eBay compressor

[Jman2311]

Shultz. I hope it didn't seem as if I am trying to get into a I'm right your wrong ruler match.  That is not my intent at all.  The way this cooling system is basically is a volume of water must be able to absorb the total heat losses of the compressor.  The heat the water rejects to the atmosphere is negligible.  I am not sure what water source you are using but I do well with a 5 gallon bucket full of water from an outdoor spigot.  It keeps my unit mostly below 40C. Granted I have to change the water at 15 minutes if I run that long.

I also don't want to seem like what I am saying is opinion.  It's physics. I work in the pharma industry with a focus in automation.  Heat exchangers are not uncommon to me, in several various forms.  I hope to be a help as that is all I was trying to do. 

[Buldawg76]

Everyone here has good points on how is the best way to remove heat from the head of theses compressors so don't think anyone is right or wrong specifically. The only true way to know is to experiment with different setup and flow rate and watch the results. I was hoping to be able to do them myself soon but just found out that the compressor I bought for the super price of 69 bucks shipped will not likely ever show up and I received my refund from eBay for that compressor. Bummer.

In regards to a car engine and said cooling system working at idle versus at speed down the road with higher revs from the engine. That's why there is a thermostat in the engine to control the flow rate at which the coolant can flow thru the engine. Yes with higher revs the water pump spins faster which tries to speed up the flow but the block, water pump passages and thermostat all restrict that flow so that it can only move so fast regardless of how fast the engine is turning. That's is exactly why a engine without any thermostat at all is slow to warm up and will likely eventually run to hot if not overheat because the coolant is moving to fast thru the engine and radiator to shed the little bit of heat it picked up out of the engine. There has to be a balance between flow volume and speed in order for the system or any system to work at peak efficiency. This is why some vehicles have a larger radiator than others so the whole system is balanced to work at its best. Today new cars on running on the ragged edge of overheating all the time with just barely enough radiator to do the job and will overheat with very little loss of coolant from the system as compared to 20 years ago. 

The main issue is the overall surface area available in the small size of the cooling system of these compressors so to get the best transfer of heat from the metal to the coolant there is an optimal flow that is required for that to occur. The volume of the  compressor is fixed so the flow rate is all that can be changed to gain the most efficiency from the system. The pump that comes with these compressor may be at the optimal flow rate but also may not be. Since the container that each person chooses to use is the radiator of the system it stand to reason that some will work better than others.

I will state that I am and always have been anal when it comes to the toys in my life so if it can be improved ( I have yet to find anything that cannot be improved )  it will be by me before I am completely satisfied. To be honest I am rarely fully satisfied and am always tinkering to make my toys better all the time. Just the way I am till the day I die.

Mike

[Jman2311]

Again at the risk of stirring the pot.  If everything in a car's cooling system is good except the thermostat is missing,  the engine will usually run cooler.  Thermostats maintain temperatures where by you get the most efficiency.  Please, do not worry about flow rate. It makes no difference in this application.  If your unit runs hot you have one of 2 options that you can use in conjunction.  You may increase the volume of cooling water and/or decrease temperature of the cooling water. 

[bandg]

You're not stirring the pot.  Just offering ideas.  That's what such a forum is for.  I'll still disagree with most of what you've said but that is OK too.  Just as you know that flow rate is not important in this application, I know that coolant flowing too fast through a car radiator may not have time to be cooled by the available air flow and heat soak can gradually occur.  I've seen that so I know it can happen.  What is happening in this compressor situation is not as clear to me but I will always believe that flow rate is not optimal just because it is fast.  Maybe it is optimal as set up and if it works for everyone that's all that is important.  Hope yours continues functioning great for a long time. 

[Buldawg76]

Again at the risk of stirring the pot.  If everything in a car's cooling system is good except the thermostat is missing,  the engine will usually run cooler.  Thermostats maintain temperatures where by you get the most efficiency.  Please, do not worry about flow rate. It makes no difference in this application.  If your unit runs hot you have one of 2 options that you can use in conjunction.  You may increase the volume of cooling water and/or decrease temperature of the cooling water.

Jeremy
No pot stirring to worry about here. But being a auto technician for 45 years I will disagree with you on not having a thermostat will make the car run cooler is just not true. I wish I had 100 bucks for all the cars I had to repair cracked heads or blown head gaskets from the thermostat being removed which lead to them overheating. The older cars ( 60/70s ) were less prone to it due to the cooling system being way oversized for its purpose with three and four core radiators being the norm. But in the 80s and up they stated downsizing every thing to save weight, production cost and fluid capacities. So those cars are much more susceptible to overheating from no control of the coolant flow when driving. Since the mid 90s the cooling systems are just capable of keeping the engine temps under control as long as they are full and all components are in place and unrestricted. Most all passenger car and truck radiators now are a single core of cooling tubes that are barely able to keep the cars temps in check.

Take the thermostat out of any new car and it will overheat in short order since the coolant will not absorb enough of the engine heat to the coolant or transfer enough of the heat to the air thru the radiator. Under hood temps as well as engine temps are much hotter now than older cars as well with 220 degrees being the normal cooling temps versus old cars being at 160 degrees.  I am only going by 45 years experience fixing all makes of cars from the 60s up until the early 2000 models..

I also worked in a research and development facility as a durability technician and worked daily with engineers in diagnosing failures on Harley motorcycles. In my time there I helped develop the Vrod Harley  engine and proved to the powertrain engineers that just because there cad/cam programs showed that the design will work in theory does not mean it will in execution many many times. Theory and physics are all required and necessary but are not absolute in application or execution.

Its what makes this country great is that we all can think and believe what we choose and agree to disagree with out fear of repercussions for the most part anyway.

Mike     

[Killfire]

You could just buy a cheap mini fridge and stick the compressor in that. Plumb the coolant water through a coil in the freezer. Would be quieter and cooler!

[Jman2311]

We can argue the point of thermostats all day but that doesn't help anyone on their compressor.  The simple fact is that if you want colder head temps then the 2 surefire things you can do is increase the volume of your cooling water (as in go from 2.5 gallons to 5 gallons) and/or make that cooling water colder with ice or more frequent changes of that water.  I do not wish to give speculation or beliefs, I don't post much unless I have on good authority that the advise I give will work.  Of course there are times where I miss the mark but on this one, I'm not.  Flow rate will do much less for you than the actual water you are using.

[bandg]

It's an opinion Jeremy and you're welcome to it but don't confuse it with a fact, simple or otherwise.   You are not necessarily right about the compressor (although you could be) and I believe you are dead wrong as your view of the auto system shows you don't understand it but think that you do.  Best of luck.

[Jman2311]

It's an opinion Jeremy and you're welcome to it but don't confuse it with a fact, simple or otherwise.   You are not necessarily right about the compressor (although you could be) and I believe you are dead wrong as your view of the auto system shows you don't understand it but think that you do.  Best of luck.

I don't know why you keep insisting that what I am saying is an opinion.  It's not my word, it is physics.  You may experiment how you wish but if you do what I suggested you will have a cooler head temperature on your compressor for longer before you get to a point where you need to change the water for cooler water.  To the point about the thermostats,  I did say usually.  If a car overheats with no thermostat it is due to another variable, not necessarily flow rate.  The physics on the pump alone could make you go cross-eyed and when you add all of the other variable like the plumbing, volume, composition of the coolant, and so one things get deep quick.  That is why engineers design these things to work optimally.  You can figure all this out for yourself but if you want real answers on this, talk to a seasoned HVAC tech.  Thermal transfer using a fluid is what they do and it is a very complicated thing if you go into it without prerequisite knowledge.  I'm sorry to burst your bubble here but I am not wrong on this one and you'll do yourself well to do some more digging before you use the term opinion again.  I don't see you offering a solution, you're speculating plain and simple and I might add that you're doing so with what seems to be very little knowledge to back it up.

I should have ended my last post with if the flow rate goes sufficiently low then you will have much higher head temperatures.  You do best here leaving well enough alone as in the water pump and focus your attention to the water.  It has the added benefit of not costing you any more money up front (other than the fraction of a penny for the 5 gallons of water you'll use from a tap, which for most of us is negligible.)

[bandg]

"That is why engineers design these things to work optimally"-on a forum that often discusses modification as much as anything.  Entertaining.  What you are stating is your opinion only and indicates to me that you don't understand the physics much like the automotive analogy.  I would only change my view on that with verifiable hard data, not someones opinion.  Could you be correct about the compressor?  Yes but I think not and that is why the issue was raised.  But keep on keeping on.  My compressor functions fine for my needs and I'm not inclined to perform any experiments to verify.  If you think that you KNOW what is accurate then feel free to prove it. 

[shultz]

I think we've gotten way off track here guys, might be best if we all just let this go before Ken's post gets locked....


My High side filter has shipped! not sure how long it will take to get here(seller stated 20-38 days) but at least it's moving toward the US

Should get my Ebay sieve today. It will be prepped and waiting for the filter.

[bandg]

A voice of reason.  Thanks and let's let it go.

[Killfire]

Well my guppy tank needed some air so I decided to fill it back up. I have the tuxing so secondary head is different.

What I found was varying the flow did nothing until it was restricted so much temps really started to rise. Unrestricted, the tempo dropped back down.

Average head temp was ~42*C being 62*F out. I verified with an infrared thermometer and the difference between the two sensors is negligible.

The majority of the heat comes from the first stage compressor where I measured 70*C average. I believe heat soak is coming into play here. I think adding increased air flow over the first stage would help temps.

Again I have the tuxing and heat hasn't been an issue yet. With the different designs I can't test anything that would be applicable to the yong heng. Hope this helps somehow though.

[Jman2311]

The Tuxing has the advantage of a very much larger volume of water in the head itself.  The Yong Heng style will benefit from a greater flow to make up for its lack of volume.

You're right about that first stage.  The amount of heat coming from the 1st stage pressure release is very high when I got to tighten or loosen it up.  Haven't measured it but it can be almost too hot to touch. 

[bandg]

Jason, that is my current plan for additional cooling safety margin-an added fan.  Especially since as noted earlier the hottest spot on my Tuxing is always the SS line running from top to bottom of the upper cylinder (maybe better to call it the head) but that line does get very hot (water dropped on it will sizzle off).  I haven't seen sensor indicated temps above upper 50'sC using room temp water with WaterWetter added but anything to remove heat should help extend useful life.  I don't run the compressor for more than about 3 minutes max for my current filling needs and usually 2 minutes or less to top off the largest rifle reservoir and well less than 1 minute to top off a pp700 pistol.  Certainly adding ice to the water should help as well.  I have a couple of PC power supply fans around the shop and plan to add a bracket to hold one blowing on the cooling fins and head as much as possible. 

[PushingPELLETS]

Ok so after a few more run times and a few experiments...using the included pump in a bigger container of water 10gal instead of 5gal and slowing the included pump from full flow to about 3/4 and an additional personal fan of maybe 6-8in diameter blowing directly on the head of compressor overall temps have dropped... Next i am going to try to use a cooling additive and see if it helps any more... I believe everyone here has good ideas as far as cooling. i think its going to be finding a system that will work for each individual compressor overall i am very happy with the unit for the price and my use i will continue to try keeping it cool the best i can just for a longevity stand point...i will update with anything else that may help better or worse....still happy with performance beats hand pumping... awaiting for my chinese drier....lastly is there anywhere good to pick up decent molecular sieve material

Thanks guys

[Killfire]

I've seen people buying it from eBay. I purchased a smaller amount from Amazon.

[shultz]

Chris,

Here's a link to what I ordered. I think this is the same person other's have purchased from for the filter hack.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-lbs-Molecular-Zeolite-Beads-Type-13X/311845008955?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

My sieve should deliver today. My filter housing won't be here for several weeks though...

[Buldawg76]

Chris,

Here's a link to what I ordered. I think this is the same person other's have purchased from for the filter hack.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-lbs-Molecular-Zeolite-Beads-Type-13X/311845008955?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

My sieve should deliver today. My filter housing won't be here for several weeks though...

The 13X medium is what I bought for use with my shoebox since it has the highest absorption rate for H2O only and does not readily absorb other chemical vapors. In the shoebox system there are no chemical vapors to worry about if you use an oil less first stage compressor. So all that's in my HPA filter is the 13X medium. In these Chinese compressor that use oil lubrication it would be wise to add about 1/4 of the internal volume of the filter with activated charcoal to capture the chemical vapors. There are also other molecular mediums that absorb both H2O and chemical vapors such as the 3,4,8A medium so its up to you how you compose your filter medium to suits your needs. 

Just one more bit on the discussion of cooling system design. That is if the engineers are so good at designing the system in car bikes and HVAC. etc there would be no need for actual real world testing since they would be perfect right from the get go. So I guess the 11 years I spent at Harleys test facility doing durability testing of the full vehicle was just a waste of time and money on Harleys part since the bikes were perfectly designed from the start.  I guess the numerous design flaws we uncovered in testing in real world conditions that allowed the engineers to revise or completely redo their design was not needed. One has to keep in mind that computers. the programs they use and the people using those programs are humans in which can and do make mistakes or miscalculations that in the big picture and real world are flawed. So as such testing to prove or disprove the theory or design is and always will be required to be performed to validate any and all engineered systems.

There I have said my piece and will now let it be.

Mike     

[shultz]

Mike,

Since we are not breathing the air, why worry about the oil/chemical vapors? other than tiny whiff of smelly air when you bleed the fill hose, what risk does it pose?