Looking at buying an Europian Springer- what difference should I expect?

[Big Rick]

You can see below what I have. What I want to know is what quality differences should I expect in a RWS or similar rifle. I am going with .20 or .22. Please feel free to make suggestions, trying to stay under four bills.

[Acapulco]

Being in this hobby for 11 years, I would recommend [even tho u want a 20 or 22] starting off with  R7 in .177.

[Big Rick]

Alright. Why? If you don't mind explaining.

[SteveP-52]

The fit and finish of anything German, at least Weihrauch (I've never owned a Diana or RWS) vs the rifles you have is MILES apart. The bluing on my HW95 and R9 are a rich, deep, dark blue and you know they've been truly blued and the right way, compared to the so-so black finish on any of my Hatty's. The stocks don't look like they needed that spray coating to fill in the rough cutting of the stock while they churned out hundreds, when you pull that Rekord trigger the first time, you'll wish you could put one on your Hatty 95 and the accuracy is just...just...oh my...

Word of note on calibers: .20 is at a premium and unless you can find one used is gonna cost you...the HW95 Luxus for example is $389.00 in .22. order one in .20 (and the Luxus version is the only 95 that comes in .20) is $569.00. Only difference between the Luxus and the standard version I have is the stock extends to cover the whole cocking arm and the front of the stock is also checkered where my standard version isn't.
The R9 .20 can be had from PA for $449.00 and the new versions of them now come with open sights where the older ones like I have didn't come with them. I've also looked at Krale while I was considering a .20 and it would seem if you want any of the HW's in .20 they'll have to special order you one as for the break barrels I looked at, none had a .20 option.
Hope this helps some and I'm sure others will chime in with thoughts on the RWS and Diana rifles.

[Big Rick]

Thanks Steve, I was hoping you would chime in because you have helped me in the past. Can anyone tell me is the value there? I like my Hatsan 95 a lot. It is a smooth cocking gun and quiet with a decent trigger at around two bills. Am I going to feel like I spent my money well comparing say a R 9 to my QE 95?

[SteveP-52]

It will definitely be money well spent. I have absolutely no regrets about buying either my HW95 .22 or the Beeman R9 .20 I just bought from another member here on GTA, but comparing a Weihrauch to a Hatsan is kinda like comparing a Chevy to a Porche...they don't and no sense in trying. If it helps, I don't shoot my Hatty's any less just because of the above 2 rifles and my usual go-to rifle for swatting the occasional squirrel is still a Webley Tomahawk .22...lol

[Roadworthy]

Quality differences can be hard to put your finger on - especially since I know nothing about Hatsan.  As far as I know RWS doesn't make anything - Diana is the manufacturer of the German guns commonly stamped RWS.  RWS is a distributor.

The German break barrels (Diana and Weihrauch) have a very different (and more stable) pivot system than Crosman.  Again, I don't know Hatsan.  The German guns have a sleeve through the barrel block and both sides of the fork supporting the barrel.  They do not depend on pivot washers for support.  They also have a choked barrel, or a slight diameter reduction near the muzzle.  This tends to stabilize the pellet and makes them a bit less pellet picky.  I don't know a thing about Hatsan triggers but the Diana and Weihrauch triggers are worlds better than anything Crosman produces.

If I were shopping again with your budget I'd probably get another Diana 34 - I like them that well.  They are easy to work on though they rarely need it.  A second choice for me would probably be the Weihrauch HW95.  Both are excellent multi purpose break barrel airguns.  You may even find a great deal on a used or refurbished one.

[Big Rick]

Do you think a tuning by someone who knows what they are doing should be in the budget as well? Or is the quality such that that is not needed?

[Acapulco]

There is plenty of info on the R7 on this site and the web. Careful with your research,  you'll discover the R8. The ole saying is...people settle for the R7 because they can't find a R8.

good luck

[SteveP-52]

Tuning is a personal choice not an absolute requirement even though a lot of owners do and it does make a lot of difference. My 95 has over 1500 shots and other than a set of Mac1 screw cups for the front stock screws is untouched. Will I someday when the fps starts to slow up or the spring breaks?? Of course. Just not feeling the need to now as it was a sweet shooter out of the box, still is and just seems to get better the more I shoot it.
Just my usual lame opinion but whatever you decide to buy, just shoot it, get used to it, have fun with it and decide later on whether you want to spend the $$'s to have a pro tune it for you.

[EMrider]

You can see below what I have. What I want to know is what quality differences should I expect in a RWS or similar rifle. I am going with .20 or .22. Please feel free to make suggestions, trying to stay under four bills.

IMHO, the German springers are worth the higher price.  The build quality is very high, they are durable and should serve you well for decades. 

If I had to select one German springer for my shooting needs (the horror), I'd go with the hw97k.  A close second choice would be the break barrel hw95.  Both guns use the same action and persoally I prefer the under lever design.

I think these springers are best in .177 and setup about 12fpe.  Great for target shooting or plinking and plenty of power for hunting small game out to 40 yards.

Check out Krale for the best prices.  I think you can find either or these options for under $400.

R

[TwiceHorn]

They are definitely a cut above in external fit and finish. But probably more importantly in internal finish.

It is the nature of springers that they may be a bit rough or crunchy or twangy out of the box.  But a Euro gun is more likely to shoot-in to something pretty sweet in as few as 50-100 pellets.

That said, you can still get a lemon from any manufacturer.  I think I would recommend shooting a couple hundred pellets, figure out if it still has any problems you don't like (twang, velocity, accuracy, etc.) before jumping into a tune.

[Sfttailrdr46]

Definitely German I have the Beeman .20 RX 2  with the HPA piston absolute tack driver . Had and traded a D34P with the synthetic stock which is the only reason I traded it away. That being said I just traded for a D34 T06 that had problems due to a bad home tune two or three owner's ago. I have since identified the underlying problems as being a bad (nicked seal) and weak spring. I also have D460 T06 and have enough confidence in the quality of the German rifles that I took the rifle knowing it had issues.

[bandg]

I have 2 Walther rifles as well as one Diana and one HW97 (listed in order of preference for me).  Quality on each noted is exellent and seems to be at least a few steps above many brands.  I have one .22 rifle and one pistol in that caliber and had a .20 years ago when they were first available.  I prefer .177 for air rifles/pistols in general for velocity/trajectory balance, maybe because I have plenty of firearms starting in .17/.22 for use if I need more energy than a .177 air gun provides. 

[kbstingwing]

I like the RED NECK Dictionary's Definition of European, YER-A-PEE'IN...... Yer-a-Pee'in on my leg... ....
 OK, back to the subject,
 Yes European Airguns can be a very nice investment to one's Airgun collection, I am partial to Weihrauch and Air Arms, they are works of art that shoot as well as they look, you can't go wrong buying either brand of these fine Airguns.....

[jusanothajoe]

Do you think a tuning by someone who knows what they are doing should be in the budget as well? Or is the quality such that that is not needed?

If you want the gun to be the best it can be YES !

[desmobob]

You can see below what I have. What I want to know is what quality differences should I expect in a RWS or similar rifle. I am going with .20 or .22. Please feel free to make suggestions, trying to stay under four bills.

I would recommend a Weihrauch (or Beeman) based on my experience.  My RWS D34 is certainly a step above the Turkish and Chinese rifles I have but I put my Weihrauchs and Beeman above it.  I believe you can get a new HW30, HW50 or HW95 in your budget range.  Check out Krale in the Netherlands for the lowest prices.

Good luck with your choice!

Tight groups,
Bob

[Big Rick]

Thank you to all that have replied. I decided on a Beeman R9 in .20 and have ordered same from PA. I look forward to receiving the gun in a couple of days and will post to the "What do you get?" thread.

[desmobob]

Thank you to all that have replied. I decided on a Beeman R9 in .20 and have ordered same from PA. I look forward to receiving the gun in a couple of days and will post to the "What do you get?" thread.

Nice!  I've come close to getting a Weihrauch in .20 a few times but get turned off by the premium price they charge for that caliber.  The Beeman should be a great shooter and, I'm sure, an interesting contrast to your Webley Valuemax .20!

Enjoy your new rifle in good health,
Bob

[SteveP-52]

Thank you to all that have replied. I decided on a Beeman R9 in .20 and have ordered same from PA. I look forward to receiving the gun in a couple of days and will post to the "What do you get?" thread.

Very nice, congrats!!

Thank you to all that have replied. I decided on a Beeman R9 in .20 and have ordered same from PA. I look forward to receiving the gun in a couple of days and will post to the "What do you get?" thread.

Nice!  I've come close to getting a Weihrauch in .20 a few times but get turned off by the premium price they charge for that caliber.  The Beeman should be a great shooter and, I'm sure, an interesting contrast to your Webley Valuemax .20!

Enjoy your new rifle in good health,
Bob

Owning both the Beeman R9 .20 (gotten from another GTA member) and 3 Valuemax .20's, there are most definitely some very major contrasts and don't even remotely compare to each other.
The VMX's for being inexpensive, $100 Turkish built .20's are still solid accurate shooters...at least my 3 are and they've been fun to tinker with between tuning one and gas ramming a second. I don't regret buying any of them.