0.177 vs 0.22 pellets, if the same weight and shape

[triggertreat]

I agree you still have to hit the off switch regardless.  .177. may rule to many, but I'm sticking with the .25 as my experience with it has proven to be a better critter getter.

Keith!!  I think it is advantageous to look more into that .177 debate.. I remember 35 to 40 years ago, it was the norm to buy .177 or .22 for hunting and not only that, it was the only caliber aviable for airgun PERIOD!! I cannot tell you how many small games I bring back home with my 1322 and Slavia..  The only thing that is not NEGOCIABLE with such low power is you have to do your part ..  But really, it makes you a better rifleman overall.

Yep, I started with the .177, then .22 and now .25.  All bring home the bacon when I do my part, more so with the .25, but they are not anymore dead than with the others.  My point was that with the .25 accuracy is not quite as critical though you still have to hit the off switch.  Somehow that got lost and became debated.

[anti-squirrel]

Well precision and energy are both important but of course if no precision then power is irrelevant. I wonder why UK shoots far with 12fpe, is it because their pellets have better BC? I would assume people here are just as accurate as Europeans, right?

In the UK, airgunner without a FAC license cannot shot airguns over 12 FPE.  Many shooters just skip getting FAC license and perform their pesting needs using what they already have.  You can, in some part, thank them for the quality and precision you see in modern airguns.

Everything is all about precision, regardless of caliber.  For me, I match the airgun and caliber and pellet to the intended target.   For many folks for many years, .177 for feather, .22 for fur.  .20 was a nice compromise, too.  Nowadays...  Larger calibers have opened up the doors- wide open! 

Since the thread is all about 177 vs 22 if they're the same weight... I let my gun decide what it shoots, because I want accuracy more than I want a given weight. 

[skorec]

Thanks all for excellent  explanation.
Unfortunately  extra heavy .177 pellets  are unstable  by using  standard  barrels.
I am thinking  that caliber .133 will be the future.

My BSA Buc loves the 15gr Sniper Magnums... I am pretty sure all BSA barrels are  1:19 twist... Pellets make their own rules as far as twist... they need very little in comparison to slugs/bullets...

then there are foster slugs that do well in the right smooth bore and they spin very slowly also...

Pellets  because they come in different head shapes, waist configuration etc in the end will like what they like at different velocities...

I have bolded Interesting info.

I was thinking why larger calibers are more accurate at the same FPE .
Pellets are stabilized by the  skirt   and  larger caliber has larger skirt.

https://www.pyramydair.com/air-gunsairsoft-schematics

[triggertreat]

Old vid but there is no replacement for displacement or in our case bore size

Great visual Matt that drives home my point I was trying to convey.

[skorec]

YES  but for the startle of starlings  1 FPE at 100 yard is enough.


What is your opinion on next :

“I was thinking why larger calibers are more accurate at the same FPE .
My opinion is that the pellets are stabilized mainly by the  skirt   and  larger caliber has larger skirt."

[Ribbonstone]

Problem with those vids is I'm not sure the energy level was the same.  And if it wasn't, then you might reverse the results if you used a 50 foot pound .22 vs a 35 foot pound .25.

Really what got me started with the same weight, same speed tests....I just wasn't seen that kind of difference when both the .22 and the .25 were of equal energy/pellet head shape.

[Wolverineshooter]

There were some confusions as why this question is raised, points were made that 0.177 and 0.22 were for different purposes and the scenario is hypothetical etc.

I am thinking getting PP700 pistol. I thought I settled on the 0.22, but still I have some questions on that, thinking 0.177 may achieve the same goal and with some advantages.

Both 0.177 and 0.22 have the same everything except barrel bore size. Now we have pellets of almost the same weight for the two calibers, I thought 0.177 with a smaller head will get less air resistance (true) and more stable (may not be true based on feedback, because of longer skirt). So if I can get them to fly at the same speed (so same power) then 0.177 can fly straighter and longer and with more hitting power. And also don't forget with the smaller head it gains more penetrating power to break some hard skulls.

However it is clear now we will not get the same power with the same amount of air release - 0.22 will get more muzzle energy than 0.177 and the advantages of 0.177 in air resistance probably is not sufficient to overcome the lower initial energy, at least in the shorter and medium distances.

So I think I will still choose 0.22 for the PP700.  If 0.177 has a longer barrel (30% longer than 0.22) then the initial energy will match 0.22, and 0.177 could be preferred.

[triggertreat]

If you are just punching paper,  I'd go with the .177 for more shot count per fill.  If you plan on doing some pesting too, I'd go with the .22.  The .22 will also be more fun on the reactive targets as well.

[ackuric]

Problem with those vids is I'm not sure the energy level was the same.  And if it wasn't, then you might reverse the results if you used a 50 foot pound .22 vs a 35 foot pound .25.

Really what got me started with the same weight, same speed tests....I just wasn't seen that kind of difference when both the .22 and the .25 were of equal energy/pellet head shape.

I won't go at length but trying to compare a high powered .22 cal to a under powered .25 cal is moot and not the reality we live in...nor does trying to put them on equal grounds/footing with power...bigger bores have more power for a reason and that is why we utilize them in the fashion we do...

The actual kill zone due to diameter of the wound channel being much greater the bigger the bore size is, should not be dismissed...the expansion from a .25 cal pellet when compared to an expanded .22 pellet will provide an INCREDIBLY larger wound channel/kill zone...to boot I've expanded a .25 cal pellet to .4" at just a mere 25 FPE,  The 'off' switch doesn't have to get hit 'hard', it just has to get hit...

Not sure why people insist on trying to compare one caliber to another...ballistics are very simple and there is a reason we use many different calibers in both air gunning and firearms....the most common small bore in firearms is .22 and those are laughed at by many hunters/firearm enthusiasts unless you're plinking cans with them  ....to sit around and debate which is potentially better in what scenario is more opinion than fact.

I personally have no bias towards any caliber but at the end of the day I know what each one is capable of and best suited for...

-Matt

[Ribbonstone]

Don't see why...a lot of out-the-box .25 shooters are getting about 40-43 foot pounds....are other .22 PCP's that will do that out the box...so it's not really an unfair comparsion.

Don't get me wrong...I do believe in big bullets...but they need to be seriously larger to be a noticeable difference. 

I can tell the critter reactions form a 25 foot pound .177 from a .25 foot pound .25.  HAve a harder time telling a 25 foot pound 5mm from a 25 foot pound .22  or a .40 foot pound .22 from a 40 foot pound .25(in fact...I can't).

So the little bit of fifference in diameter really is NOT as important, at least if the energy of the pellet at impact is nearly the same.

Lets just say we disagree.....but I've come to use 24-30 foot pound .177's more and more in the last few years...because it works for me.

[Wolverineshooter]

If you are just punching paper,  I'd go with the .177 for more shot count per fill.  If you plan on doing some pesting too, I'd go with the .22.  The .22 will also be more fun on the reactive targets as well.

Hunting is what is in my mind so 0.22

[triggertreat]

If you are just punching paper,  I'd go with the .177 for more shot count per fill.  If you plan on doing some pesting too, I'd go with the .22.  The .22 will also be more fun on the reactive targets as well.

Hunting is what is in my mind so 0.22

IMHO, that is the wiser choice.  Depending on the pistols tuning flexibility,   you can lower the power to extend the shot count for plinking or crank it up for good energy for hunting.  IIRC, from one video I watched, you should be able to get ~20 shots around 15 FPE in .22 caliber.  Probably can go higher,  but I'm not familiar with the pistol to know what it can really do.  I can say after watching the video, I would like to have one of those.  It looks great and a lot of fun.  Never had a pistol that I could air up, just co2.

[anti-squirrel]

Well, if the thought is on using a PP700 pistol...  Mine is a .177. 

It is just under a year old and has 20-something squirrels to date, a number of sparrows, some rats, mice, a copperhead, a hundred+ pigeons, and 1 starling.  It is accurate with 15 grain H&N Sniper Magnums, 13 grain Skenco New Boy pointed pellets, 11 grain BEeman Silver Arrow pointed, JSB Ultrashock hollowpoints, H&N Crow Magnums hollowpoints, JSB Exact Heavies, Crosman >anything< except Destroyers (and those even work under 15 yards), RWS Mesiterkugeln 7 grain wadcutters...

Basically, every pellet I pick up it shoot well.  Out of 19 total pellets, I can use 18 of them at 20 yards with lethal accuracy (meaning inside a nickel easily).  My preferred pellet is the JSB Ultrashock.  Though it is not the most accurate nor the heaviest, it hits a happy medium with accuracy, energy, and speed.

[Wolverineshooter]

Keith, 20 shots at 15fpe is about right. Wayne has it set that way and he gets 23 shots.

[Wolverineshooter]

Peter, so far I have heard consistently that SPA guns are not pellet picky. So I believe this is true for .22 as well. I was assessing which one is more energy efficient.  From the discussions it appears that .22 will be more efficient.

[anti-squirrel]

Peter, so far I have heard consistently that SPA guns are not pellet picky. So I believe this is true for .22 as well. I was assessing which one is more energy efficient.  From the discussions it appears that .22 will be more efficient.

Yup.  Pretty typical in PCPs for the .22 to have that edge.

I picked .177 for mine because- among other things-  I knew I would be less tempted to take longer shots on vermin.  Once I got mine and discovered just how accurate it was, I went ahead and gave in to temptation with excellent results.

I've been saying since I bought mine last October it's the best money in a PCP one can spend; nothing touches it at 2 times the cost once you factor in everything it comes with.  Adjustable everything, great accuracy, and nonsensitivity to pellet choices.  At the time I was leaning strongly toward a PRod... I made a spreadsheet with every PCP (rifle and pistol) I could find, then started adding points for features I wanted and were practical.  This came out on top.

[Wolverineshooter]

Peter, so far I have heard consistently that SPA guns are not pellet picky. So I believe this is true for .22 as well. I was assessing which one is more energy efficient.  From the discussions it appears that .22 will be more efficient.

Yup.  Pretty typical in PCPs for the .22 to have that edge.

I picked .177 for mine because- among other things-  I knew I would be less tempted to take longer shots on vermin.  Once I got mine and discovered just how accurate it was, I went ahead and gave in to temptation with excellent results.

I've been saying since I bought mine last October it's the best money in a PCP one can spend; nothing touches it at 2 times the cost once you factor in everything it comes with.  Adjustable everything, great accuracy, and nonsensitivity to pellet choices.  At the time I was leaning strongly toward a PRod... I made a spreadsheet with every PCP (rifle and pistol) I could find, then started adding points for features I wanted and were practical.  This came out on top.

I went through struggles as well, especially when the Prod was on sale this summer for sub $300. Prod is famous for its quietness. It also comes with stock for carbine conversion. For PP700 I will have to get a suppressor to use at home. The advantage is that the PP700 has a regulator, although it does not work as well.

[skorec]

What  about to start different  question.
Accuracy and loudness  .177 vs .22 bullets, if the same weight at  900 FPS

[rsterne]

Realistically, WHO CARES how a .177 compares to a .22 if the pellet or bullet weight and velocity is the same?.... One of the two, if not both, will be shooting with pellets/bullets so far from the optimum for that gun and caliber you are artificially skewing the results.... The .177 could probably perform better with a lighter pellet/bullet, and almost certainly the .22 cal would perform better with a heavier one.... and if allowed to do so, will surpass the .177 in FPE, but will use more air doing it....

Set up each caliber for it's optimum performance, regardless of the pellet/bullet weight required.... The .177 will be better for some jobs, and the .22 for others.... If you don't need high FPE, and want more shots, use the .177.... If you need the extra power, use the .22.... Why operate with one hand tied behind your back?.... I don't see the point.... JMO....

Bob

[skorec]

YES Bob , you have true for sure . I had been interesting just theoretically.

YES  but for the startle of starlings  1 FPE at 100 yard is enough.


What is your opinion on next :

“I was thinking why larger calibers are more accurate at the same FPE .
My opinion is that the pellets are stabilized mainly by the  skirt   and  larger caliber has larger skirt."