Is LocTite Necessary?



Author Topic: Is LocTite Necessary?  (Read 1473 times))

Offline DevilsLuck

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1838
  • N.U.A.H.-Sharp Shooter
Is LocTite Necessary?
« on: April 14, 2018, 04:54:40 PM »
If one has the appropriate torque on their scope rings, and mount; is it necessary to use LocTite?
  • Pell City, AL
Daisy 853 /.177
HW77k Special Edition /.22
Diana 48 B /.22
Air Arms TX200 MK III /.22 Walnut
Crosman Storm XT /.177
Crosman P1377 /.177
Crosman SNR .357 /.177
Benjamin Trail NP Pistol /.177 Dumpster fire!
Smith & Wesson M&P 45 /.177
Benjamin Titan GP /.22
Remington Express Synthetic /.22
Crosman F4 /.177
Hatsan 135 QE Carnivore /.30
Diana 350 .22
DPMS Panther A4 Classic /.177
Diana 34 /.177
Umarex Fusion /.177
Crosman Marksman 1010 /BB
Beeman P17 X 2 /.177
Benjamin 392 /.22- out of commission...
Diana Meisterschutz /.177

Offline Roadworthy

  • Honorary GTA Moderator
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 7349
  • yes
  • Real Name: Thomas
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2018, 05:10:28 PM »
I may not be the best person to ask.  I secure my scope mounts with a torque wrench and use no Loctite anywhere on any of my airguns.

Stock screws do get a bit of Vibratite VC-3 to prevent them from vibrating loose.  VC-3 can be retightened and still retain its properties.  Not all my stock screws get that treatment.  Most front screws have a star washer under the screw head with a flat washer between there and the stock.

I have found this system works for me.  I'm always open to suggestions for improvement, though.
  • Near the Southern Coast of Washington State
He not busy being born is busy dying. - Bob Dylan

Online Back_Roads

  • ???
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 3805
  • Sentry 702-3 .22 40 FPE W/ 30 gr. BBT FN
    • https://www.facebook.com/pg/longshot/about/
  • Real Name: James Seiler
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2018, 10:50:25 PM »
 Usually after a few snug ups during break in , they hold ok, though periodic checks are recommended. Sometimes I run into a gun that just needs a little extra holding power and I break out the blue stuff.
  • Wisconsin Collins ;Hunters Paradise; Theres a Sign in town to prove it :)
We Got The Guns !

Offline Sfttailrdr46

  • Of all the things I have lost I miss my mind the most
  • GTA Moderator
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 13720
  • Think first then hit send
  • Real Name: Don
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2018, 11:03:45 PM »
 ;) Being an old Harley rider blue Loctite is my friend and I use it for all stock screws. My scope mounts just get the specified torque since they are metal to metal and not subject to the compression problems that are inherent with wood and synthetic stocks. But that's just my solution to a thorny issue  ;D
  • Long Island N.Y.
AA S510 Xtra Fac .177 RH Walnut
Beeman RX-2 .20 cal
BSA R-10 MK II SE .22 FS
Rainstorm II .22 AWESOME Rifle
Air Speed .25 Smile Machine
Gamo Whisper Fusion .177
Gamo Swarm Maxxim .22
Marauder GenII .30  Boyd's TH 100+ fpe
RWS D460  .177  
PP700 SA ,22 PCP pistol W/Rocker1 LDC & Red Dot
CP2 .22 Pistol/Carbine
SPA Varmint .177
Freedom 8 & Guppy CF Tank & 45 min SCBA
 https://www.zeemaps.com/map?

Offline Wayne52

  • GTA Moderator
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 14716
  • Real Name: Wayne
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2018, 02:19:24 AM »
I never put loctite on any of my scope bolts, don't need it IMO, basically what Don said, you really don't need it on a scope mount IMO however I'm a pcp nut and not a springer fan so it might be different on a spring gun.  I just check mine every now and then just for good measure and they're always tight.
  • Kalamazoo Mi
HHD Sup Com Cam Ranh Bay Vietnam 71-72

Offline Smoketown

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 844
  • yes
  • Real Name: Jim
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2018, 11:02:33 AM »
Torque is nothing new ...

Before Loctite was available, it was recommended to use nail polish on the scope mount & ring screws.   ;)

To keep screws from backing out on our Harleys, we used the runny "aviation" Permatex in the can.    8)

Cheers,
Smoketown
  • Smoketown, PA
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes an act of rebellion."
- George Orwell

Current Crop -
1965 Sheridan Blue Streak - She was my first "real airgun" - New in '66 ... I still have her!
Daisy 717 - 'bout 1984?
AA TX200 MK III - .177
AA S510 FAC - .177 - Regulated
NRA Life Member

Members Map - https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=962067
No Registration - Just Your Zip Code

Offline Sfttailrdr46

  • Of all the things I have lost I miss my mind the most
  • GTA Moderator
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 13720
  • Think first then hit send
  • Real Name: Don
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2018, 11:13:04 AM »
Torque is nothing new ...

Before Loctite was available, it was recommended to use nail polish on the scope mount & ring screws.   ;)

To keep screws from backing out on our Harleys, we used the runny "aviation" Permatex in the can.    8)

Cheers,
Smoketown
::) ::) Getting old I forgot the sticky Permatex trick used it on my then new Sporty back in '67 before me and a buddy did a cross country road trip in late spring of '68. It kept mirrors and foot pegs from falling off  ;D ;D
  • Long Island N.Y.
AA S510 Xtra Fac .177 RH Walnut
Beeman RX-2 .20 cal
BSA R-10 MK II SE .22 FS
Rainstorm II .22 AWESOME Rifle
Air Speed .25 Smile Machine
Gamo Whisper Fusion .177
Gamo Swarm Maxxim .22
Marauder GenII .30  Boyd's TH 100+ fpe
RWS D460  .177  
PP700 SA ,22 PCP pistol W/Rocker1 LDC & Red Dot
CP2 .22 Pistol/Carbine
SPA Varmint .177
Freedom 8 & Guppy CF Tank & 45 min SCBA
 https://www.zeemaps.com/map?

Offline DevilsLuck

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1838
  • N.U.A.H.-Sharp Shooter
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 11:18:46 AM »
Torque is nothing new ...

Before Loctite was available, it was recommended to use nail polish on the scope mount & ring screws.   ;)

To keep screws from backing out on our Harleys, we used the runny "aviation" Permatex in the can.    8)

Cheers,
Smoketown
While I realize that liquid ďlocking agentsĒ arenít new; I was curious as to whether they were necessary at all, if one used the ďcorrect ď torque on the scope mount, and rings. Iím currently experimenting with this using my new D34. With the RWS single piece mount. 30lbs is holding fast. For the rings; a tourque of 20lbs gave way, Iíve since up it to 25lbs. Iím still in the middle of testing. But for 7 shots itís held. Iím heasitant to go much higher.
  • Pell City, AL
Daisy 853 /.177
HW77k Special Edition /.22
Diana 48 B /.22
Air Arms TX200 MK III /.22 Walnut
Crosman Storm XT /.177
Crosman P1377 /.177
Crosman SNR .357 /.177
Benjamin Trail NP Pistol /.177 Dumpster fire!
Smith & Wesson M&P 45 /.177
Benjamin Titan GP /.22
Remington Express Synthetic /.22
Crosman F4 /.177
Hatsan 135 QE Carnivore /.30
Diana 350 .22
DPMS Panther A4 Classic /.177
Diana 34 /.177
Umarex Fusion /.177
Crosman Marksman 1010 /BB
Beeman P17 X 2 /.177
Benjamin 392 /.22- out of commission...
Diana Meisterschutz /.177

Online Back_Roads

  • ???
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 3805
  • Sentry 702-3 .22 40 FPE W/ 30 gr. BBT FN
    • https://www.facebook.com/pg/longshot/about/
  • Real Name: James Seiler
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2018, 11:30:35 AM »
 There is also the trick of putting some bore polish paste along the 11mm groves this gives the adapter some extra bite, I haven't messed with a scope on the Ruger Air Hawk .177 I recently acquired, Maybe today It will get played with , since I am basically snowed in :o
  • Wisconsin Collins ;Hunters Paradise; Theres a Sign in town to prove it :)
We Got The Guns !

Offline Smoketown

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 844
  • yes
  • Real Name: Jim
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2018, 06:52:26 PM »
Torque is nothing new ...

Before Loctite was available, it was recommended to use nail polish on the scope mount & ring screws.   ;)

To keep screws from backing out on our Harleys, we used the runny "aviation" Permatex in the can.    8)

Cheers,
Smoketown
While I realize that liquid ďlocking agentsĒ arenít new; I was curious as to whether they were necessary at all, if one used the ďcorrect ď torque on the scope mount, and rings. Iím currently experimenting with this using my new D34. With the RWS single piece mount. 30lbs is holding fast. For the rings; a tourque of 20lbs gave way, Iíve since up it to 25lbs. Iím still in the middle of testing. But for 7 shots itís held. Iím heasitant to go much higher.


Torque is NOT new ... "Miracle" locking agents ARE.     (If the early 70's could be considered new ...)    ;)
 
Steel screws in aluminum mounts, clamping a scope to an item subject to recoil ... What could possibly go wrong?   :o


Are your screws lubed?

Dirty threads equal high torque and low tension.

Tension (EVEN tension) is what you are really looking for.


Seriously, some have excellent luck using torque alone while others have screws loosen, even with Loctite.

As the old grind goes, "Your Mileage May Vary".

I almost always use some form of locking agent on ALL screws that I want to remain tight.
(Bone dry and de-greased (also test fit by hand) as the "thread locker" does provide some lubrication.)

Cheers,
Smoketown





  • Smoketown, PA
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes an act of rebellion."
- George Orwell

Current Crop -
1965 Sheridan Blue Streak - She was my first "real airgun" - New in '66 ... I still have her!
Daisy 717 - 'bout 1984?
AA TX200 MK III - .177
AA S510 FAC - .177 - Regulated
NRA Life Member

Members Map - https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=962067
No Registration - Just Your Zip Code

Offline Smoketown

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 844
  • yes
  • Real Name: Jim
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2018, 06:58:50 PM »
Torque is nothing new ...

Before Loctite was available, it was recommended to use nail polish on the scope mount & ring screws.   ;)

To keep screws from backing out on our Harleys, we used the runny "aviation" Permatex in the can.    8)

Cheers,
Smoketown


::) ::) Getting old I forgot the sticky Permatex trick used it on my then new Sporty back in '67 before me and a buddy did a cross country road trip in late spring of '68. It kept mirrors and foot pegs from falling off  ;D ;D

  ;D ;D ;D  The old aluminum Anderson pegs that I ran would spit their bolts faster than you could tighten them!

An exciting ride to be sure!!

Cheers,
Smoketown
  • Smoketown, PA
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes an act of rebellion."
- George Orwell

Current Crop -
1965 Sheridan Blue Streak - She was my first "real airgun" - New in '66 ... I still have her!
Daisy 717 - 'bout 1984?
AA TX200 MK III - .177
AA S510 FAC - .177 - Regulated
NRA Life Member

Members Map - https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=962067
No Registration - Just Your Zip Code

Offline Sfttailrdr46

  • Of all the things I have lost I miss my mind the most
  • GTA Moderator
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 13720
  • Think first then hit send
  • Real Name: Don
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2018, 07:00:00 PM »
Been there and done that makes for a challenging ride to say the least  ::) ::)
  • Long Island N.Y.
AA S510 Xtra Fac .177 RH Walnut
Beeman RX-2 .20 cal
BSA R-10 MK II SE .22 FS
Rainstorm II .22 AWESOME Rifle
Air Speed .25 Smile Machine
Gamo Whisper Fusion .177
Gamo Swarm Maxxim .22
Marauder GenII .30  Boyd's TH 100+ fpe
RWS D460  .177  
PP700 SA ,22 PCP pistol W/Rocker1 LDC & Red Dot
CP2 .22 Pistol/Carbine
SPA Varmint .177
Freedom 8 & Guppy CF Tank & 45 min SCBA
 https://www.zeemaps.com/map?

Offline SteveP-52

  • I'm the wrong guy to ask about talking you out of an air rifle :)
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 4634
  • yes
  • Real Name: Steve
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2018, 08:12:07 PM »
Never used Loctite on scope rings as so far, never had a problem with then, but did for stock screws until i started reading about the Vibra-Tite VC3. As mentioned above, it works just like the blue Loctite with the added bonus that if needed, you can tighten screws a little more without needing to reapply it.
  • Buffalo, NY, USA
Hatsan Galatian III QE .25
Hatsan Flashpup .25
Hatsan Flash .22
Beeman R9 .20
Weihrauch HW95 .22
Mendoza Blackhawk .22
Norica Dead Eye GRS .22
Hatsans:
-Model 95 springer .25
-Model 95 QE .22
-Edge .25 Springer
-1000X .25
Webley:
-Tomahawk .177 & .22
-Spector SR .177  w/custom Striker wood stock
-VMX .20 (3, 1 gas rammed)
Beeman P17
Sig Sauer P226

Offline bcsnave

  • Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • yes
  • Real Name: Bill
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 12:18:58 PM »
What is this "loc tite" stuff of which you talk about????

Who needs it?

  • USA, WI, Glenbeulah

Offline DevilsLuck

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1838
  • N.U.A.H.-Sharp Shooter
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2018, 12:45:55 PM »
What is this "loc tite" stuff of which you talk about????

Who needs it?
Duct tape is right up there with the disposable lighter, and the wheel when it comes to all-time greatest inventions ever!
  • Pell City, AL
Daisy 853 /.177
HW77k Special Edition /.22
Diana 48 B /.22
Air Arms TX200 MK III /.22 Walnut
Crosman Storm XT /.177
Crosman P1377 /.177
Crosman SNR .357 /.177
Benjamin Trail NP Pistol /.177 Dumpster fire!
Smith & Wesson M&P 45 /.177
Benjamin Titan GP /.22
Remington Express Synthetic /.22
Crosman F4 /.177
Hatsan 135 QE Carnivore /.30
Diana 350 .22
DPMS Panther A4 Classic /.177
Diana 34 /.177
Umarex Fusion /.177
Crosman Marksman 1010 /BB
Beeman P17 X 2 /.177
Benjamin 392 /.22- out of commission...
Diana Meisterschutz /.177

Offline Roadworthy

  • Honorary GTA Moderator
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 7349
  • yes
  • Real Name: Thomas
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2018, 01:12:13 PM »
Loctite is a German-owned American brand of adhesives, sealants and surface treatments that include acrylic, cyanoacrylate, epoxy, hot melt, silicone, urethane and UV/light curing technologies. Loctite products are sold globally and are used in a variety of industrial and hobbyist applications.
Generally on this site the Loctite referenced is Loctite blue - an anaerobic thread locking compound which holds threaded fasteners securely until the joint is broken by loosening or tightening.  At this point it must be reapplied and the part reassembled.
I don't think anybody really NEEDS the stuff but it sure is nice not having bolts and screws work loose.
Personally I use Vibratite VC-3 as I can tighten it without reapplication.
  • Near the Southern Coast of Washington State
He not busy being born is busy dying. - Bob Dylan

Offline Bigragu

  • Marksman
  • ***
  • Posts: 387
  • yes
  • Real Name: Augie
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2018, 01:02:13 PM »
On hard thumping powder burners Iíve used rosin, the stuff baseball players run on their bats, on the bottoms of the scope rings prior to setting the scope down. Just a small dab.

Vibratite is awesome stuff, but really tough to clean off the threads if you ever want to start over, like years later mount that scope on another rifle. So, back to blue lock tite I went on air rifle scope ring screws only. I used to lock tite the scope ring bases to the pic rail of a scope, but learned that the scope must come off a lot on my Marauder if I need to access the bolt, hammer, etc. so I left those clean of any locking solution.

Something I sorta learned myself, and it became habit from doing it to the hard hitting center fire guns, is after everything is mounted, wiped clean, etc., I run a pencil line mark against the scope and the edge of both scope rings(just the top half of the rings), just so I have a quick visual to see if the scope ever slips forward or back. The graphite line is not noticeable really, but easily seen, if you know what I mean.
  • USA, CA, in the foothills
Beeman RX2 in 20 cal
Beeman R10 in 177 cal
Beeman FWB 124 Sport in 177 cal
Benjamin Titan NP in 22 cal
Benjamin Synrod in 25 cal- hillairgun parts all over
Benjamin PRod- hillairgun and Screwerk parts all over
Airhog 88 Cu Ft CF tank
Hill MK4 pump
Hatsan Hercules Bully in 30 cal in route as of 6-26-2018. Update- ARRIVED 7-3-2018 OH YEAH!!
Hatsan Lightning Compressor in route as of 6-26-2018. Update- ARRIVED 7-25-2018 WOOO HOOO!!
1993 Dodge 1stGen Diesel die hard

Offline AirMojo

  • Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • yes
  • Real Name: Ken
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2018, 07:42:40 PM »
I always follow the recommendations that Tim McMurray from Mac-1 Airguns (is he still around ?)...

Clean all screws and thread with alcohol, and just tighten (not overtighten) until the screws "squeak" a little.

Seems to work well for me so far... and I have transplanted scopes and mounts numerous times over the years.

Anyone else remember that recommendation from way back when ?

  • USA, Ohio
Ken H in OH... Life is One Hole After Another

Offline nced

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 3613
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2018, 10:58:03 PM »
If one has the appropriate torque on their scope rings, and mount; is it necessary to use LocTite?
I never us thread locker on my scope mounts. I use a torque wrench to limit the possibility of scope tube damage which I've had when using 15in/lbs torque with the  two piece BKL "double strap mounts", however I've never had scope tube damage with the BKL one piece mounts using 15in/lbs torque on the top strap screws................


Notice the distinctive "double strap dents" on these two scopes from the two piece double strappers using 15in/lbs of torque...........


I'm currently using a UTG universal picatinny to dovetail adapter on my HW springers and a set of Weaver Quad Lock rings clamped to the adapter like this...........
 
Even though these Weaver mounts have narrow top straps like the BKL two piece mount I've had no scope tube damage using 15in/lbs of top strap screw torque yet the rather heavy 5-15x50 Hawke scope still holds firm using only 10in/lbs of torque!

Here is the scope creep using the BKL double strappers when only 10in/lbs of torque are applied to the top straps, yet as mentioned above 15in/lbs of torque deformed the scope tube............


Anywhoo......as mentioned, I never use thread locker on my scope mount screws.
 

Offline DevilsLuck

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1838
  • N.U.A.H.-Sharp Shooter
Re: Is LocTite Necessary?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2018, 03:24:11 PM »
Iím on 3 scopes now using no thread locker. So far with 18lbs torque; theyíve held.
  • Pell City, AL
Daisy 853 /.177
HW77k Special Edition /.22
Diana 48 B /.22
Air Arms TX200 MK III /.22 Walnut
Crosman Storm XT /.177
Crosman P1377 /.177
Crosman SNR .357 /.177
Benjamin Trail NP Pistol /.177 Dumpster fire!
Smith & Wesson M&P 45 /.177
Benjamin Titan GP /.22
Remington Express Synthetic /.22
Crosman F4 /.177
Hatsan 135 QE Carnivore /.30
Diana 350 .22
DPMS Panther A4 Classic /.177
Diana 34 /.177
Umarex Fusion /.177
Crosman Marksman 1010 /BB
Beeman P17 X 2 /.177
Benjamin 392 /.22- out of commission...
Diana Meisterschutz /.177

GTA - The best place for discussion about Air Guns.