May Have Found My Messy, Oily Problem

[Booger]

Also, normally air flows VERY slowly through the Shoebox, when you open the system and flow air very fast it will take the oil with it.

Is this referring to bleeding off the pressure when done?  or something else?

I do not know, I hope Tom will reply. I do feel much better since he emailed me. My dealings with Tom is he is a stand up guy, and I will gladly do business with him again.

[Tom Kaye]

"Is this referring to bleeding off the pressure when done?  or something else?"

Either bleeding off the air through the vent or removing the hose and letting air flow through the system.  You always have the option to run the Shoebox completely dry and just replace the o-rings when necessary.

Tom Kaye

[Taso1000]

So are we better off using lithium grease for our Shoebox compressors? 

Thanks,

Taso

[Tom Kaye]

So are we better off using lithium grease for our Shoebox compressors? 

Depends on your goals. Lithium grease is an option because it will move SLOWER through the system. If  you want to reduce the lubrication factor in the air stream you can do that. The other option is a high pressure filter. Joe Brancato sells a nice one.

Tom Kaye

[Taso1000]

Mr. Kaye,

First off thank you for joining GTA and helping out in our dilemmas.   

So if we leave the Shoebox compressor pressurized via a shutoff valve post output to stop flow through and bleed lines after the shutoff, will that stop the bulk of the silicone oil output?

Would Krytox or Ultimox work better than white lithium grease if we choose to go back to the grease instead of silicone?

Thank you,

Taso

[FuzzyGrub]

I think I'll stay with the silicone oil, and keep an eye on it.   I have a bleed at the output of the SB, that was added for gun fills, so will start to use that vs the bottle bleed.  Also, will raise the bottle above the SB when filling.  That should minimize oil migration.  I'll do a bottle check latter this year, ie bleed down, remove valve and check for oil.   If it looks to be an issue, then pull the wicks and will go back to lithium.  I run without the cover on the max, so greasing before each fill, is really not an issue.  The main reason I went to silicone, was the cylinder O-rings seem to be lasting longer, from reports. 

In a non-regulated gun, not too worried about the oil.  I am concerned it would cause problems with a reg, if it can get in there. 

[rnabholz]

For those concerned about the oil passing, it seems to me that the solution is simple. Filter the output.

I understand the reluctance to drop many hundreds of dollars on a high side filter offered by some vendors.  But the Chinese gold filter, and some 13x media will run you about $80, as discussed here:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=126349.0

It extracts water and oil in the 13x media and paper tampons and so directly addresses the concerns raised by the original poster.

Tom can't win, we are holding his product to a standard that is unobtainable.  As mentioned earlier, no HPA compressor's output is free of oil and water UNLESS filtered after compression.  Some compressors build that filtration into the unit, some leave the user to decide how clean and dry they need their air to be.

I am glad to have the choice of the affordable price point of my Shoebox Max with the option to enhance it as I see fit based on my choices and needs. I couldn't justify $3K for a scuba compressor,  but I could see $1k for my fully outfitted, low and high side filtered Shoebox and shop compressor, and I am very happy with it.

[Booger]

For those concerned about the oil passing, it seems to me that the solution is simple. Filter the output.

I understand the reluctance to drop many hundreds of dollars on a high side filter offered by some vendors.  But the Chinese gold filter, and some 13x media will run you about $80, as discussed here:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=126349.0

It extracts water and oil in the 13x media and paper tampons and so directly addresses the concerns raised by the original poster.

Tom can't win, we are holding his product to a standard that is unobtainable.  As mentioned earlier, no HPA compressor's output is free of oil and water UNLESS filtered after compression.  Some compressors build that filtration into the unit, some leave the user to decide how clean and dry they need their air to be.

I am glad to have the choice of the affordable price point of my Shoebox Max with the option to enhance it as I see fit based on my choices and needs. I couldn't justify $3K for a scuba compressor,  but I could see $1k for my fully outfitted, low and high side filtered Shoebox and shop compressor, and I am very happy with it.

I sold my High Pressure filter system and kept my low pressure filter system. I think I will be just fine because of the slow fill and my tank above my shoebox. Water flows down better than up because of gravity. JMHO

Come to think of it:

Water drippin' up the spout
But I don't care, let it all hang out

[rnabholz]

Yes, gravity can be our friend, and long air lines, and big shop compressor tanks that allow cooling, etc.

I start on the floor with the shop compressor, then up to a M30, filter, up to a water separator, up to the high side filter, and up to the scba cylinder.

It is simple and all works to our advantage.

[Taso1000]

Rod,

My planned Shoebox setup will take advantage of gravity.  I have an Alpha filter and it will be mounted at the highest point and a drip leg at the lowest. 

My concern was the amounts of silicone oil the OP had.  That amount would quickly fill the molecular sieve to capacity.  I don't know if you could regenerate out the silicone oil with heat.  Replacement cartridges with molecular sieve only can be had for $28.  Continuously replacing cartridges will get expensive fast.

If grease or no lubricant will give me what I want then I am satisfied with that.  That was my intent.  I bought the Shoebox because of the value, simplicity and it's made and supported in the U.S.

Thanks,

Taso

[FuzzyGrub]

I'll be very interested in the OP results when he breaks down the gun.   I would suspect we will see that the inlet filter in the foster fill assy will have evidence of the oil, but very unsure if it can get into reg or not.  Now, I use a generous amount of silicone oil and grease on gun assembly.  But it provides a layer of protection, and have not had issues from it. 

I'd suspect that those inner O-rings would not last long with no lubrication.  I would try those expensive lubes (krytox) before going dry. 

[rnabholz]

I can't explain the slime the OP reports.  Granted, I am only 25 hours into my experience with the Shoebox, but with the exception of the mild discoloration on the tampon, I have seen no evidence of that sort of lube migration.

In about another 12 hours run time, I will conduct my experiment again, weighing the media, baking it to recharge and weighing it again.  If that process shows a weight gain, then perhaps that means the media is holding lubes that cannot be eliminated.  We will have to wait on that opportunity for now.

Yes, the Alpha cartridges would be expensive to replace if that proves to be necessary on an accelerated basis.  The media I purchased for the gold filter for $22 would fill the filter many times, perhaps making it a better choice in that circumstance.

There are so many variables with the use of these compressors, filling a gun or 88cf tanks, in Arizona or Louisiana, meticulous or lax maintenance, etc.  It will never be possible to do much more than monitor your own rig and come to your own conclusions.

A good deal of my experience has been shared, through the Compressor Log that I made public and remains open to view, and the Chinese Dryer Filter Hack thread.  As I mentioned earlier, my results are unique to my circumstances, all are welcome to draw their own conclusions about how it might or might not work for them.

Rod

[Back_Roads]

 Right off the bat I went with Joes High side filter, , I did Get Cinsiderable water/oil mix on my first bleed off, from filling a full size 3000 psi scuba tank from empty. was a milky looking substance and about a teaspoons worth, eww But have very little on subsequent top offs. but nothing makes it to my tanks, thanks to Joes high side filters and regular inspections.

[rnabholz]

Right off the bat I went with Joes High side filter, , I did Get Cinsiderable water/oil mix on my first bleed off, from filling a full size 3000 psi scuba tank from empty. was a milky looking substance and about a teaspoons worth, eww But have very little on subsequent top offs. but nothing makes it to my tanks, thanks to Joes high side filters and regular inspections.

Which compressor are you running?

[Back_Roads]

 The F10 Shoebox