Author Topic: Pressure Maintaining Valve Information (Read 10017 times))

Taso1000 · « **Reply #40 on:** May 20, 2018, 12:25:44 PM »

Thank you Mark! I like experimenting and trying out ideas.

The stuff that I don't need anymore I will list on ebay or the classifieds here.

That filter you linked to looks like it could be used in the intake of a hand pump or a Yong Heng because it doesn't seem it will present much restriction.

Taso

txrpls · « **Reply #41 on:** May 20, 2018, 02:07:28 PM »

Quote from: Taso1000 on May 20, 2018, 12:25:44 PM

Thank you Mark! I like experimenting and trying out ideas.

The stuff that I don't need anymore I will list on ebay or the classifieds here.

That filter you linked to looks like it could be used in the intake of a hand pump or a Yong Heng because it doesn't seem it will present much restriction.

Taso

Taso,

It is made for the AV Compressor but I don't think it is effective since the sieve is not under any pressure to increase the dwell time. It may remove some moisture, but I doubt much. I don't think it will be any more effective than the spongy material in the original filter. Just my thoughts.

Mark

Taso1000 · « **Reply #42 on:** May 20, 2018, 03:48:49 PM »

Yeah, molecular sieve works best at high pressure but it will work in that canister. Silica gel should work better in your situation because it works better in higher moisture conditions and has a little more capacity ~~that~~ than molecular sieve.

I assume the AV compressor has a high flow rate. You could make a silica gel moisture filter with a long length of clear hose/tubing and fill it with indicating silica gel. That should give the intake air more contact time with the silica gel.

A home made canister would be easier to fill but less dwell time. You could make or buy something like this but larger:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Clear-RO-DI-Inline-Refillable-filter-Housing-Cartridge/142790279756?hash=item213ef6c24c:g:01MAAOSwGzhaKKq3

The only issue you may have is with restriction on the AV compressor intake. The compressor may be able to handle some or none at all. So whatever filter you use has to be as free flowing as possible. Optimally the longer your filter is the larger internal diameter you should have.

Just some ideas for you to build on.

Taso

hyperfluous · « **Reply #43 on:** May 20, 2018, 05:12:55 PM »

I plumbed one of these into the intake of my yong heng and it made a noticeable reduction in the moisture bled after the first stage.. the threading matches up with intake filter thread so I took some nylon fittings and some hose and have it hanging off to the side..

txrpls · « **Reply #44 on:** May 20, 2018, 10:00:37 PM »

Quote from: hyperfluous on May 20, 2018, 05:12:55 PM

I plumbed one of these into the intake of my yong heng and it made a noticeable reduction in the moisture bled after the first stage.. the threading matches up with intake filter thread so I took some nylon fittings and some hose and have it hanging off to the side..

I like it! Where did you source it?

hyperfluous · « **Reply #45 on:** May 20, 2018, 10:28:32 PM »

harbor freight for 8 bucks

rsterne · « **Reply #46 on:** May 21, 2018, 12:25:34 AM »

Using the smallest filter you can get on the inlet side where the volume is the greatest will remove a bit of moisture, but about the least efficient way to do it....

Bob

Taso1000 · « **Reply #47 on:** May 21, 2018, 01:07:22 AM »

This evening I attempted to top off one of my 30 minute scba cylinders. Everything started well. The Shoebox quickly pressurized everything up to the first pmv. The gauge read that the pmv was holding around 3600 psi of pressure. Then the Alpha filter was pressurized and my fill adapter gauge rose to about 2500 psi and started falling.

So I turned both compressors off and found two leaks on either side of a coupler that was just added for the second drip leg. I bled off all the pressure in the systems and tightened the leaking fittings more.

It didn't fix the leak.

I dug through my fittings and I had a spare coupler. I replaced the old one and pressurized the system again. The leak on the top had stopped but the one on the bottom still leaked. It's a reducer and I think it was threaded wrong. It's almost entirely in the coupler.

Tomorrow I'll go to Grainger and get a new reducer and a coupler since I'm there.

One curious thing though. I still have not seen one drop of water. I think there's two explanations for that. The first is that there isn't a lot of humidity in the house at the moment. It's around 40%.

Also I think the pressurized air from my membrane drier and my bleeds is dropping in pressure and vaporizing into my dry house air when released to atmospheric pressure.

The large amount of water that was blowing out of Steve Scialli's Daystate compressor review was very dramatic.

I am feeding my Shoebox pre treated air with the dew point of -4°F so that has to be part of it.

Does anyone have an explanation? Or all my filters aren't doing squat! lol

Thanks,

Taso

HuskyDude · « **Reply #48 on:** May 21, 2018, 05:55:01 PM »

Taso
Is it possible to take a pic and show where you found these leaks?
It's been brought to my attention that the gold filter is taped 10x1 metric female.
I threaded the 10m x1 male x Foster adaptor into a 1/8" bleed vlv, pumped it up to 3500psi and left it over nite...it did not leak down.
For lack of finding a 10m x 1 male x 1/8" npt male adptor that is made for 5000psi. And will ship to Canada...

Edit: Sorry got excited there

...thought you were using the gold filter....

Taso1000 · « **Reply #49 on:** May 21, 2018, 06:51:58 PM »

Dave,

It's ok.

No gold filter.

In reply #23 where you marked my pic in yellow, it's the 1/4 npt to 1/8 npt reducer bushing on the shorter drip leg.

I had a crazy headache that would not go away today. I took care of my appointments and went back home and just took one Tylenol. If it doesn't help I'll take a second one.

I wasn't in the mood to play around with it tonight so I'll go to Grainger tomorrow for the reducer bushing.

Thanks,

Taso

txrpls · « **Reply #50 on:** May 22, 2018, 03:02:41 PM »

@HuskyDude, I was able to source two 10mm male to 1/8"NPT in San Antonio. I just stuck with NPT after that. Taso turned me on to these folks:https://www.augustindustries.com. The guy I dealt with was very helpful. Nuvair never returned my call and when I gave the reception person my number they acted like it was an imposition.

Mark

AlanMcD · « **Reply #51 on:** May 22, 2018, 06:56:09 PM »

Tsao,

Here is the simple explanation why you aren't getting any signs of moisture in your traps after the Shoebox: the Drierite filter upstream of your Shoebox is drying the air to the point that there is not enough vapor left to condense in any of the conditions you set up after compression.

Drierite can dry the air as well as molecular sieve - I am not sure why you think your input air to the Shoebox has only been dried to an equivilent ambient dew point of -4F. Untill it becomes saturated, everything after the Shoebox is just fancy plumbing (and as you found out, a source for leaks too). Personally, I think your "input" setup is all you need . . . .

Taso1000 · « **Reply #52 on:** May 22, 2018, 07:10:23 PM »

Alan,

The Drierite canister ~~fill~~ full of silica gel has been removed. All that's left on the low pressure side is the membrane drier, it's prefilters and 2 regulators.

The membrane drier makes the dew point of -4°F

I've attached a picture of the current low side since I made changes around May 8th.

Taso

Taso1000 · « **Reply #53 on:** May 25, 2018, 01:36:38 PM »

I installed the new 1/4 npt to 1/8 npt reducer and the leak is gone. I guess I have been lucky as that is the only leak I've ever had.

I had the Shoebox pressurize the whole setup and fill adapter up to the closed scba bottle to 4500 psi just fine.

I cracked open the first bleed and there was no water. Either there is no water condensing there because it's dry or there is very little water that vaporizes at atmospheric pressure.

Tomorrow I will top off my cylinder and report my findings.

Thank you,

Taso

hyperfluous · « **Reply #54 on:** May 25, 2018, 09:47:51 PM »

Be wary.. you only may have water bleed once the sieve in the alpha filter is saturated.

Taso1000 · « **Reply #55 on:** May 25, 2018, 10:11:28 PM »

Quote from: hyperfluous on May 25, 2018, 09:47:51 PM

Be wary.. you only may have water bleed once the sieve in the alpha filter is saturated.

Daniel,

My bleeds are before the Alpha filter except for the bleed to relieve pressure so I can disconnect the fill adapter quick disconnect.

I think the Alpha will see extremely small amounts of moisture with the 3600 psi pmv in my current setup.

Taso

Taso1000 · « **Reply #56 on:** May 25, 2018, 10:15:27 PM »

I forgot to add Daniel, if the molecular seive gets saturated the moisture will go into my cylinders. Not good.

Once I finalize my setup the moisture indicator will go on the output of my Alpha filter to indicate when it is time to swap change out the molecular sieve cartridge.

Thanks,

Taso

Taso1000 · « **Reply #57 on:** May 27, 2018, 02:25:49 PM »

I topped off the 30 minute cylinder last night. The moisture indicator disk after the 3600 psi pmv and before the Alpha filter registered 20% relative humidity. I don't know what that figures out in absolute humidity or parts per million but I think that's pretty good.

I am not positive but I think I the humidity is low enough to not really need the Alpha filter. I admit I have a hard time understanding the humidity amounts. The indicator disk is the ultimate decider. So if the experts can confirm my conclusions that would be great.

I've wanted to to better than just removing liquid water as that leaves the air saturated at about 100% humidity. Things in our everyday life rust without having direct contact with water. If I recall correctly corrosion stops at about 45% relative humidity. Obviously lower than that is better but that 45% is the minimum.

Thanks,

Taso

EDIT: I forgot to attach the pictures of the moisture indicating disk and pink is the level versus blue.

https://www.augustindustries.com/moisture-indicator-disk-kit-mois.asp?bc=no

txrpls · « **Reply #58 on:** May 27, 2018, 09:12:13 PM »

Taso, I have ordered the humidity indicator and plan to install between my PMV and the fill hose. In my mind, this is the only way to verify the amount of moisture entering the tank/gun. You make me think too much.

Taso1000 · « **Reply #59 on:** May 27, 2018, 09:58:29 PM »

Mark,

Tell your wallet I'm sorry.

I've burnt myself out lately overthinking this stuff. So I step back for a break and shoot or tune an air gun and then jump back in.

I started my Shoebox thread January 23, 2017. If it wasn't for my car accident March 8, 2017 I would have finished all this sooner. I honestly think I'm close to the final configuration.

I'd like to watch the disk for a couple more top offs to confirm everything is working consistently and the 20% reading is not some fluke. Then I will remote mount the pmv, water traps and Alpha filter. I also plan to switch over to ultimox grease lubrication for the Shoebox pistons as it's non flammable, doesn't have a flash point or auto-ignition point.

I hope the gurus will post comments with formulas to confirm what the indicator disk is showing.

Thanks,

Taso

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Pressure Maintaining Valve Information

Author Topic: Pressure Maintaining Valve Information (Read 10017 times))