Price has been high cause of relative low demand, not hype. Now that the components and the technology to mass produce them in huge numbers, the price will drop, and drop fast.When you produce anything in low numbers the overhead is high, the tooling cost, and manufacturing cost is handed down pr. unit produced, so if you dont produce a whole lot, that overhead is very high driving up the price.Now there is other factors like QC, quality, sophistication, materials, and other things that also either drive up or lower the cost pr. unit.But saying the price is high due to a hyped marked is false.
Quote from: TOMGWhen you see prices go below 500$ on PCP air rifles you will also see quality go down ten fold as well. Corners will be cut, mass produced or not, material quality will be sacrificed, and I'd hate to see any of them try to compete next to another pcp with match grade trigger and barrel.No need to build your own for 500 when you can ride the Gauntlet Gravey train at 299.00I am sure there will be some junk ones during the fallout. But scopes have come down in price quite a bit and yes some junk in there but I think you can get more for your money in the mid range than 20 years ago.I paid 1300 for a Daystate Regal XL only to see the price plummet to 999.00. I don't know, are the new regals not as good as my 2013 one? Are they using balsa wood stocks? They found a way. Would not want to be a dealer stuck with old $1300 stock.Maybe my gun was a bit over priced to begin with, its devalued now but I don't care if it means more shooters. Low price PCP entry is a good thing for all. They know they will want to move up the PCP food chain and will have the high ticket guns waiting.
When you see prices go below 500$ on PCP air rifles you will also see quality go down ten fold as well. Corners will be cut, mass produced or not, material quality will be sacrificed, and I'd hate to see any of them try to compete next to another pcp with match grade trigger and barrel.
Ackruic, supply and demand set the pricing.If you can make 20.000 triggers cause the demand is there, you can do it in such a way that CPA is getting very low, and you could sell the same triggers for $45.50 rather than $100Daystate, Airarms and other high priced rifles should almost be considered custom rifles due to their low production numbers.I work for a company that makes products, and we produce between 4 & 5 million products annually which drives down cost of goods.If we only made say 5000 annually the cost pr. unit would be much much higher.
Quote from: TOMGPrice has been high cause of relative low demand, not hype. Now that the components and the technology to mass produce them in huge numbers, the price will drop, and drop fast.When you produce anything in low numbers the overhead is high, the tooling cost, and manufacturing cost is handed down pr. unit produced, so if you dont produce a whole lot, that overhead is very high driving up the price.Now there is other factors like QC, quality, sophistication, materials, and other things that also either drive up or lower the cost pr. unit.But saying the price is high due to a hyped marked is false.Pcp prices are certainly not high because of relative low demand....that is so absurd to say, I can name countless products that have low demand and low price, basically an attempt to give the product away for a fraction of profit.That is not economically sound nor how economics works...its also not due to any low supplies.Good quality barrels alone cost 100$+Quality triggers alone cost 100$+Stocks 100$+Valve + hammer system 100$+Breach / cocking system = 100$+Bam you're at 500$ in r&d, manufacturing/labor, materials, and overhead in parts and you haven't even began looking at profit margins, and, and...you think these rifles are expensive and simple? Lol, then go build one from scratch with appeal to a market and make $.When you see prices go below 500$ on PCP air rifles you will also see quality go down ten fold as well. Corners will be cut, mass produced or not, material quality will be sacrificed, and I'd hate to see any of them try to compete next to another pcp with match grade trigger and barrel.
Buying directly from china is almost always cheaper in every scenario. You buy straight from the manufacturer instead of a middle man who is seeking 200-300% profit margins and you see 1500$ compressors for 500$ and 1000$ compressors for 300-400$.It's been this way for a very long time.They can and do steal ideas from others and copy their product almost to the T. Guess where most companies outsource their manufacturing to? China. I'd rather buy a no brand copy for 1/3-1/2 the cost, because that is just that many less meals or quality of meals its taking off my dinner table at the end of the day/week/month/year/lifetime, so long as quality is not compromised and I achieve the same results.
As Rob was mentioning, cost of materials stays somewhat the same, although you are in a much better position to negotiate 40 ton of aluminum vs. 500 lbs.Toolcost, molds, machinery, engineering to make a part is X, but when you mass produce something fast, that cost can be negated by the speed of which you make it. Simple example, if an injection mold cost you 100K to make, and you can only sell 1000 products for the life cycle of that product, you have an overhead in that department alone of $1000 pr. unit.
Quote from: Tomg on March 29, 2017, 06:00:45 PMIf you want my speculation on it...Crossman isn't sleeping very well at the moment, they know what the Gauntlet is, and what is represent. I think it was one of the, if not the primary reason for them canceling certain "new" products like the regulated Marauder, since they knew they where no longer competitive on price.In the next year or two we'll probably see nicer budget PCP's in the 300 +/- $75 coming from several companies, including Crossman. As it grows we will likely see compressors at more normal price levels being offered as well. It's all about the market hitting its critical mass.agreed.. were already seeing chinese compressors for the home user in the 200-300 dollar range, if they can do it , so can a lot of domestic companies.. And , although ive been alone on this , ive always thought PCP,s were way overpriced when you factor in the simplicity of design , and the amount of moving parts involved.People have long thought that the PCP tube was some kind of ubertanium not sold to the general public , along with other myths that justified the prices.
If you want my speculation on it...Crossman isn't sleeping very well at the moment, they know what the Gauntlet is, and what is represent. I think it was one of the, if not the primary reason for them canceling certain "new" products like the regulated Marauder, since they knew they where no longer competitive on price.In the next year or two we'll probably see nicer budget PCP's in the 300 +/- $75 coming from several companies, including Crossman. As it grows we will likely see compressors at more normal price levels being offered as well. It's all about the market hitting its critical mass.
Ok, guys we are splitting hairs here.The point is that if there is sufficient market demand, the way of making something opens opportunities to produce in a way that lowers prices that would otherwise be unattainable.And, yes Steven, if you where looking at ONLY producing 1000 pieces, you would not spend 100K on a mold, but find another appropriate way, but that wasn't the point of the example given.Anyway, I don not need to argue, I do this thing day in and day out, so if it is hard to understand, I apologize.
Quote from: Rob M on March 29, 2017, 06:19:45 PMQuote from: Tomg on March 29, 2017, 06:00:45 PMIf you want my speculation on it...Crossman isn't sleeping very well at the moment, they know what the Gauntlet is, and what is represent. I think it was one of the, if not the primary reason for them canceling certain "new" products like the regulated Marauder, since they knew they where no longer competitive on price.In the next year or two we'll probably see nicer budget PCP's in the 300 +/- $75 coming from several companies, including Crossman. As it grows we will likely see compressors at more normal price levels being offered as well. It's all about the market hitting its critical mass.agreed.. were already seeing chinese compressors for the home user in the 200-300 dollar range, if they can do it , so can a lot of domestic companies.. And , although ive been alone on this , ive always thought PCP,s were way overpriced when you factor in the simplicity of design , and the amount of moving parts involved.People have long thought that the PCP tube was some kind of ubertanium not sold to the general public , along with other myths that justified the prices. The only real problem with the chinnese compressors is the shipping. It cost as much as the compressor in not more. Getting parts for them is another thing.
Quote from: Tomg on March 29, 2017, 07:58:02 PMOk, guys we are splitting hairs here.The point is that if there is sufficient market demand, the way of making something opens opportunities to produce in a way that lowers prices that would otherwise be unattainable.And, yes Steven, if you where looking at ONLY producing 1000 pieces, you would not spend 100K on a mold, but find another appropriate way, but that wasn't the point of the example given.Anyway, I don not need to argue, I do this thing day in and day out, so if it is hard to understand, I apologize.I was just agreeing with you. Sorry if that was unclear. My frustration was with the fellow who claimed production cost for 5K and 5MM units was the same.
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