New to airguns & GTA .... purchased a RWS 34 Panther .22

[morganp]

I am new here too but thought I'd comment since I just got a new U394FD scope last week. I really like it a lot. No caps to fool with when adjusting, just pull out on the adjuster and turn it. It is much clearer than the cheap Centerpoint that came with the Quest. There is no aperture adjustment so take that into consideration. For the money though it is a very nice scope and I am well pleased with mine.

[Onebaddj]

The t06 guns have a longer scope rail. Dont know why but its an inch longer.

[JimL911]

The problem with the T-05 Diana's is the stop holes are too shallow for stop pins. This has been rectified on the T-06 rails. A 1 piece offers more clamping surface. The Leapers adapter has a stop that fits over the front of the rail preventing slippage. It is also designed to fit over the screw in the rail so you don't have to remove it. As Gene mentioned, scopes are personal. I was just offering some suggestions. The main thing about the Golden Image is that it adjusts down to 6 yards. Great for indoor winter shooting. PA's 4 for 3 is great and free shipping over $100 but you have to add it to your cart. Once in the cart, the cheapest is free. Order 8, pay for the 6 most expensive. 12, the 9 most expensive etc. Great way to build up a supply of various brands, weights and sizes.

[ayerstg]

Gonna be a long-winded post -was at a retirement party for an FD Battalion Chief tonight...  

I was told that the Leapers scope comes with rings already to mount on that rail

This is the 'scope?  http://www.opticsplanet.net/leapers-utg-5th-gen-3-9x40-fs-riflescope-mil-dot-reticle-w-airgun-and-mounting-access.html

Yes, it comes with what you need to mount it.  But...

The 34s tend to have a fair bit of barrel droop - deliberately; it's got to do with being biased for iron sights, IIRC, but regardless, there is almost always barrel droop.  Also, the 34s still don't have a good scope stop solution, and they need one.  Lots of DiY solutions out there; most are so-so IMHO.  IDK what the deal is with the screw head sticking up on the back of the rail on the newer ones but doubt that it is meant to be used as a 'scope stop.

There are a number of solutions out there using adjustable mounts (one piece for the most part); many proponents of one or another system.  There are also a couple of UTG 11mm - to Weaver adapters specifically for the M34s that have compensation for barrel droop plus an ingenious solution for keeping things in place.  If I recall correctly, there are two models with different amounts of compensation and one without - two quick examples are:

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-scope-mount-base-fits-rws-diana-34-36-38-45-with-to5-trigger?a=2298

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-sub-compact-ita-red-green-dot-sight-30mm-tube-weaver-picatinny?a=3897

(I think the 3rd variant has 1/2 the compensation of the first one I posted) - OP has these as well.  Two caveats:  1) They really raise the 'scope, so for a 40mm 'scope, use the lowest rings you can get; 2) you need Weaver rings - be sure to use ones with 4 screws per ring.  Having written all that - I have the zero compensation adapter on my early 80s vintage M38 (same powerplant as M34) with a 5th Gen Leapers on it and it works great.  The reason I don't need compensation for that a.g. is a long story... but unless the design has completely changed (it has not), I doubt you'll be so lucky.

As I wrote, there are other solutions, so do some research here before you leap in.  Shimming one piece mounts is another solution and there are others out there that have built-in droop compensation as well.  I wish it was simpler to toss a 'scope on a M34 than it is but RWS/Diana has never addressed the problem - it's my only gripe about those a.g.

My M38 is about my favorite springer of all time; it's "just right", extremely accurate, and has a trigger that most would pay extra money for on any rifle - air gun or powder burner.  I guess the T05 is not as beloved, but no personal experience with those triggers.

I wouldn't sweat the velocity too much at this point; it's going to be lethal unless it's broken.  A tune job will make the gun cock and shoot much better; it may or may not change the velocity one way or another.  There are a lot of ways to go about getting the gun tuned - from sending it off to a professional to a lot of self-machined bits + spring & seal.  Again, tons of opinions here on GTA, which I will try to grossly lump into 3 categories, ranging from least experience required to most:  1) pro tune; 2) drop-in a kit from Vortek; 3) tune kit or parts from Maccarri.  No advice from me on which to choose, but 3 observations:  some folks are rabid (best word) for one or another thing in this area, I really like JM's products a lot, and many folks really like the Vortek products (which I have not yet tried).  Don't think you can go wrong here...

Lots of pro tuners here on GTA to choose from and AFAIK all good.  Vortek and JM links are:

http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/

http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/page/page/251327.htm

Backing up a bit... if you have not already done so, might be a good idea to clean the bore.  Haven't seen a new one yet that didn't need that.  Lots of folks use Goo-gone; I use Ballistol; either works fine.  You can also gently polish the bore a bit (if it needs a real lapping job - probably not - that's another story beyond the scope of this).  Again, many folks use J-B bore paste, and I use that as well.  Lately I've been using Mother's Mag & Aluminum polish on air gun bores and it seems to work very well also.  

In any event, it goes like this for me with a new air gun bore:  Shoot until dieseling is gone / little to no smoke on firing; clean completely with Ballistol (or goo gone if you prefer it), polish with J-B or Mother's, re-clean to bare metal, dry patches, then shoot.  I do not find that it takes as many shots to steady in the bore as others do (the chrony doesn't lie), but to each their own.  After initial cleaning, I don't find they need much very often with most brands of pellets and they rarely need more than a couple of dry patches until I've put a lot of pellets down range.  YMMV, but you're not burning powder and so on, so... easy does it.  But the initial clean and polish is worth the small amount of time it takes IMHO.

Haven't seen a springer yet that is lubed right - it seems like they're either dry or oozing.  Maybe it's just me...  A good lube requires a tear-down, so refer to tuning, above... the M34 is powerful enough that it will diesel silicone oil (sold as "chamber oil" by RWS and others).  <sigh> a whole big topic in itself.  Beeman used to sell (may still) a product for lubing the compression tube area that was moly suspended in a carrier.  It works, but it's a lot more work than is obvious to do it right and it is by far the most obnoxious form of moly I've ever used.  You WILL get it on yourself and anything you put the bottle on.. it creeps everywhere and deposits moly (which is why it works).  It's actually easier to to tear down and lube properly with moly paste conventionally than to use that stuff - if you have the tools to safely tear down (starting with a spring compressor).  About once a year I get stupid and/or lazy and hit a gun up with that suspended moly stuff... much cursing ensues...

That's enough (too much) for now... hope it makes sense to you and is of some use to you.  If you decide you don't like the M34, send it to me...  

Tom

[Woodstock]

Whoa Nellie!!!!  What a forum...thanks guys!  Looks like this really is a "when all else fails read the directions" moment.  Problem is that the directions aren't coming from Umarex!  Thank goodness for GTA & you all!!!!

I am going to take a step back and learn a little more before I jump into the scope fray.  It appears that I will need to learn about barrel droop and how much my Panther might have.  I should have known that this wouldn't be a bolt it on and forget it task.  I am a bit concerned about how high the scope will end up with all of this....my face will lose contact with the stock like it did with the Gamo I borrowed with the BSA red dot scope.

Cleaning...I started using Ballistol for my Civil War firearms (N-SSA competition) years ago and love the stuff.  I use it for all my guns, so I will continue with that for my 34.  Dissassembly...I removed the two barrel screws and the one in front of the trigger guard, but the gun will not come out of the stock easily.  I don't want to muscle it out and damage anything...what am I missing here??

After reading Tom's excellent post I watched some of PA's video's and have gained a lot of knowledge triggered by everyone's much appreciated comments.  It appears that PA is a top notch business.

Jim, after reading your post on the 4 for 3 I went back to the site and found the deal right under my nose....sent PA a note to see if they could change my order to benefit from this great deal.  Thanks for your help.

Lastly, I read about the T06 trigger (unfortunately after I made my purchase) and it seemed that my T05 is not at all liked by many.  I like mine, although it is a little on the heavy side it has no creep and breaks cleanly. 

David

[ayerstg]

David - uh, "Welcome" - I forgot that part in previous reply...

If you decide to use that UTG Weaver adapter, it adds maybe 10-12mm to height (as I recall; too nice outside to go into the dungeon and check right now).  It's fine with a 40mm objective and LOW scope rings on my M38 and it's usable with medium rings.  If I remember, I'll eyeball a measurement or two today / post a pic for you.

Tom

[JimL911]

The Panther stocks are SNUG! Hold the barrel vertical and tap the butt against your instep. This will pop it loose enough to remove the action.  The T-05 trigger is a good trigger but a tad heavy, a simple spring change makes a world of difference.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT2?PMPXNO=2709842&PMTERM=36010gs

As for droop they vary as to how much. The Leapers one for the 34 was too much for my Panther and I had to re order the no droop one. This is why I suggested the Hawke adjustable. This base and Hawke's Low Weaver rings sit about 1/4-3/8 lower than the Leapers with lowest Leapers rings. Much better cheek weld.

[Woodstock]

Jim, continued thanks.  I will live with the trigger until I feel that the rifle is fully broken in.  I went to the Hawke site:
 
http://www.hawkeoptics.com/us/mounts/adjustable_weaver.php

If I am correct it appears that this system will cost $75 plus shipping to mount the scope.  Things are beginning to add up to the price of a higher level rifle.....I can get a RWS48 for $346.....not sure that it is smart to put so much into a rifle that cost me $186. 

On your scope recommendation; it has a lot of merit, but I noticed that the scope is full size and 13" in length.  I would like to keep the scope as compact as possible...any recommendations in that regard?  Is the Leapers Bug Buster a good deal IYO? 

It is too bad that all of these guns/accessories cannot be seen first hand.  I know of no one near me that is involved in all of this.

David

[Mark 611]

As mentioned you need to see if the barrel has droop first cause some  do and some don't, the Leapers scopes and mounts work really well on most AG's, the Bug Buster scope may not give you enough travel back and forth in the mount you my have to use if you have to use a drooper, they have a very short tube between the ends of the scope, unlike standard size scopes, if not the BB scope look at the 3x9x32mm Leapers scope, their ok and will hold up if you get a good one the problems I've had with these scopes is the turrets, their cheap! unlike the 3x9x40aomd scope from Leapers which have better turrets and bigger glass which I use on most of my springer's and they have served me well! just my 2ct.

[JimL911]

Yes accessories do add up. I have a new HW77 coming and have over $500 in mounts, sights, optics and a spring kit waiting for it.
Sorry for the confusion. HM17021 is the base: http://www.hawkeoptics.com/us/mounts/bases.php
and HM1701 rings: http://www.hawkeoptics.com/us/mounts/fixed_weaver.php

Eye relief is the problem with the Bug Buster. Some have used:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/leapers-accushot-1-pc-bi-directional-offset-mount-w-1-rings-high-11mm?a=2409
But if you have droop I would get the HM17021S base if you get the Bug. The Bug Buster is said to have large dots as well.

If you want a small scope, try and find the discontinued 2-7X32 Airmax. http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Hawke/Airmax.htm
or the HAWKE Sport HD IR 2-7X32AO w/ Mil Dot IR:
http://www.opticsbestbuy.com/Hawke-Sport-HD-2-7X32-Riflescope-HK3013.html
Both are great little scopes and will focus to under 15 feet.
If you need more magnification, Burris Timberline:
http://www.opticsbestbuy.com/Burris-Timberline-4.5-14x32-Scope-Ballistic-Plex-PA-201344.html
I have no personal experience with the Burris, but others like it.

[Woodstock]

Jim, thanks for clearing up the rail & ring choice.  One more question;  the Leapers rail that you mentioned above....wouldn’t that be a better combo with the Hawke HM1701 rings?

My thoughts on a scope are changing and a full size is making sense to me…..I would like to purchase a scope that I can transfer to a possible (read inevitable) upgrade rifle.
  
Good luck with your new HW77….I looked at those but the $630+ price deterred me.  I also looked hard at the AATX200 MKIII. …a beautiful rifle that seems to be a 77 clone for less money.  This is worse than my handgun disease..always a better widget!

David

[JimL911]

Yes we can never stop with one. Show me someone with only one and I will show you someone just starting out.

The Leapers base:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-scope-mount-base-fits-rws-diana-34-36-38-45-with-to5-trigger?a=2298
or: https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-scope-mount-base-fits-rws-diana-48-52-54-460-magnum-with-to5?a=2297
or: https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-sub-compact-ita-red-green-dot-sight-30mm-tube-weaver-picatinny?a=3897
are solid bases but they are a tad high when rings are added. They are also fixed for compensation. I ordered the one for the 34 with my Panther and found I had little droop and had to re order the zero compensated base.

The Hawke base is lower than the Leapers and is adjustable to the amount of compensation needed. Unlike the Leapers, you can remove the front stop lug and use it on a rifle without a raised rail.

Wise decision with the scope. Look for adjustability for paralax, wether AO or side focus and multiple aim points for various distances. I like the Hawkes. The program/reticule works for various calibers as well as powder burners. Once you plug in a few numbers it shows which aim point to use for different distances and magnification. Then you can print out a range card for your scope cap. You can save each template for each caliber so just reprint when changing guns. With other aim points like Mil-Dots it is trial and error.

Just passing on some info. The ultimate decision is yours. Good luck.

[ayerstg]

Well, since we're on the topic... does anyone have a Hammerli 850 adapter you can measure?  I'd like to know how tall it is - or alternatively, how much lower it is than the UTG versions

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hammerli-850-airmagnum-11mm-to-weaver-scope-rail-w-11mm-dovetail?a=930

Thanks.

Tom

[Woodstock]

Jim...which Hawke would you suggest?  I know in PA's review of the AA TX200 MKIII they used a Sidewinder, but that is more than I care to spend at the moment.  The way things are going with all of my reading I may end up with an up grade much sooner than later.  Even made a trip to the gun safe to ponder what I am not shooting and $4.5k shotgun jumped out......decisions, decisions!

David

[JimL911]

Yes the Sidewinders look nice, but I don't shoot FT and there is only so much I can hide from the wife. I have the 3-9X 40 Airmax on my Panther and it fits. Not obscenely large. I have the Panorama waiting for a gun. By all accounts basically the new Airmax EV with an illuminated reticule. For 95% of my shooting I don't need the illumination but the MAP 6 dots are fine and sometimes I loose them against black feathers. For an extra ~ $20 I would look at the Panorama.

[ac12]

The Diana 48 is a heavy rifle with a high cocking effort.
It was too much effort for me to cock so I passed on it.