
  • Posts: 465
  • Real Name: Gary
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2018, 11:34:07 PM »
Hi Wil, it looks like you're making that 880 into a nice shooter. I shot one about 40 years ago and was impressed with how easy it was to pump.
Maybe I'll get one...

Don't know much about the piston or the gun, but I've had some experience with piston shimming.... and foil tape has never worked for me. I think that the combination of piston lube and condensed moisture releases the adhesive.. under high the pressure.. don't really know but it hasn't worked for me. I've have had good luck with JB Weld as follows:

Texture the face with 220 grit so the epoxy has a better surface to grip:


Thin the epoxy with acetone or lacquer thinner so it can be poured (it won't affect the strength):


Face the shim to the desired thickness (this one is .010") and "paint" with cyanoacrylate to seal the surface:


I've done a P17, HW75, and (2) Fas 6004 this way and haven't had a problem with any of them (knock on wood)  ;D

That's a nice looking shooter you have... I'm starting to think that I "need" one  :D

Wyo
  • Wyoming

Offline wll2506

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1235
  • yes
  • Real Name: William
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2018, 01:54:04 AM »
Hi Wil, it looks like you're making that 880 into a nice shooter. I shot one about 40 years ago and was impressed with how easy it was to pump.
Maybe I'll get one...

Don't know much about the piston or the gun, but I've had some experience with piston shimming.... and foil tape has never worked for me. I think that the combination of piston lube and condensed moisture releases the adhesive.. under high the pressure.. don't really know but it hasn't worked for me. I've have had good luck with JB Weld as follows:

Texture the face with 220 grit so the epoxy has a better surface to grip:


Thin the epoxy with acetone or lacquer thinner so it can be poured (it won't affect the strength):


Face the shim to the desired thickness (this one is .010") and "paint" with cyanoacrylate to seal the surface:


I've done a P17, HW75, and (2) Fas 6004 this way and haven't had a problem with any of them (knock on wood)  ;D

That's a nice looking shooter you have... I'm starting to think that I "need" one  :D

Wyo

Gary,

Thank you for the advice ... I just may do that .. the adhesive under the foil is oozing out over time. I was thinking of a metal shim and using JB  Weld to hold the piston head to the shim. Your idea sounds easier.

I assume you have no problem with the oil dissolving the JB weld ?

wll
  • Lancaster, Ca.

Offline wll2506

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1235
  • yes
  • Real Name: William
Washer in Piston filling gap.
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2018, 11:43:56 AM »
Put a washer shim in the piston assembly to hopefully limit some elastic spring movement .. We will see.

I very well may take out the elastic spring and make that entire area solid, so there is no give, giving the pump full compression. I'm hoping this will increase air volume and pressure with less pumps but pumps would be harder as there will be no give.

I'm not trying to turn this 880 into a 800fps gun with 10.5 gr pellets, all I want is a velocity with 10.5's that will give me 5+fpe at 45 yds with 6-7 pumps if I can do that (It may take 8 ) .... about 585-625fps is what I need. If I get more, that is a plus, but I don't want to be pumping 9 + times.

wll

  • Lancaster, Ca.

Offline WyoMan

  • Marksman
  • ***
  • Posts: 465
  • Real Name: Gary
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2018, 12:55:23 PM »
Quote
I assume you have no problem with the oil dissolving the JB weld ?

No problem with the oil but on second thought, there may be a problem with the piston contacting the valve face (bulkhead). Mine were done on SSPs and I left approx. 0.010" clearance from the shim to the bulkhead. Essentially, it just took up volume and made a higher compression ratio.

So I don't know how well it will hold up under mechanical compression... should have connected those dots earlier. I like what you and bhh are doing to add preload to the piston bumper.

Wyo
  • Wyoming

Offline wll2506

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1235
  • yes
  • Real Name: William
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2018, 06:58:38 PM »
Well the speed went up a bit, but it may take getting rid of the elastomer spring and replacing it with solid washers ?

All velocities were with 9 pumps :

Crosman Piranhas 10.5gr-595 FPS
Crosman 10.6gr Copper Heavies- 585 FPS
Crosman Premier HP 7.9gr - 668 FPS

I wish this was with 7-8 pumps, but I may be asking to much !!!

The Copper Heavies and the CPHP’s give me 5 fps at 45 yds :-)     The Piranhas are almost there :-)

I might add that with 7 pumps, my 177 cal lead Gamo round balls at 8.2gr are shooting between 585-590ish fps ... giving me ~5fpe at 12 yds ... more than enough for a "Coup de Grace."  50 rounds loaded at all times is a huge plus in a hunting scenario.

I will try replacing the innards tomorrow and see if that gives me another 10+ FPS ... We will see :-)

wll
 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 08:47:16 PM by wll2506 »
  • Lancaster, Ca.

Offline bhh

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 766
  • yes
  • Real Name: bhh
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2018, 10:21:50 PM »
I replaced the rubber bumper with a solid stack of washers in my big bore 880 project. I found out that the rest of the parts can't take the stress and wear quickly. This increased headspace and power went down.

Given that, I'm a fan of the rubber bumper as a means to keep from over-stressing the system and wearing out parts prematurely. But maybe you can find the stack to give you the perfect balance between power and longevity. It's fun to try.

You really need to port the valve, drill the transfer port, make an extended slim probe, increase hammer travel, and install a stiffer hammer spring. And sand the piston head flat.  I did one mod at a time and measured the improvement. Some were only single digit improvements, but they all add up.

  • Southern Ohio

Offline wll2506

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1235
  • yes
  • Real Name: William
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2018, 12:06:39 AM »
I replaced the rubber bumper with a solid stack of washers in my big bore 880 project. I found out that the rest of the parts can't take the stress and wear quickly. This increased headspace and power went down.

Given that, I'm a fan of the rubber bumper as a means to keep from over-stressing the system and wearing out parts prematurely. But maybe you can find the stack to give you the perfect balance between power and longevity. It's fun to try.

You really need to port the valve, drill the transfer port, make an extended slim probe, increase hammer travel, and install a stiffer hammer spring. And sand the piston head flat.  I did one mod at a time and measured the improvement. Some were only single digit improvements, but they all add up.

When you took out the elastic bumper, how many times did you pump up the gun ... I'm looking at pumping no more than 7-8 times ... would this put extra wear on the parts ?  I'm trying to get 10 pump velocity using 7-8 pumps ... how much did the stiffer hammer spring help in FPS   5 fps ?

wll
  • Lancaster, Ca.

Offline bhh

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 766
  • yes
  • Real Name: bhh
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2018, 08:38:57 AM »
Good point about the number of pumps. I was going for max power and used 20+ pumps. I think you should try it and see how it works in your case.

I don't remember how much the hammer spring helped. Without it I would sometimes get valve lock.
  • Southern Ohio

Offline wll2506

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1235
  • yes
  • Real Name: William
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2018, 02:53:18 PM »
Good point about the number of pumps. I was going for max power and used 20+ pumps. I think you should try it and see how it works in your case.

I don't remember how much the hammer spring helped. Without it I would sometimes get valve lock.

I'm going to try to use the washers in place of the elastic spring .. and if I don't like that I will use Belleville washers, so I have a little give but not much ;-  )

I will NEVER use more than 10 pumps for sure ... I would like to use 7 to get the speed I want but it may be 8 or 9 pumps as the magic.number of pumps to get the speed I want.

wll
  • Lancaster, Ca.

Offline bhh

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 766
  • yes
  • Real Name: bhh
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2018, 11:38:56 PM »


I'm going to try to use the washers in place of the elastic spring .. and if I don't like that I will use Belleville washers, so I have a little give but not much ;-  )


wll

Good idea. I also thought about using a 1/16" wide o-ring in the middle of the washer stack.
  • Southern Ohio

Offline cobalt327

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1768
  • Real Name: Mark
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2018, 05:40:26 AM »
Well I took this baby apart ... it is never as easy as watching the video of the guys that have done this 100's of times ;- ) Well  my 880 frame is not cut out like all the others I have seen ... a bummer for putting in the sear shim as I had to take the trigger out .. but I did it and it is a little better, but I needed more shim ... but I can live with what I did as it is about 15% better ;- )

I also took out the pump and put JB Weld in the piston head .... that will dry for about 20 hrs ---- Also added the 901 Barrel sleeve ;- )

I then attached GEO's LDC ...... Looks great ... you do nice work Geo ;-  )

Frame Pic Below:


Geo's LDC Below:


And now for the bad news .... Yes the safety spring and ball went flying to China ... man alive was I &^#%&* OFF !!! This means I will be calling Daisy Monday and ordering some springs and detents ... but I will order some more stuff too so I wont need anything else for many years if I live that long ; - ).

wll
Interesting thread! I'd like to know the number of your gun that's stamped into the barrel shroud, if you don't mind. I'm not sure if it'll be a "S/N", or a "LOT NO." or will say nothing as all these were used in the later years. But I've only seen one other valve body that was imprinted with a number (it was 170307) but it has the "window". I'm curious where the imprinted vs. plain and new style windowed vs. no window valve bodies fit into the scheme of things.
  • GA, USA

Offline wll2506

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1235
  • yes
  • Real Name: William
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2018, 11:39:52 PM »
Frame Pic Below:



wll
[/quote]Interesting thread! I'd like to know the number of your gun that's stamped into the barrel shroud, if you don't mind. I'm not sure if it'll be a "S/N", or a "LOT NO." or will say nothing as all these were used in the later years. But I've only seen one other valve body that was imprinted with a number (it was 170307) but it has the "window". I'm curious where the imprinted vs. plain and new style windowed vs. no window valve bodies fit into the scheme of things.
[/quote]


I just looked at the barrel shroud and found no markings other than the Daisy Powerline name, caliber and made in China markings ;- (

I purchased this gun maybe 3ish weeks ago at Walmart


wll
  • Lancaster, Ca.

Offline cobalt327

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1768
  • Real Name: Mark
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2018, 01:59:54 AM »
I just looked at the barrel shroud and found no markings other than the Daisy Powerline name, caliber and made in China markings ;- (

I purchased this gun maybe 3ish weeks ago at Walmart.

wll
That's very odd- I've never seen or heard of an unmarked 880 before. Usually on the newer guns there'll be a number more to the underside of the barrel shroud than on the side like in the photo.

But thanks for trying!

Mark
  • GA, USA

Offline wll2506

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1235
  • yes
  • Real Name: William
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2018, 02:21:03 AM »
I just looked at the barrel shroud and found no markings other than the Daisy Powerline name, caliber and made in China markings ;- (

I purchased this gun maybe 3ish weeks ago at Walmart.

wll
That's very odd- I've never seen or heard of an unmarked 880 before. Usually on the newer guns there'll be a number more to the underside of the barrel shroud than on the side like in the photo.

But thanks for trying!

Mark

Wait, I was wrong ..... I have looked for the ser # before but could not find it as I had no idea where to look and second, I'm blind as a bat ;- ) Looking at your photos i went downstairs with a good light and found it ;- )


Hope this helps.

wll
  • Lancaster, Ca.

Offline cobalt327

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1768
  • Real Name: Mark
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2018, 03:13:46 AM »


Hope this helps.

wll
Wow- what an excellent photo!

Now, "16" shows up a lot. It is seen as the first 2 numbers on the model 880 as early as 2012 and quite possibly earlier. I've seen 16 on a model 25 pump gun and also on a model 35.

16 is followed by the year the gun was made, in your case 2017. The rest of the numbers probably break the date down further and no doubt the production sequence is in there too but so far I don't know what the code to it all is.

Thanks again, Mark
  • GA, USA

Offline Matchstickshooter

  • What do you mean,retired? I was tired the first time!
  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1187
  • yes
  • Real Name: Wendell
Re: Daisy 880 is Starting To Get Together !
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2018, 09:19:39 AM »
Thank you,Mark!
 You just told me how old my little 35 is, that my buddy got me from a yard sale. 2013!
  It now sports a "rifled" barrel. ;D 8)
  • Lyndon,Vt.
QB78 .177
B3-2   .22
Sears/Crosman 1st Variant 1400 .22
Crosman 3100 .177
Crosman 760-D  .177
Crosman PC 77  .177
Crosman 1377 RC .22
Crosman 130 .22
Crosman 2240 now 1740  long rifle!
Daisy 35 (rifled) .177
Daisy M/M 880  .177
Beeman P17  .177
Diana 23  .177

How do you word it... "Air Guns" or "AirGuns"?