10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?



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Online Hoosier Daddy

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10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« on: February 03, 2018, 10:14:39 PM »
I am enjoying target matches and ready for the next step in pistols. I have been using my 2300KT and Home brewed 1740.
If I have about $500 in the play funds.
I know it is well under the amount of a PCP match grade gun... but of the two, a Baikal IZH-46M or the Chiappa FAS 6004, which would you choose?
First, here in the states the Izzy would be second hand while I can buy a new FAS.
We all know "out of the box" performance is key, so a pistol with a a reputation of one being better than the other is what I am looking for input on.
Yet long term support is very important. If I can not get support from Russia 3-5 years down the road has me worried.
 An excellent track record is desirable and I feel both of these fit the bill.

Turning to the masters here for thoughts / recommendations.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 10:16:26 PM by Hoosier Daddy »
Pistols
Crosman: PC77, 1740, 1701P
Benjiman H9A

Rifles
Air Arms: S400-SL Carbine FAC
Beeman: RS2 Silver Kodiak,
Benjamin: 312, 342, 392P, 392PA, Maximus
Crosman: Genesis NP .22, Quest 1000X, Raven, 2nd & 3rd var 160's
Feinwerkbau: FWB 300S
Gamo: Recon
SAG: AR2078-B, QB58
Sheridan: C Blue Streak, C9 Blue Streak, Model F Co2
Weihrauch: HW98
Xisico: XS60C .22, Sentry 702-3 .22

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Offline ac12

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2018, 02:14:07 AM »
Neither.
The problem with the iZH-46 is the weight.  It is a rather heavy pistol.
I forget why I passed on the FAS.

Instead, I went with a used Pardini K-58, also a SSP, and a tier 1 pistol.
It was excellent in all respects.
Except my tendonitis did not like the SSP charging motion.

I suggest emailing or calling Pilkington Guns (www.pilkguns.com) and ask what they have in their used air pistol inventory.
I bought both of my 10 APs from them; the SSP Pardini K58, and a co2 Walther CPM-1.
Pilkingtons will service what they sell.
  • San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA
10 meter target Air Pistol and Air Rifle

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2018, 05:25:52 AM »
Interesting, I had no idea Pilkington sold used guns.
 Thanks!
Pistols
Crosman: PC77, 1740, 1701P
Benjiman H9A

Rifles
Air Arms: S400-SL Carbine FAC
Beeman: RS2 Silver Kodiak,
Benjamin: 312, 342, 392P, 392PA, Maximus
Crosman: Genesis NP .22, Quest 1000X, Raven, 2nd & 3rd var 160's
Feinwerkbau: FWB 300S
Gamo: Recon
SAG: AR2078-B, QB58
Sheridan: C Blue Streak, C9 Blue Streak, Model F Co2
Weihrauch: HW98
Xisico: XS60C .22, Sentry 702-3 .22

Proud Member of F.U.G.L.Y.

Offline truepaganini

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2018, 01:55:44 AM »
I had an IZH but it was just way too heavy and I had to sell it. I've done some research on the fas 6004 and they're a great company. seems like a good entry level 10m gun if you dont want a pcp
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Offline Frank in Fairfield

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 10:45:36 AM »
New IZH46M pistols are available from Canada..
  • Fairfield, California
AA TX200 MKIII, .177
Baikal IZH46M w/Steve Corcoran Furniture
Beeman R1, San Rafael, .177
Benjamin Sheridan Blue Streak, Williams Peep
Benjamin Marauder Gen I, .177 w/Boyd's Stock
Benjamin Marauder Gen I, .22   w/Boydís Stock
Benjamin Marauder Gen I, .25   w/TEREX Stock
Crosman 1720T, Alchemy AirWerks Grips & Forearm
Crosman 2300S
Daisy Model 25, Variant #7
Daisy Red Ryder
FWB300S
HW35E, .177, Beeman/Williams Peep/12fpe VORTEK
RWS Diana 52, .177
Bug-a-Salt

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 11:55:45 AM »
Haven't found one yet.
baikalcanada.com out of stock as well as any other sellers I have found.
Pistols
Crosman: PC77, 1740, 1701P
Benjiman H9A

Rifles
Air Arms: S400-SL Carbine FAC
Beeman: RS2 Silver Kodiak,
Benjamin: 312, 342, 392P, 392PA, Maximus
Crosman: Genesis NP .22, Quest 1000X, Raven, 2nd & 3rd var 160's
Feinwerkbau: FWB 300S
Gamo: Recon
SAG: AR2078-B, QB58
Sheridan: C Blue Streak, C9 Blue Streak, Model F Co2
Weihrauch: HW98
Xisico: XS60C .22, Sentry 702-3 .22

Proud Member of F.U.G.L.Y.

Offline Frank in Fairfield

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 04:55:06 PM »
I see them on the Yellow Forum from time to time.
Mac1 can service them for you.
Maybe you will get lucky and find one like this.
490fps with 7 grain pellet:
  • Fairfield, California
AA TX200 MKIII, .177
Baikal IZH46M w/Steve Corcoran Furniture
Beeman R1, San Rafael, .177
Benjamin Sheridan Blue Streak, Williams Peep
Benjamin Marauder Gen I, .177 w/Boyd's Stock
Benjamin Marauder Gen I, .22   w/Boydís Stock
Benjamin Marauder Gen I, .25   w/TEREX Stock
Crosman 1720T, Alchemy AirWerks Grips & Forearm
Crosman 2300S
Daisy Model 25, Variant #7
Daisy Red Ryder
FWB300S
HW35E, .177, Beeman/Williams Peep/12fpe VORTEK
RWS Diana 52, .177
Bug-a-Salt

Offline Joekrooz

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2018, 05:02:20 PM »
I got a like new 46m im not using, just putting it out there ::).
  • Long Island, New York
RAW HM1000X .30        Maddog CondorSS .25
EDgun R5 .30               Maddog TalonP .25
EDgun Leshiy .22 .25    JKHan Noblesse .25
Taipan Veteran .25        HW97K .177
Sumatra Carbine .25     TX200HC.177
Evanix Max Air .25

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 06:07:18 PM »
PM sent to you on it Joe.
Pistols
Crosman: PC77, 1740, 1701P
Benjiman H9A

Rifles
Air Arms: S400-SL Carbine FAC
Beeman: RS2 Silver Kodiak,
Benjamin: 312, 342, 392P, 392PA, Maximus
Crosman: Genesis NP .22, Quest 1000X, Raven, 2nd & 3rd var 160's
Feinwerkbau: FWB 300S
Gamo: Recon
SAG: AR2078-B, QB58
Sheridan: C Blue Streak, C9 Blue Streak, Model F Co2
Weihrauch: HW98
Xisico: XS60C .22, Sentry 702-3 .22

Proud Member of F.U.G.L.Y.

Online Hoosier Daddy

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2018, 09:16:03 PM »
Joe was kind enough to reply, even offered it less than listed originally, but still a tad out of reach.  :-\

So considering the two listed, how would a Weihrauch HW 75 stack up in my 10M pistol plan?
Yet another SSP but I know little about it.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 09:23:28 PM by Hoosier Daddy »
Pistols
Crosman: PC77, 1740, 1701P
Benjiman H9A

Rifles
Air Arms: S400-SL Carbine FAC
Beeman: RS2 Silver Kodiak,
Benjamin: 312, 342, 392P, 392PA, Maximus
Crosman: Genesis NP .22, Quest 1000X, Raven, 2nd & 3rd var 160's
Feinwerkbau: FWB 300S
Gamo: Recon
SAG: AR2078-B, QB58
Sheridan: C Blue Streak, C9 Blue Streak, Model F Co2
Weihrauch: HW98
Xisico: XS60C .22, Sentry 702-3 .22

Proud Member of F.U.G.L.Y.

Offline WyoMan

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2018, 10:09:29 PM »
Hey Scott, I can compare the HW 75 with the FAS 6004, but I've got no direct experience with the Izzy.

Sorry for the photobomb but here's a pic of both:



The FAS is a little lighter and has a much better grip. It also has a faster hammer (shorter lock time). That's noticeable when you shoot them enough. With the FAS, the pellet is gone before you would pull a shot with the HW 75. However, and this is big, the HW 75 trigger can be set much, much lighter so you won't generally pull any shots.

The HW 75 separate cocking action is the key to the better trigger. With over-lever SSP's (like the FAS) that normally cock during the lever action, you need adequate sear engagement to be safe. After all, the pellet is loaded and you're compressing the firing charge. The HW 75 is completely safe with a single-stage razor edge sear engagement.... you pull back the hammer right before you fire. If the engagement is too weak, the hammer won't cock. It's the only gun I have that can be set with a trigger that is too light to like (touch it and it fires).

They both have great build quality and similar accuracy potential. The over-lever design has the sights, barrel, and lever all in common fixation. The sights and adjustment of such are both excellent.
The HW 75 has a little more horsepower than the FAS but the difference is probably only 10 - 20 fps.

IMO, I would give a slight nod to the FAS because of the better grips and faster lock-time... hth-

Wyo
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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2018, 06:50:54 AM »
Thanks Wyo,
 That helps a lot.
Pistols
Crosman: PC77, 1740, 1701P
Benjiman H9A

Rifles
Air Arms: S400-SL Carbine FAC
Beeman: RS2 Silver Kodiak,
Benjamin: 312, 342, 392P, 392PA, Maximus
Crosman: Genesis NP .22, Quest 1000X, Raven, 2nd & 3rd var 160's
Feinwerkbau: FWB 300S
Gamo: Recon
SAG: AR2078-B, QB58
Sheridan: C Blue Streak, C9 Blue Streak, Model F Co2
Weihrauch: HW98
Xisico: XS60C .22, Sentry 702-3 .22

Proud Member of F.U.G.L.Y.

Offline Frank in Fairfield

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2018, 03:55:40 PM »
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=139012.0;attach=215938;image
Click on the above then...
here is a group from the other day.
Not much difference between 10/20 yards..
  • Fairfield, California
AA TX200 MKIII, .177
Baikal IZH46M w/Steve Corcoran Furniture
Beeman R1, San Rafael, .177
Benjamin Sheridan Blue Streak, Williams Peep
Benjamin Marauder Gen I, .177 w/Boyd's Stock
Benjamin Marauder Gen I, .22   w/Boydís Stock
Benjamin Marauder Gen I, .25   w/TEREX Stock
Crosman 1720T, Alchemy AirWerks Grips & Forearm
Crosman 2300S
Daisy Model 25, Variant #7
Daisy Red Ryder
FWB300S
HW35E, .177, Beeman/Williams Peep/12fpe VORTEK
RWS Diana 52, .177
Bug-a-Salt

Online Hoosier Daddy

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2018, 08:49:36 PM »
Oh Frank... I saw that pic you posted... Thrust me it is a beauty and a severe lovey to me.

Pistols
Crosman: PC77, 1740, 1701P
Benjiman H9A

Rifles
Air Arms: S400-SL Carbine FAC
Beeman: RS2 Silver Kodiak,
Benjamin: 312, 342, 392P, 392PA, Maximus
Crosman: Genesis NP .22, Quest 1000X, Raven, 2nd & 3rd var 160's
Feinwerkbau: FWB 300S
Gamo: Recon
SAG: AR2078-B, QB58
Sheridan: C Blue Streak, C9 Blue Streak, Model F Co2
Weihrauch: HW98
Xisico: XS60C .22, Sentry 702-3 .22

Proud Member of F.U.G.L.Y.

Offline ac12

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2018, 07:48:21 PM »
ISH-46 (heavy pistol) + scope = heavy setup, probably 2-hand hold.
  • San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA
10 meter target Air Pistol and Air Rifle

Offline Danny5691

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2018, 05:49:31 AM »
I've got both and the clear winner to me is the IZH. The new FAS has low velocity problems that need to be addressed by using a couple of shims behind the breech oring to make it seal properly. Also, the trigger is really nothing to write home about. It's a decent gun, but definitely not worth the money.

The Izzy is heavier, no doubt. And the grip is very basic, and doesn't feel anywhere as nice as the FAS grip. But the trigger and the accuracy are excellent. I'm much more accurate with the Izzy than the FAS. Personally, I think the extra weight up front on the Izzy helps steady my aim.

Now, do I think the Izzy is worth what people are asking for it used? Nope. I've seen them going for around $500. That's too much for this pistol. But the FAS price is worse imo. If you can get an Izzy for $300-325 shipped, in NEW condition than I'd say get it. But if you've got $500 then just save a little more and buy a used match gun from pilkguns.
  • USA, NY, Tonawanda
Custom Crosman Mk.1
Late model Crosman Mk.1
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IZH 46M
Crosman 150
Walther LGR Target
Air Arms TX200hc with TBT kit, Maccari spring and SWFA SS 10X scope

Offline Earl

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2018, 12:20:21 PM »
You might want to buy a Beeman P-17 for $32.89 just for fun.
Don't be fooled by the low price.  The P-17s are ACCURATE.
My two P-17s are accurate with RWS Basic 7.0 grain pellets.
One has a 4x scope and the other just has the original open sights.

https://www.amazon.com/Beeman-Sportsman-Deluxe-Air-Pistol/dp/B000W30UAA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1518279057&sr=8-1&keywords=p17+pistol&dpID=31jOQMOXG0L&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
  • Lexington, KY, USA
Benjamin Marauder .177, Crosman Challenger .177, Umarex Gauntlet .177, Benjamin Discovery .177, Benjamin Maximus .177, Gamo Whisper Fusion .22, Crosman 2100B, Crosman 2300T, Browning Leverage .177, CPM Daisy 853, Daisy 880, Mrodair CP-1M .177, Mrodair CP2 .177, 2-Beeman P17s, 3-Crosman P1377s, Umarex Fusion .177, GameFace M4A1 airsoft, Crosman Vigilante, Umarex Peacemaker, 5-Bug-A-Salt, plus many others

Offline fishyguy

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2018, 01:22:22 PM »
Iíve owned two izh 46ís and after several months sold each as I never could get used to the front heavy balance. For me the balance point didnít feel just a little front heavy, it was like the center balance point was waaaay down the barrel.  Accuracy and function wise, they were good guns. Two handed shooting though for me.

The 6004 is lighter, very accurate, sexier if that matters. My only complaint is that it is very low power... around 340fps. So itís got enough power for paper but is a little lacking if you want to shoot much else. Iíd never sell it though, still like it that much. Compared to my hw40, Iíll take the 6004, but the hw40 isnít giving up much, and would win value for money wise.
  • British Columbia

Offline ac12

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2018, 02:43:43 PM »
The IZH-46 grip is meant to be fitted to your hand.
Round file and sandpaper (100 and 220 grit).

Go to this site to read Don Nygord's notes on fitting a grip
http://australiancynic.com/NYGORD.htm
"Modifying Your Pistol's Grip,"   part 1 and 2.
READ it, and READ it again.  Then really think about it, and plan what you are going to do, before you put file to wood.
Tip: remove the grip from the pistol, wrap the pistol in plastic wrap, put the grip back on.  The plastic wrap will help to keep the wood dust out of the mechanism.  Though you will have to have the trigger clear for your finger.  This is a DUSTY project.

If you take off too much wood, or you need to raise a low spot, try a knedable expoxy putty.  I think you can find it at Ace Hardware or any of big box hardware stores.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 06:05:58 PM by ac12 »
  • San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA
10 meter target Air Pistol and Air Rifle

Offline Deckard1973

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Re: 10M pistol- IZH-46M or FAS 6004?
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2018, 02:54:13 PM »
I have had my Izzy for . . . oh, must be over 10 years now (does not even show up in PA Your Order history anymore).
Yeah, she is a bit front end heavy, but I like my girls a little on the heavy side (better make sure my wife is not in the room to see that)! 
I have the scope/red dot mount too.
I love it! 

Isnt there someone in the Vender section who makes custom wood Izzy grips?  They are not cheap, but based off the pics the gentleman's wood work is top notch. 
Edit:  Here it is!  https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=103132.0
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 03:02:10 PM by Deckard1973 »
  • Central NY
Benjamin Marauder .22 Gen I WAR SSG
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