Congrats to Jim Cyran!



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Offline Gear_Junkie

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Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« on: September 24, 2018, 01:33:46 PM »
Jim got 2nd place at the PA Cup in the Hunter PCP Class.  1st - 4th place were all separated by 1 shot each in a field of over 45 entrants - what a tight spread!

More info here:

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/first-day-results-from-the-pyramyd-air-cup/

Congrats Jim, great job!
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Offline gokidd

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2018, 03:27:45 PM »
Jim got 2nd place at the PA Cup in the Hunter PCP Class.  1st - 4th place were all separated by 1 shot each in a field of over 45 entrants - what a tight spread!

WhooHOOOOO!
Great results, Jimmy C!!
Hey. I know that guy.
B
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Offline Motorhead

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2018, 04:01:33 PM »
Outstanding showing ... Great job JIMMY !!
1 shot huh ? ... there is a story there I'm sure  ;D
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Offline TleVta

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2018, 04:25:05 PM »
Well Done, Jim.
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Offline Scotchmo

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2018, 04:43:43 PM »
Second out of a very strong field of Hunter Division shooters. Great shooting Jim, - but if only just one more point... ;)

I noticed that a lot of the Hunter Division shooters got awarded one or two extra points after day 1. I assume that a target was pulled after the match. The hit rate on the target seemed to have a strong correlation to the shooters final score, as it should. A good number of shooters missed it both times. About half the shooters knocked it down at least once. A few people knocked it down twice. Notice that the top 4 shooters all knocked it down both times (that's fortunate as it did not affect final standings in this case). Does anyone know why the target was pulled? And what type of target?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 05:13:55 PM by Scotchmo »
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Offline JKC

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2018, 05:34:04 PM »
All hail to the chief!!  ;D

Offline Frank in Fairfield

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2018, 10:21:35 PM »
And.....we all know who tuned his rifle, don’t we?
Kudos Jim & Scott...
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Offline 22Jim

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2018, 01:32:43 AM »
Quote from: Scotchmo

I noticed that a lot of the Hunter Division shooters got awarded one or two extra points after day 1. I assume that a target was pulled after the match. The hit rate on the target seemed to have a strong correlation to the shooters final score, as it should. A good number of shooters missed it both times. About half the shooters knocked it down at least once. A few people knocked it down twice. Notice that the top 4 shooters all knocked it down both times (that's fortunate as it did not affect final standings in this case). Does anyone know why the target was pulled? And what type of target?

I'm not sure which target was pulled on day one. It was on the red course and was probably a Gamo as most of the targets were Gamos or Air Venturis. I was not aware of the this until looking at the final scores on Sunday. Another target was pulled on the white course on Saturday but was done before the scores were tallied and was included in the day one postings. Sunday shooters were awarded 2 points for the target. I don't know why that target was pulled either.

Another situation arose on the white course on Sunday when a target was pulled off center during he course of the match and presented an angled face plate and KZ to the shooters. A few shooters protested the target claiming it was an illegal target as the angle presented a reduced KZ diameter. (those protesting missed shots on the target). When our group shot the lane we dropped it 6 of 8 shots it was a 50 yd+ target. When I heard of the protest I talked to Tyler about removing targets from a match on technicalities and the impact it can have on match results. I reminded him that every one shot the same target and the results should stand. After the match he went out and inspected the target, found there were no gaps in the KZ that would let a pellet through and then tested the target with a target tester at an angle. The target functioned correctly and was left in the match as shot. The correct decision in my opinion.

Jim in Sacramento
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Offline Scotchmo

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2018, 02:38:21 AM »
...
I'm not sure which target was pulled on day one. It was on the red course and was probably a Gamo....Another target was pulled on the white course on Saturday.... I don't know why that target was pulled either

Another situation arose on the white course on Sunday when a target was pulled off center during he course of the match and presented an angled face plate and KZ to the shooters. A few shooters protested the target claiming it was an illegal target as the angle presented a reduced KZ diameter. (those protesting missed shots on the target)...

Jim in Sacramento

I wonder why they are pulling targets when the marshal has a target tester. Any protester could call the marshal who would test the target and replace it immediately if needed. Integrity of the scores are maintained and it prevents delays at the end of the match since scores do not need to be adjusted.

Pertaining to targets that are not compliant for some other reason - call a marshal. As long as the target is square within +/- 5 degrees, it should stay in play. If the shooter thinks a target has been pulled out of alignment, call the marshal to straighten it out.

I'm hoping that AAFTA defines some procedures so that scores aren't always being adjusted after the match is over. Since these adjustments are not done transparently (not documented), we don't really know the extent of it. When it happens, it lessens the integrity of the scores.

Leaving the target in play is always better. But if they had pulled that angled target, you might have gotten 1st in Hunter. Or did you hit it both times?  ;D
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 02:44:04 AM by Scotchmo »
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Offline 22Jim

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2018, 10:37:27 AM »
Quote from: Scotchmo
Pertaining to targets that are not compliant for some other reason - call a marshal. As long as the target is square within +/- 5 degrees, it should stay in play. If the shooter thinks a target has been pulled out of alignment, call the marshal to straighten it out.

I'm hoping that AAFTA defines some procedures so that scores aren't always being adjusted after the match is over. Since these adjustments are not done transparently (not documented), we don't really know the extent of it. When it happens, it lessens the integrity of the scores.

Leaving the target in play is always better. But if they had pulled that angled target, you might have gotten 1st in Hunter. Or did you hit it both times?  ;D

I hit the suspect target both times. I did not gain any points for the match from pulled targets other than the two points awarded before the match started on Sunday for a target pulled from competition on Saturday.

The angled target was an interesting situation as the angle off center increased over the course of the match. At the start of the match it was probably off only a few degrees and made little difference by the end of the day it was obviously angled and did present a more difficult shot. Tyler felt that once the target had been engaged in the match he could not change it, so his only options were to leave it or remove it from the match. As I stated I think he made the right decision as had he pulled it it would have affected the standings. In looking back I think the best solution would have been to inspect the target and make an adjustment to keep the target from rotating further. In the end I think the vast majority of shooters felt he made the right decision.

As to protesting targets this was a difficult match to do so. Saturday was a very windy day so within about two or three lanes the face plates and KZ's were pretty shot up. I for one could not determine if I had hit the KZ as there were a large number of targets in the 42-55 yard range, meaning you had to have a large ego to claim you hit a 52 yard, shot up target in the wind and it didn't fall. I'd love to know what the situation was on the pulled targets. There were one or two targets replaced during the match because of mechanical failures. All in all it was a very well run match and one of my favorite GP events. Pyramyd and the airgun community step up big time to make this an outstanding event.

Jim in Sacramento
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Offline John E.

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2018, 10:47:17 AM »
First off, great shooting Jim. I'm glad we got to shoot together on Sunday. As for the top six(maybe 8 ) shooters in Hunter none were awarded points from day one as we knocked over any protested targets twice. If you look at the score boards(posted elsewhere) there were no corrections made to our scores. It was tight race.

Offline John E.

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2018, 10:48:03 AM »
dp

Offline Tpatner412

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2018, 11:01:25 AM »
A few things:

1) Jim, great seeing you and great shooting.  Really well done my friend. 

2) The targets that were pulled (one on Saturday, one Sunday) were done so because of mounting issues that ended up causing function problems, the mountings had shifted either from shooters pulling them up violently or from the condensation build up overnight causing slippage, or both.  By the time I was alerted to them, too many people had already shot the target to make a change.  If I had altered the targets position, then I'd have had to let those that already shot it while it was askew re-shoot the target.  And at that point, it's a guessing game as to when during the match it actually happened, and who actually deserves to re-shoot.  I'm less inclined to do that because of time constraints.  For what it's worth, I don't believe the target influenced the outcome of the match, as the top 3 finishers in Hunter all hit it twice from what I recall, though I could be wrong.  It may have lessened the gap between them, but I don't believe it changed the outcome.  On Sunday, there were two targets that had moved on their blocks only one was given because it did not pass the target tester and also had a large gap where daylight could be seen out of the side of the kill zone.  The other target tested fine (as Jim said) even at the angle shooters were hitting it from, and had no gap between the hole in the face and the paddle...because of that, the target was kept in play. 

3) Re: Target Protest procedure.  There is a section in the rules about this, though I agree with you that it is something that needs to be better defined going forward, maybe you want to help with that Scott?  I was very clear (or I thought I was) in what I told the shooters at the match briefing with regards to how protests would be handled and did my best to stick to that throughout the match.  I tested every target that was protested after each day of shooting.  I don't believe the worlds style procedure is the best either (which you are suggesting), just based on my experience with it in Poland. 

4) About half of the targets were Air Venturi Rats, had zero function issues with them.  There were only two Gamo's on the course, and they are old style targets without the nut securing the faceplate to the paddle arm.  There were two targets that failed during the match (broke and could no longer function) one was a 20 year old stoutenberg that now needs a new weld where the paddle connects to the face, and the other was a 20+ year old Frank Turner target that requires the new welding to secure the target to the base.  It happens and it's an easy fix as we had plenty of extra targets on hand.   



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Offline 22Jim

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2018, 11:24:01 AM »
Thank you everyone for your kind words. I am extremely happy with my performance knowing that in a major match of this caliber and size only 4 people shot a higher score than I did (and I think two of them are bionic). I was proud to carry the flag for our West Coast shooters.

First let me congratulate Sean, he shot a great match and deserved the Hunter win. We shot in the same squad on Sunday and he was as steady as could be. Every time I would make a mistake, he would capitalize on it. Without a lot of rehashing shoulda's, coulda's and woulda's the match came down to the last lane for me, the offhand lane. I knew I had to clean the lane to have a chance I was down two points overall to Sean at that point, and I had just watched Dennis who was right behind me hit 3 of 4 on the lane. The second target was about a 32 yd, uphill shot with a 1.5 KZ. I hit my shots on the close target and missed my 3rd shot but hit my 4th. Sean as expected hit hit his first two shots sealing the win, his final two misses meant nothing. I was very pleased with my forced position shooting hitting 6 of 8 on Sunday and 11 of 16 for the match.

How about the Hunter Class  8) 8). 52 shooters shot in the PCP class and another 14 Piston shooters, that represents over two thirds of the field. You think we are on to something here?

Again a big thank you to Pyramyd for sponsoring this match and to all he great people who support it. If we want to see our sport grow we are going to need help from the vendors and manufacturers. Three of the largest and most popular matches are now sponsored by vendors, Crosman, Pyramyd and Airguns of Arizona. Please support them.

Jim in Sacramento
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Offline 22Jim

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2018, 11:39:53 AM »
Quote from: Tpatner412

I tested every target that was protested after each day of shooting.  I don't believe the worlds style procedure is the best either (which you are suggesting), just based on my experience with it in Poland. 


Tyler, first let me say thank you for a an extremely well run match. You and our staff did an excellent job, I wouldn't have changed a thing. In such a large match you are going to have equipment issues (each target was shot over 200 times over two days). Throw in a torrential down pour Friday night and you have the potential for a mess. You passed with flying colors. You and Pyramyd are incredible emissaries for our sport.

Thank you!
Jim in Sacramento
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Offline 22Jim

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Re: Congrats to Jim Cyran!
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2018, 11:48:15 AM »
First off, great shooting Jim. I'm glad we got to shoot together on Sunday. As for the top six(maybe 8 ) shooters in Hunter none were awarded points from day one as we knocked over any protested targets twice. If you look at the score boards(posted elsewhere) there were no corrections made to our scores. It was tight race.

John it was a pleasure shooting with you, what a fun and competitive match it was. I thought the scores you and Sean shot on Saturday were outstanding, what tough conditions. I think everyone of the top 6 or 8 shooters in Hunter PCP can think of enough shots they missed that would have made a big difference in the final standings. What a great group of people and what outstanding shooters.

Good luck at the Nats!
Jim in Sacramento
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