Do any of the former "Big 3" employees frequent this forum?

[avator]

A few things have changed over at Crosman in just the past year, they recently got sold again so I hear. Hopefully through some recent contact I will be able to pass along some ideas to them. Looks as though the  guy in charge is on the ball. I'm expecting something new from them in the mail sometime this week and hope to report back here soon. 

Dana..
I think I read that they were bought by a management company. Probably not going to see much change in the innovation department.

[YEMX]

We are just irrelevant to their future...  If they made what we want it would be incredibly expense and attract a very small market.

Oh I dunno...  I think our interests run the gamut... I mean, our interests and builds spawn from the available market.  I see a most beneficial relationship between us and the manufacturers.  If they would listen (I'm talking to YOU Crosman, about the Fortitude!)...  WE are the market...  Or at least, it is we who keeps the market going.  It's certainly not the average kid getting a bb gun.  It's also not the company/engineers themselves- how many of them do you think are actually interested in airgus?  The manufacturers would be remiss if they completely ignored what is being discussed here, and other forums.  I'm sure they're here, lurking in the shadows... gathering ideas and such. 

If a company were smart, they would have a section dedicated to directly interacting with people on the forums.  I think that would go a long way to drive the market forward, and give the customers a warm-and-fuzzy with regards to the company/customer relationship.  Improvements and innovations would come about faster, that's for sure!

[45flint]

We are just irrelevant to their future...  If they made what we want it would be incredibly expense and attract a very small market.

Oh I dunno...  I think our interests run the gamut... I mean, our interests and builds spawn from the available market.  I see a most beneficial relationship between us and the manufacturers.  If they would listen (I'm talking to YOU Crosman, about the Fortitude!)...  WE are the market...  Or at least, it is we who keeps the market going.  It's certainly not the average kid getting a bb gun.  It's also not the company/engineers themselves- how many of them do you think are actually interested in airgus?  The manufacturers would be remiss if they completely ignored what is being discussed here, and other forums.  I'm sure they're here, lurking in the shadows... gathering ideas and such. 

If a company were smart, they would have a section dedicated to directly interacting with people on the forums.  I think that would go a long way to drive the market forward, and give the customers a warm-and-fuzzy with regards to the company/customer relationship.  Improvements and innovations would come about faster, that's for sure!

An example where it runs well look at North American Arms.  They run their own forum the President of the company will come on at times.  He definitely reads every post.

[ezman604]

I’m betting Crosman avoids “Vintage” forums like this like the plague... we long for the days when they made steel and wood master pieces that weren’t packing enough plastic to build a Leggo castle, when parts were cheap and ez to get, and getting a good barrel wasn’t a krap-shoot.

Oh, not to mention the innovative, old Co2 designs that are still the Wonder of the civilized world.

Those glory days are gone forever. I’d imagine them reading a DT Fletcher book and crying themselves to sleep

We are just irrelevant to their future. They have to plan for what will attract enough future buyers to keep them in business and make a profit.  If they made what we want it would be incredibly expense and attract a very small market. 

For the most part, I agree. The company is more focused on profit, not on marketing or the customer base. Where I disagree is we are not a small market. WE are the customer base. But we are the end user, the big box stores are the main customers for them. Once it's ordered and shipped, they could care less. It's a shame too. Not the way things used to be. Oh well, progress??

[ezman604]

We are just irrelevant to their future...  If they made what we want it would be incredibly expense and attract a very small market.

Oh I dunno...  I think our interests run the gamut... I mean, our interests and builds spawn from the available market.  I see a most beneficial relationship between us and the manufacturers.  If they would listen (I'm talking to YOU Crosman, about the Fortitude!)...  WE are the market...  Or at least, it is we who keeps the market going.  It's certainly not the average kid getting a bb gun.  It's also not the company/engineers themselves- how many of them do you think are actually interested in airgus?  The manufacturers would be remiss if they completely ignored what is being discussed here, and other forums.  I'm sure they're here, lurking in the shadows... gathering ideas and such. 

If a company were smart, they would have a section dedicated to directly interacting with people on the forums.  I think that would go a long way to drive the market forward, and give the customers a warm-and-fuzzy with regards to the company/customer relationship.  Improvements and innovations would come about faster, that's for sure!

Totally agree and have stressed this when I made contact with them in the past. This forum, and some others, are a fantastic untapped resource for ANY airgun based company. And in my humble opinion, it's stupid to ignore such a resource. Oh well, I've tried. I extended invitations and received less than positive response. And I'm easy to get in touch with. The main page has a BIG contact forum administrator tab. I'm always open to discuss what we can do to promote our community, sport and hobby.

[mobilemail]

I guess it depends on where Crosman wants to be positioned in the market, are they making toys or quality sporting items?  I suppose if they want to build toys, the few cents they make per item on the plastic fantastic goods is fine since you don't have to sink much into research or quality control.  But if they want to make competitive sporting items that could generate an honest profit per item, they are behind in every segment of the market.  IMHO, the only things they make in today's landscape that would still be considered competitive are the Marauder and a couple of their scopes, and maybe the (utt-bugly) Bulldog...and even the Marauder design is long in the tooth in respect to modern trends and technology.

[ezman604]

Here's a couple more examples of the trend in marketing. Back a few years ago (2011) when Retay started producing airguns, we were asked to do some testing and evaluation for them. We gladly accepted the challenge and we had direct contact with the marketing department. These airguns showed GREAT promise and potential. There were just a few minor production changes that needed to be made for them to have the outstanding airgun we were DYING to get our hands on. After we gave them input, we expected to see these incorporated into the production run. And we would soon see the finished product. Well, we kept being promised there would be US distributors soon. That went on and months turned into years. Then they just went silent. Finally, when a distributor was set up in the US, we started seeing Retay airguns delivered. But, these were a FAR cry from the quality we initially saw. And communication with Retay was non-existent. I didn't give up, I had the email address of the CEO of the company and kept sending him messages. We finally got a new rep onboard GTA and were able to chat with them. But that only lasted briefly and no changes were made or promised for future production. I think Retay has faded into the night again. Especially after seeing the sub-$100 offerings on Amazon. I don't even know if they are selling there anymore. Sad, because this first batch of airguns were of a quality to rival any. Just the trend in marketing.
On the other side of the coin we have folks like Pyramyd Air. THEY, as bulk buyers, have become the main focal point of manufacturers like Crosman. THEY are now the customers, not us end users. But Pyramyd Air recognizes the potential of keeping a finger on the pulse of the market and are VERY involved with GTA Forums as well as a few others. Wise folks, in my humble opinion. They care about customers and my opinion is they focus on customer service while making enough profit to stay in business. THEY support the airgun community!!! It just seems to be the manufacturers shift in focus that I personally do not like. But it is the way of business these days.