Optimal scope height study



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Offline Scotchmo

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2018, 11:55:24 PM »
My scope is 2.6 in high.  That’s from center barrel to center scope.  Part of the equation for me is a comfortable head position, and as Hector said “ not too “tippy”.  Some of the Brits experimenting with very high scopes have come back down a bit.

Greg

2.6" is looking good.
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Offline ToRmEnToR

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2018, 04:58:15 AM »
Looking at the fx impact. That's gotta be around 3"+. People are taking championships and 150yd shots without much of an issue.

Offline Scotchmo

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2018, 08:06:08 PM »
Looking at the fx impact. That's gotta be around 3"+. People are taking championships and 150yd shots without much of an issue.

150 yards is way beyond field target distances.

If shooting in a competition that has a single predetermined target distance, trajectory vs scope height is not an issue.
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Online Bryan H.

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2018, 09:21:17 PM »
Looking at the fx impact. That's gotta be around 3"+. People are taking championships and 150yd shots without much of an issue.

Tall scopes don't really show their disadvantages at long range.  Close range, and vertical shots, you begin to see why a hunter is better off with a low scope.  If your nearest shot is 20 yards, it won't matter.  Like shooting prarie dogs or something.  But hunting small game, you are typically looking at 30-40 yards max and often around 10 yards or so on squirrels and cottontails.  Plus the shots at tree squirrels...  let's just say I've never felt handicapped by open sights.  They sit low to the bore and are crystal clear.
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Offline ToRmEnToR

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2018, 06:13:10 PM »
I hear ya guys. Just saying. Low bore height isn't the cat's meow. As far as optimal. I don't know if there is such a thing, unless you dedicate a rifle for certain purposes.

Online Bryan H.

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2018, 06:19:36 PM »
I hear ya guys. Just saying. Low bore height isn't the cat's meow. As far as optimal. I don't know if there is such a thing, unless you dedicate a rifle for certain purposes.

If you could get the features and clarity of your favorite scope with a large objective, in a package lower to the bore, would you take it?

Other than long range shots on vermin, or maximizing the use of your point blank range in competition, in my humble opinion low bore height IS the cat's meow.

Plenty of large obj scopes cut out low to the bore btw, but typically on the high end.
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Offline ToRmEnToR

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2018, 06:33:31 PM »
Ok. The 'other than' part of paragraph says what I'm talking about. And EBR guys would disagree with you from what I've gathered.

Shooting p dawgs with high scope it was nice to be able to not change any scope setting from 30-70y to nail the suckers before they move.

But hey, don't be mad at me. Just joining the conversation  ;)

Offline ToRmEnToR

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2018, 06:35:00 PM »
I DO run every PB rifle i have with ultra low scope height. You prob know why.

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2018, 06:56:41 PM »
I'm not mad, I'm just havin' fun.  If I were not sidleined right now, I'd spend a lot less time on the forum and a lot more time putting meat in the freezer

Have not filled a single tag this year.  Haven't even been in the woods since the season started, and missed most of the spawn this year too.  I want a deer so bad I can literally taste it.  Would kill to have some fresh catfish too.
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Offline ToRmEnToR

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2018, 07:00:46 PM »
Right on. I just bought 22 acres near Canadian border. So much sign, it was ridiculous. I went there on opening day and nothing. I think they were higher up the mountain. Good luck landing something!

Offline ToRmEnToR

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2018, 07:07:32 PM »
I was out in Fayetteville about twenty years ago. My back yard was literally ft Bragg. Now my back yard is literally JBLM. Go figure.

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2018, 07:27:59 PM »
I love Bragg.  It is a shame how many pass theough here and never experience the hunting or especially the fishing.  I caught all my PR catfish here and broke it several times.  Daughters 1st largemouth bass is bigger than my PR.  She caught it in the little pond off Butner road... not sure if that was here back then.  McFayden Pond.
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Offline Scotchmo

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2018, 07:30:20 PM »
I hear ya guys. Just saying. Low bore height isn't the cat's meow. As far as optimal. I don't know if there is such a thing, unless you dedicate a rifle for certain purposes.

This study was more for a dedicated Field Target rifle. Currently using it to explore the "optimal" for rifle dedicated to a single FT class (WFTF). And maybe to a single type of course (Worlds).
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Offline ToRmEnToR

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2018, 09:42:40 PM »
The D48 I compete HFT with it's 2.38 height. Not WFTF but i get it.

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2018, 11:26:32 PM »
Scott,
In the last few days been fooling around with my WFTF rig after stacking some risers under the mounts until at @ 2.8"
The first thing noticed ( yea I'm long necked ) is a slightly less slumped / cramped shooting position while in "Deadman" .... which was a relief being a non Yoga guy  :P

Second was CANT .. O'my what a critical exercise that turned into finding very quickly that the increase in scope height to bore C/L would really skew pellets left / right if the bubble level was not dead nutz level when shot was taken  :o

So for at least me coming from Hunter class and low scope position stabilized via seat / sticks ... now shooting Deadman being the only way found to get as stable of sight picture, Wierd azz scope view now being sideways, no cheek weld, gun elevated via hamster resting on body parts, high X mag optics etc  :-\ :-\

THERE IS SO MUCH NEEDING TO BE ADDRESSED PRIOR TO TAKING SHOT NOW ... compounded by being in constant battle with keeping "LEVEL" really is a challenge that eats up time and wears on my concentration efforts.

I'm finding / thinking I would rather be slightly more slumped over having the lower scope height and ease in keeping level over some small trajectory advantage of the higher position.

Jury's still out tho and  just sharing personal observations on said subject  as i too explore this subject.

Scott S
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Offline Scotchmo

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2018, 11:58:39 PM »
Scott,
In the last few days been fooling around with my WFTF rig after stacking some risers under the mounts until at @ 2.8"
The first thing noticed ( yea I'm long necked ) is a slightly less slumped / cramped shooting position while in "Deadman" .... which was a relief being a non Yoga guy  :P

Second was CANT .. O'my what a critical exercise that turned into finding very quickly that the increase in scope height to bore C/L would really skew pellets left / right if the bubble level was not dead nutz level when shot was taken  :o

So for at least me coming from Hunter class and low scope position stabilized via seat / sticks ... now shooting Deadman being the only way found to get as stable of sight picture, Wierd azz scope view now being sideways, no cheek weld, gun elevated via hamster resting on body parts, high X mag optics etc  :-\ :-\

THERE IS SO MUCH NEEDING TO BE ADDRESSED PRIOR TO TAKING SHOT NOW ... compounded by being in constant battle with keeping "LEVEL" really is a challenge that eats up time and wears on my concentration efforts.

I'm finding / thinking I would rather be slightly more slumped over having the lower scope height and ease in keeping level over some small trajectory advantage of the higher position.

Jury's still out tho and  just sharing personal observations on said subject  as i too explore this subject.

Scott S

If your bubble is not level, the pellet will go left or right on far shots, especially with a slow/low-bc projectile that has lots of drop at that distance. The amount of "skew" is dependent on pellet drop and degrees of cant. Scope height does not enter into the equation. As Hector said earlier - a high scope is more "tippy", so it is harder to hold the rifle vertical. Compound that with a high hamster, and the rifle no longer wants to rest naturally in the vertical position.

That's one reason why I prefer everything as low as possible for whatever shot will allow it. I'm only looking into a higher scope as a means to shift my point blank range farther out. And even that is only beneficial on some courses. So I decided on a compromise of 2.6" for now.

Yes- same as you. Any time I start using a new position, new equipment, etc.  it seems I need to address so much more. First inclination is just go back to what I was accustomed to. But it gets easier once it becomes my most used position. Bucket and sticks, prone, and the yoga position, all took some getting used to. Whatever position that I use the most always becomes my preferred position, and it does not seem to matter what the position is.

I don't think you need a 2.8" high scope for WFTF Division on AAFTA courses. 2" to 2.5" is probably better.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 12:03:23 AM by Scotchmo »
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2018, 01:02:25 PM »
Thanks, Scott H for the reply and the discussion.
It has been an interesting discussion, specially because in the end, I THINK, the conclusion is that the SHOOTABILITY of the rig is more important than the technological advantages of some aspects of it.
Of course, shootability improves with practice, LOL! This will probably be noticed by Scott S. soon.

Keep well and shoot straight!


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Online Bryan H.

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2018, 01:52:49 PM »
Scott,
In the last few days been fooling around with my WFTF rig after stacking some risers under the mounts until at @ 2.8"
The first thing noticed ( yea I'm long necked ) is a slightly less slumped / cramped shooting position while in "Deadman" .... which was a relief being a non Yoga guy  :P

Second was CANT .. O'my what a critical exercise that turned into finding very quickly that the increase in scope height to bore C/L would really skew pellets left / right if the bubble level was not dead nutz level when shot was taken  :o

So for at least me coming from Hunter class and low scope position stabilized via seat / sticks ... now shooting Deadman being the only way found to get as stable of sight picture, Wierd azz scope view now being sideways, no cheek weld, gun elevated via hamster resting on body parts, high X mag optics etc  :-\ :-\

THERE IS SO MUCH NEEDING TO BE ADDRESSED PRIOR TO TAKING SHOT NOW ... compounded by being in constant battle with keeping "LEVEL" really is a challenge that eats up time and wears on my concentration efforts.

I'm finding / thinking I would rather be slightly more slumped over having the lower scope height and ease in keeping level over some small trajectory advantage of the higher position.

Jury's still out tho and  just sharing personal observations on said subject  as i too explore this subject.

Scott S

If your bubble is not level, the pellet will go left or right on far shots, especially with a slow/low-bc projectile that has lots of drop at that distance. The amount of "skew" is dependent on pellet drop and degrees of cant. Scope height does not enter into the equation. As Hector said earlier - a high scope is more "tippy", so it is harder to hold the rifle vertical. Compound that with a high hamster, and the rifle no longer wants to rest naturally in the vertical position.

That's one reason why I prefer everything as low as possible for whatever shot will allow it. I'm only looking into a higher scope as a means to shift my point blank range farther out. And even that is only beneficial on some courses. So I decided on a compromise of 2.6" for now.

Yes- same as you. Any time I start using a new position, new equipment, etc.  it seems I need to address so much more. First inclination is just go back to what I was accustomed to. But it gets easier once it becomes my most used position. Bucket and sticks, prone, and the yoga position, all took some getting used to. Whatever position that I use the most always becomes my preferred position, and it does not seem to matter what the position is.

I don't think you need a 2.8" high scope for WFTF Division on AAFTA courses. 2" to 2.5" is probably better.

With greater distance between the bore and the line of sight, does it not move the rifle further laterally from the line of sight at a given amount of cant?
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Offline Motorhead

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2018, 02:17:46 PM »
Scott,
In the last few days been fooling around with my WFTF rig after stacking some risers under the mounts until at @ 2.8"
The first thing noticed ( yea I'm long necked ) is a slightly less slumped / cramped shooting position while in "Deadman" .... which was a relief being a non Yoga guy  :P

Second was CANT .. O'my what a critical exercise that turned into finding very quickly that the increase in scope height to bore C/L would really skew pellets left / right if the bubble level was not dead nutz level when shot was taken  :o

So for at least me coming from Hunter class and low scope position stabilized via seat / sticks ... now shooting Deadman being the only way found to get as stable of sight picture, Wierd azz scope view now being sideways, no cheek weld, gun elevated via hamster resting on body parts, high X mag optics etc  :-\ :-\

THERE IS SO MUCH NEEDING TO BE ADDRESSED PRIOR TO TAKING SHOT NOW ... compounded by being in constant battle with keeping "LEVEL" really is a challenge that eats up time and wears on my concentration efforts.

I'm finding / thinking I would rather be slightly more slumped over having the lower scope height and ease in keeping level over some small trajectory advantage of the higher position.

Jury's still out tho and  just sharing personal observations on said subject  as i too explore this subject.

Scott S

If your bubble is not level, the pellet will go left or right on far shots, especially with a slow/low-bc projectile that has lots of drop at that distance. The amount of "skew" is dependent on pellet drop and degrees of cant. Scope height does not enter into the equation. As Hector said earlier - a high scope is more "tippy", so it is harder to hold the rifle vertical. Compound that with a high hamster, and the rifle no longer wants to rest naturally in the vertical position.

That's one reason why I prefer everything as low as possible for whatever shot will allow it. I'm only looking into a higher scope as a means to shift my point blank range farther out. And even that is only beneficial on some courses. So I decided on a compromise of 2.6" for now.

Yes- same as you. Any time I start using a new position, new equipment, etc.  it seems I need to address so much more. First inclination is just go back to what I was accustomed to. But it gets easier once it becomes my most used position. Bucket and sticks, prone, and the yoga position, all took some getting used to. Whatever position that I use the most always becomes my preferred position, and it does not seem to matter what the position is.

I don't think you need a 2.8" high scope for WFTF Division on AAFTA courses. 2" to 2.5" is probably better.

With greater distance between the bore and the line of sight, does it not move the rifle further laterally from the line of sight at a given amount of cant?

Pretty sure this is true and the "why for" of my statement .. just the slightest cant the POI  much more so shifted sideways much greater than the same cant dd with my more typical  lower "hunter scope height"
Either that or I'm nutz
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Online Bryan H.

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Re: Optimal scope height study
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2018, 02:46:46 PM »
I agree.
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