Is This Really The Kind Of Representation American Airgunners Need?

[Taso1000]

Even the “group” that Sig has partnered in forming is designed to help generate sales.

“So we worked with game officials and legislators in New Hampshire to amend a bill to allow hunting of small game with air rifles, such as the new SIG ASP20 break barrel air rifle.”

“The bill legalizes small game hunting with air rifles having a caliber of .22 or larger. The minimum Muzzle Energy required is 12 Ft/Lbs.”
^^^^^^
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Gee... I wonder where they got the idea for 12Ft/Lbs...?


“A primary focus of the Airgun Sporting Association is to strengthen relationships between state wildlife agencies and representatives of the airgun industry.”

Nowhere in their schpiel are they concerning themselves with the shooter. It’s marketing, and nothing more.

This!  Nice find DL!  No mention of hunters or airgun enthusiasts is damning. 

Taso

[Kallysan]

Just one thing to point out...Black Powder will always be more powerful than any PCP.  Currently if a Black Powder gun can not accept or be readily changed to accept cartridges, the ATF does not consider them to be Firearms.  That said why are we worried that the Gov't will all of a sudden start regulating Air Guns?  The criminal is going to buy a $100 Black Powder way before they are going to shell out >$1k for a Big Bore PCP and the means to fill it.

Big Bore PCPs are not CHEAP!  They are an excellent way to reengage with hunting after becoming bored due to mordern PBs shooting sub-MOA out of the box.

The more people we have hunting/shooting Air Guns the better.  I am constantly opening the eyes of non-owners as to the possibilities of the modern air gun.  I don't care who helps to get laws changed, just that they are changed.

[Killo Coonadillo]

That said why are we worried that the Gov't will all of a sudden start regulating Air Guns?  The criminal is going to buy a $100 Black Powder way before they are going to shell out >$1k for a Big Bore PCP and the means to fill it.

True but playing the devil's advocate, aren't air-rifles considered the red-head step-child of rifles?

[cobalt327]

Before big bore PCPs, air guns were largely synonymous with BB guns. And to a lot of people they still are. Once the word gets out how powerful they can be, things may change.

[Kallysan]

Before big bore PCPs, air guns were largely synonymous with BB guns. And to a lot of people they still are. Once the word gets out how powerful they can be, things may change.

Black Powder was responsible for nearly wiping out the Buffalo, which takes a lot of Power.  No Anti-gunner I know of has ever had a problem with Black Powder.  Heck a Convicted Felon can legally own and shoot one, because they are not "Firearms".   

I don't think its the power that scares people.  I think its fast repeated use of the power. 

I don't think most Anti-gunners think of hunting guns as "bad guns", their Dad, Grandpa, Uncle, etc had hunting guns.  What scares most of them are the "Evil Black Guns" that can hold and shoot 30+ rounds.  So I think, if we can get it in their heads that Big Bore PCPs are "Hunting Guns" we won't have a problem.  The Feds couldn't careless as they are not Firearms, so we have to worry about Local Gov't which is a lot easier to show the truth too and educate.  The more people using airguns the easier this will be.  Local Reps tend to listen to their constitutes fairly well. 

Anytime I bring up Big Bore PCP in conversation, I always get asked "why would you want to Hunt with one of those instead of a normal gun?"  I have never had anyone freak out about how powerful they are.  Single shot = hunting = no threat.

Then I really blow their minds when I tell them about Lewis and Clark having a Big Bore PCP way back then.

[Frankly]

Seems like it's going to be hard to address issues when you can't openly discuss them. But rampant censorship of all things is normalized now.

That said, the entire notion of going to big bore airguns seems nonsensical to me. They can be just as powerful as a powder burner but at 10x the price and 10x the hassle. If I want to knock something down from 300 yards away it's a lot more efficient for me to take a $300 Walmart Ruger American out and go bang. So why are we buying into the bigger is better idea? I suppose it's better if you sell them but personally I'd rather they invest their energy into making some really nice low speed quiet backyard guns than trying to match the ballistics of a 5-cent 22lr round.

Haven't we been doing the equivalent of arms races forever... bigger canons, bigger bombs, faster airplanes, etc. Why wreck a perfectly great recreational sport that normalizes a healthy fun activity and provides an entry point to shooting sports for many youth?

My 1000 yard 6.5 Creedmoor rig is a lot of fun to shoot but there aren't many ranges nearby. I get just as much pleasure from shooting my air pistol in the basement and I'd hate to see the regulators step in and diminish it.

[Wildcatter]

100 million deaths in 100 years = socialism.  Humans are a tremendously flawed species.  The ideas behind both communism and socialism aren't necessarily bad ideas, they're just not practical ideas to the human race as born out by history.

[nervoustrigger]

Kally, I agree that single shot, low velocity (compared to powderburners) airguns represent nowhere near the danger in a bad guy’s hands...and no doubt one of the key reasons they aren’t a tool of choice by criminals.  In fact, vastly more violent crimes are committed with knives, something which is much easier to acquire.  Meanwhile we already have places I the US where airgun purchases are regulated like firearms, so unfortunately logic has very little bearing on the outcome.  There is a small but vocal subset of our population that views all guns as bad and the effect shows up in inane legislation like that.

[Relentless Holiday]

Back to the original question. I have to agree that any light on airguns in the hallowed halls of our lawmakers is one more step toward the day I will be taxed in the form of an airgun permit.  It used to be that in MA you did need the same license as for PBs. That ended back in the 80's. Unfortunately it's gonna happen again in places.  It's when for some...not if.

I'd much rather we were never discussed at all. And certainly see any firearms maker bringing attention to my hobby as negative.

[DevilsLuck]

Back to the original question. I have to agree that any light on airguns in the hallowed halls of our lawmakers is one more step toward the day I will be taxed in the form of an airgun permit.  It used to be that in MA you did need the same license as for PBs. That ended back in the 80's. Unfortunately it's gonna happen again in places.  It's when for some...not if.

I'd much rather we were never discussed at all. And certainly see any firearms maker bringing attention to my hobby as negative.

I agree. But for it to be a foreign manufacturer, meddling in local government, for the purpose of sales... While claiming to do it on behalf of “hunters”... Which hunters? Name them or their groups whom have asked this of you, Sig Sauer. Oh... That’s right. No one did...

[only1harry]

Back to the original question. I have to agree that any light on airguns in the hallowed halls of our lawmakers is one more step toward the day I will be taxed in the form of an airgun permit.  It used to be that in MA you did need the same license as for PBs. That ended back in the 80's. Unfortunately it's gonna happen again in places.  It's when for some...not if.

There is at least 1 state that requires a FOID to purchase an air gun and that is New Jersey.  It's been like that for a very long time though, and it was for both air pistols and air rifles until recently.  In 2013 they passed legislation allowing the purchase of an air rifle without a FOID or rifle license, and made it legal to hunt small game with (.177 & 22 cal. only).  They still require a firearm/handgun license to purchase or possess an air pistol in NJ, and they are not legal to hunt.

Harry

[Killo Coonadillo]

So I think, if we can get it in their heads that Big Bore PCPs are "Hunting Guns" we won't have a problem.  The Feds couldn't careless as they are not Firearms, so we have to worry about Local Gov't which is a lot easier to show the truth too and educate.  The more people using airguns the easier this will be.  Local Reps tend to listen to their constitutes fairly well. 

Remember my Red-Head, step-child remark?

Here's the main problem, there are politicians that want to ban any kind of rifle of any description.
There are States that may want to count them as firearms.
Then some of them realize people are using air rifles in towns and cities.
Then they realize airgunners have no lobbyists.
Then they decide they don't have much to lose if they target this segment.

Really though as I mentioned before, I am not worried about my State or those surrounding it.
But I am sure there are States and Cities or Towns where there it is a concern.

[Relentless Holiday]

Back to the original question. I have to agree that any light on airguns in the hallowed halls of our lawmakers is one more step toward the day I will be taxed in the form of an airgun permit.  It used to be that in MA you did need the same license as for PBs. That ended back in the 80's. Unfortunately it's gonna happen again in places.  It's when for some...not if.

I'd much rather we were never discussed at all. And certainly see any firearms maker bringing attention to my hobby as negative.

I agree. But for it to be a foreign manufacturer, meddling in local government, for the purpose of sales... While claiming to do it on behalf of “hunters”... Which hunters? Name them or their groups whom have asked this of you, Sig Sauer. Oh... That’s right. No one did...

Didn't cross my mind it was a foreign co. too.  But I guarantee if they spent a dime on it they expect way more back if it passes.

I didn't know NJ was so crazy either.

Like someone said way back in this...have the fun while there is fun to be had.

[LTU-013]

I think the good thing is AG are still not powerful enough to use by criminals
way too expensive and complicated, compared to firearms

The bad - we don't have huge manufacturers or NRA with deep pockets to lobby lawmakers

We should enjoy that - a lot of countries are really jealous and limited to small calibers and very low power

[HueAirgun]

I think the good thing is AG are still not powerful enough to use by criminals
way too expensive and complicated, compared to firearms

The bad - we don't have huge manufacturers or NRA with deep pockets to lobby lawmakers

We should enjoy that - a lot of countries are really jealous and limited to small calibers and very low power

Some gang tried to rob a bank here in Brazil. They had one AT44, one Sumatra, one HT80 and a few B19 variants and maybe 2 P17s. Oh boy, when the cops arrived with firearms, those criminals knew they had no chance