Vortek PG2 for RWS34?

[tom96]

well after thousands of shots its time to replace the mainspring again, would the PG2 be a good choice or should i look at other springs instead? if some one could please tell velocity #s and maybe how smooth the guns shoots after the tune i would appreciate it. also if there is any thing that has to be done to allow the kit to fit in the gun.

[Onebaddj]

Highly recommend it! My 3 rws gun have them. It will make your shot cycle a solid thump instead of a twangy springy shot cycle.

I recommend getting the kit with seal. Since the guns already apart you may as well replace it. If you just want to putthe kit in you remove the trigger pull out the factory spring and maybe a piston sleeve inside the piston then slide in the pg kit. If you go with replacing the seal too make sure to debur all the holes and cocking slot. I use a dremel with the softest stone and go nice and slow.you can also use a brake cylinder hone on the compression tube. Go very slow with any power tools. Too much metal removalis jjst as bad as not enough.

After a debur new seal and pg2 kit it will be very smooth. You may lose a little velocity at first until the new seal settles in but the difference in the gun is awesome. You will be happy.

[Oilbrnr]

Would you use the lube that came with the kit, or go with JM's stuff?

Does the deburring go the whole length of the compression tube, or just near the trigger area?

thx!

[Mark 611]

When you debur the compression tube you want to start behind the compression area where the piston seal stops when its in the cocked mode where it meets the cocking slot, it looks like a round hole and it turns into a slot for the cocking arm. I dont run a tool past that for deburing, now when I hone the compression tube where the piston seal is I use a different grit set of stones {400} and a Ball flex hone in the cocking slot area of {320} and I run the {320} from the top all the way out the end of the tube it doesn't take much of either to get the results you want,  

[Mark 611]

When using a Vortek kit only use the lube that came in the kit and use some moly on the piston seal and nothing else!

[gene_sc]

Yep that is pretty much it for the tube deburing Mark. There is a technique and you must have some knowledge of the different metals and there hardness. Not all airguns are made with the same quality of metals. When I was tuning springer's it was a very carefull process doing the deburring. Fitting Seals and knowing if you have a bad tube or not. The proper stones and technique play a big role in a pro tune. Anyone can tune a springer but to do it right takes some experience and a lil knowledge about the different model air guns.

JM is a perfect example of one with exceptional knowledge about tuning air guns. You will notice the different seals he sells for same model guns. That is because the tubes are not consistant in O/D. Unless you have a perfect tube and the right seal size a DIY tune can be a gamble or a hit and miss affair.

[gene_sc]

Mark I do not have an issue with the Vortex kits. In most cases they prolly work well with the DIY tunes. The plastic tube that houses the spring deadens allot of the twang and spring noise. IMO a good pro tune with the proper lubes, seals and springs will last much longer than the Vortex systems. For sure I would never think of putting one of them in any of my German or English made springers...

[Mark 611]

Gene that is true if some one doesn't know what their doing this should not be tried, seal fit and other things involved are very important,

[Mark 611]

I agree I do like Steve Popes stuff allot better!

[Onebaddj]

Well the airgun gods have spoken. 

I have never shot a pro tuned gun. If its better than a pg2 kit i may have to send one out one day. But i gotta get a new springer to have one to send out. Great here we go again! Lol

When it comes to the deburring ill do the inside ofevery hole in the compression tube and the cocking slot. I figure the seal has to go past all of it to go in the gun. If one hole has a bur it could kill the seal on it way in. Just go slow and easy.

[rbshoots]

If your truly concerned about your compression tube, send it to someone to have a rigid hone (sunnen) put through it.(if you are interested I can tell you where) That will true up your compression tube (if you want to spend the money) and it may make it a bit easier to obtain a good seal  fit....I have found that JM's seals require fitting in most cases to get the most from them, for my Diana rifles I have had very good luck with seals from Kueng.....and from what I understand the VAC seals from vortek are just like em and are a drop in for the most part.......as for the question of durability of the vortek products.... I know of a few individuals that have in excess of 5k rds through their rifles and have noticed no drop in power or smoothness........ I personally don't see the need to send off a rifle to have it tuned.......I have not noticed enough difference in a "professionally" tuned AG and one tuned by what some around here call "shade tree tuners" that have mechanical ability and the proper tools to do the job.....someone like me!!!! But if you buy quality to begin with......very little is usually needed to make them tremendous shooters.....tuning usually only really benefits a lower end AG.......just my .02

[tom96]

at the moment my 34 has a JM tune kit in it that is wearing out but the seal was replaced about 3,000 shots ago and the kit was installed more than 20,000 shots ago so im interested in the best tune kit to improve power and something that makes the gun shoot smoother and when i read about the vortek kits seemed like a good deal and that they would do alot more for the gun than the maccari kit did my gun has already been debured, and honed and the piston is going to be weighted to handle heavy JSB's better so would the vortek be my best DIY option for the price?

[hw77grey]

Personally I think the vortek kit sounds great, not many complants around about them, good product I'd say, but myself I really prefer taking my time and walking through the whole process. I have even had a machine shop that dose some very affordable work for me ( my own guides, top hat, spacers and pivot bushings) granted not everyone has the same opportunity, but everyone can buy springs, spacers,seals,and lube. I know a professional tuner could likely do a much better job than me, but then I would have to ship it away and miss out on all the fun!!! I must say, all the tunes I have done have yielded some benefit, sometimes just experience.

[Onebaddj]

Yep id go with the vortek kit in a heart beat. All the hard work is done already so all you should have to do is pop off te stock, slide the trigger and spring out then slide the vortek kit and trigger in. 20-30 minutes maybe.

[dnullify]

In all honesty how difficult is it to hone the cylinder? And how much is gained, over simply having a decent (even stock) seal,  proper lubrication, and a straight spring?

[Mark 611]

It's no big deal if you don't overdo it! I've already told you how to do it and what is needed if you need further explanation feel free to pm me!

[lettercarrier1]

Here we go;

how specific do you want to go with a tune??


ALL THE WAY your knowledge will allow you to do it

little; then be satisfied with little results

BIG; is when you have tuned 1,000 of them or maybe 999. HEY!!! the difference is only 1 but the experience is enormous from 1 to 2 or 999 to 1,000

the DIY idea comes with the people that don't want to spend time WORKING 100 times on the same problem, over and over again and this idea is here to STAY or do you think Home Depot and Lowes will disappear tomorrow??

Old style is OLD, no matter how you toss the penny

If you disassemble the air rifle COMPLETELY to do a tune, how much is it from a simple tune to a 20'the century one?? Your answer is that Vortek did all that work for you and it took him 20 years and thousands of air rifles just like it did Jim M.

You pick your poison or your perfume very carefully, they both smell DIFFERENT

[gene_sc]

Like I mentioned previously on this thread, that I have nothing against the Vortek DIY kits. You are correct that, you do not get the same results from tuning low end springer verses a high end springer. In my view the lower end springer's were never finished at the factory for the most part. The higher end springer's such as HW. AA, Theoben etc. are finely crafted and hold a high degree of tolerance in there builds. Not to mention the metal and machine process that they use to produce them. Lower end springer's are mass produced and hold a very loose degree of tolerance. With that said, RWS mass produces most of there model air guns. The RWS 34 being the most popular. They are on the lower end of the high end of springer's. You cannot compare them with any of the HW, AA, nor Theoben springer's. The tubes vary in overall inside diameter for the most part. Not nearly as much as the low end springer's but they still vary.
It is almost impossible to make one seal size to fit all. If you have been around a while you can see how JM's seals have evolved over the years. It is almost impossible now days to make one seal to fit a certain air gun. He has varied sized seals to help overcome this issue. That is where the Professional Tuner comes in. Not everyone can size a seal properly nor does everyone have the experience and knowledge to inspect a springer and can spot existing problems.

Vortex kits will not fix a bad tube, bad breech seal, trigger and certainly cannot be the answer for a all round professional tune. They are what they are. A DIY kit that can be installed for in most case half the price of a professional tune.

A professional tuner does allot more than a DIY Vortex kit can ever do. And it is the end user's choice to have his springer or springer's tune or use the Vortek kits.

If your truly concerned about your compression tube, send it to someone to have a rigid hone (sunnen) put through it.(if you are interested I can tell you where) That will true up your compression tube (if you want to spend the money) and it may make it a bit easier to obtain a good seal  fit....I have found that JM's seals require fitting in most cases to get the most from them, for my Diana rifles I have had very good luck with seals from Kueng.....and from what I understand the VAC seals from vortek are just like em and are a drop in for the most part.......as for the question of durability of the vortek products.... I know of a few individuals that have in excess of 5k rds through their rifles and have noticed no drop in power or smoothness........ I personally don't see the need to send off a rifle to have it tuned.......I have not noticed enough difference in a "professionally" tuned AG and one tuned by what some around here call "shade tree tuners" that have mechanical ability and the proper tools to do the job.....someone like me!!!! But if you buy quality to begin with......very little is usually needed to make them tremendous shooters.....tuning usually only really benefits a lower end AG.......just my .02

[Mark 611]

I agree 100% Gene theirs more to tuning an AG than just putting in a spring and seal, 

[tom96]

Deffinately and i can hand make some parts for my gun but i got the new kit i went with maccari again and used plenty lube on the spring and piston replaced the seal again and worked on the trigger and heavily polished all the internals other than the tube, and now it shoots much smoother and more accurately and power is still very good it shoots RWS SD's at 734fps after giving the seal time to break in i will weight the piston when the JSB's get here. i still dont like the plastic guide, can i buy a metal or alloy one anywhere?