Velocity -> HW30S .22 Caliber

[Bryan Heimann]

What gets me right here is I believe you know I am right, and in fact we've had this very conversation several times over the years and figured this out at the lower power levels on this forum.

Yep, .22 has more potential in the wind.  Not at/under 12 fpe though, if you are slinging the top domes in each caliber.

The jsb 7.9 are great pellets but they are not even near the top performers in wind.  They are too light.

[Bryan Heimann]

Plug them in.  Don't use the ligtweiggt express.

I have and I'm right according to Chairgun.  I am just saying...

[Bryan Heimann]

Here is what I got at 8.5 fpe, jsb exact heavy in .177 and .22.

This is what field target has done to .177 domes.

[Bryan Heimann]

And here are 8.44's vs 15.9's.  A tie.

[Bryan Heimann]

I bet you the .177 edges them out at 6 fpe in even a greater variety of pellets.

Real world the springer will likely be a littlemore powerful in .22 but will it be enough to beat the wind better?  Or just a tie?

In practice the difference in the wind is probably hardly measurable at HW30 range but it is there

[SpiralGroove]

Kirk make sure u tell us how or what u think about the .22cal conversion!

Hey Mark,
I'm not sure what you mean, except that I converted my HW30S, HW35E, HW50S and HW95 to .22 caliber back in 2017.  After shooting them for awhile, I unconverted all of them back to .177 caliber.  I much prefer .177 caliber for smaller power plants and .20 caliber for the HW80.
I'm not a big fan of .22 caliber as I don't hunt, even though they are easier to load . 

[Bryan Heimann]

Here are Crosman premiers in .177 and .22.

Even with a very marginal advantage in power level, the .22 still drifts almost twice as bad as the .177 in the same conditions.


So what has been proven?

[Bryan Heimann]

Look back at the .25 springers.  At spring power levels the .25's not so good until you close in on or exceed 30 fpe and the .25 domes suddenly all break .030 and better coefficients.

At 20 fpe, they just can't.  Less than that and it's worse.

It's not as cut and dry as it appears.

[Bryan Heimann]

Comparing apples to apples, under 10 fpe the .177 is the clear winner in the wind.  And that has been proven.

Edit-  waiting for the 20 cal afficionados to straighten me out on this one.  I don't know anything about how it will compare here.

[SpiralGroove]

What gets me right here is I believe you know I am right.

Hey Bryan,
The only reason I entered into this conversation is that you like to argue with other members .
Most of us here want to know the truth without emotion guff or baggage.

I think our conversation on the merits of .177 caliber pellet bucking the wind better than .22 caliber is moot at best. There are likely velocity exceptions or pellet exceptions where .177 beats .22 caliber, but when you use the terms Crush and Squash, you suggest it's a much broader exception that's untrue.

Kirk

What I'd like to see is for you to turn down the tone of your dialog to be more GTA friendly    

[SpiralGroove]

Here are Crosman premiers in .177 and .22.

Even with a very marginal advantage in power level, the .22 still drifts almost twice as bad as the .177 in the same conditions.


So what has been proven?

This example suggest the 7.9 grain pellet has a higher BC than the 14.33 grain?
I don't think so ..........

[Bryan Heimann]

At this power level they do.

It is cute, you getting emotional and projecting it on me.

Arguments with other members... i normally just stop clicking those threads.

The argument on the mass and etc bears merit.  Older pellet designs it is still true.

With today's best modern dome pellets, at lower power levels the .177 just edges them out.  Not because .177 is inherently better, but because the pellets are better.

[Bryan Heimann]

I know you've got too much skin in the game to concede the point.  Especially just getting started as a tuner.

But I won't just watch the misinformation spread and keep my "mouth" shut.

[Bryan Heimann]

But yeah, what a low blow.

Accuse me of picking arguments with other members, and use that as a tool to end/win the debate?

That's weak brother.  Had a ton of respect for you... still have some 

[Bryan Heimann]

If the results with .177 premiers vs .22 hurts your brain, plug in the 7.9 .177's vs the 10.5 .177 premiers.

The 7.9 premier beats it.  Chairgun used to include another factor called "wsf".  I can't remember exactly what it stood for but basically is a measure of resistance to wind drift, ballistic coefficients not withstanding.  But long story short, just because a pellet retains energy better downrange doesn't mean it does better in the wind, and I thin that can be attribute to thesoze of the skirt and the size of the hollow cavity and etc.  it's not like bullets that are solid.

7.9 grain brown box premiers were engineered for field target, plain and simple.  At HFT power levels, they are hard to beat for wind drift.

[Mark 611]

Hey Kirk I just noticed this thread was started back in July 3 2017 my bad

[SpiralGroove]

If the results with .177 premiers vs .22 hurts your brain, plug in the 7.9 .177's vs the 10.5 .177 premiers.

The 7.9 premier beats it.  Chairgun used to include another factor called "wsf".  I can't remember exactly what it stood for but basically is a measure of resistance to wind drift, ballistic coefficients not withstanding.  But long story short, just because a pellet retains energy better downrange doesn't mean it does better in the wind, and I thin that can be attribute to thesoze of the skirt and the size of the hollow cavity and etc.  it's not like bullets that are solid.

7.9 grain brown box premiers were engineered for field target, plain and simple.  At HFT power levels, they are hard to beat for wind drift.

Hey Guys,
Not trying to dig this up for argument sake, but it would be nice if Laid Over (or someone who understands chairgun well) could come up with some Top (.177 cal.) domed pellets which beat .22 caliber domed  pellets at bucking the wind at lower velocities.

Since I stepped away from shooting PCP's in 2016, I have missed many of the updated ballistic information/results touted by the Blue Teddy Bear in the PCP gate or Bob's own Gate.

A few rules of thumb (pellet choices & velocities) where you're better off (wind drift wise) with .177 over .22 caliber.   Let's also trying to keep shooting distances in the gun's normal range as most shooters will not shoot CPL or CPH out of a HW30S at 60 yards.

I would love to see this and I'm sure newer members would like to understand the trade-off thresholds when buying an airgun (.177 vs. .22) or pellets in each of these guns.

[fwbsport]

Gotta chime in again, the .22 v the .177 in the HW30 seems to most favor the .177, and perhaps even the .20, but in .22 most overlook it thinking it's too slow.  I miss the targets more with the HW30 .177 and the R7 more than with the HW30S .22.  Any of my .177s will frustrate me despite doing well because they shift enough whether by wind or temperature or sensitivity to stay consistently "cannon balling" the steel targets like a slow .22.

I've shot at knots at close and far distances 5 to 10 times with each rifle and the .22s are always consistent to remind me it's NOT me! (NOOOO! It's not all about me! ), it's the tiny little pellet.

So I've been shooting .25s out a HW95L and now we're talking! Those little steel circles when placed right in my open sights ('issued') SLAM without deviation of pellet!  Now this is a BIGGER pellet being more accurate here!

Guess what? The HW95L .25 is TOP GUN in this house followed by the .20 HW80 and the HW30S .22 and then the HW35Es and the rest I guess.

You'll say it won't last as top gun as soon as another arrives but I think I know what people have been saying about the HW95--something along the lines to "end it and get an HW95L!"

[Bryan Heimann]

Kirk, i agree, at the same velocity the .22 probably wins.

It is a fallacy because none of these guns throw them the same velocity!

[SpiralGroove]

Kirk, i agree, at the same velocity the .22 probably wins.

It is a fallacy because none of these guns throw them the same velocity!

If the results with .177 premiers vs .22 hurts your brain, plug in the 7.9 .177's vs the 10.5 .177 premiers.

The 7.9 premier beats it.  Chairgun used to include another factor called "wsf".  I can't remember exactly what it stood for but basically is a measure of resistance to wind drift, ballistic coefficients not withstanding.  But long story short, just because a pellet retains energy better downrange doesn't mean it does better in the wind, and I thin that can be attribute to thesoze of the skirt and the size of the hollow cavity and etc.  it's not like bullets that are solid.

7.9 grain brown box premiers were engineered for field target, plain and simple.  At HFT power levels, they are hard to beat for wind drift.

************************************************************************************************
Hey Guys,
Not trying to dig this up for argument sake, but it would be nice if Laid Over (or someone who understands chairgun well) could come up with some Top (.177 cal.) domed pellets which beat .22 caliber domed  pellets at bucking the wind at lower velocities.

Since I stepped away from shooting PCP's in 2016, I have missed many of the updated ballistic information/results touted by the Blue Teddy Bear in the PCP gate or Bob's own Gate.

A few rules of thumb (pellet choices & velocities) where you're better off (wind drift wise) with .177 over .22 caliber.   Let's also trying to keep shooting distances in the gun's normal range as most shooters will not shoot CPL or CPH out of a HW30S at 60 yards.

I would love to see this and I'm sure newer members would like to understand the trade-off thresholds when buying an airgun (.177 vs. .22) or pellets in each of these guns.

****************************************************************************