Big bore break barrels?????



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Offline Sbak

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2016, 01:02:28 PM »
I have a suped up 135 .25 vortex ram shooting 35+ fpe. It is a point and shoot out to 40 yards. Given this, a .30 with some work put into it would be a point and shoot to 35 yards with a scope height of 2 inches, I see no loopy trajectory here. That being said though, I still wouldn't opt for the 30 over the 25 for practical reasons, but if having a 30 floats your boat I say go for it
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 01:17:57 PM by Sbak »
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Offline SteveP-52

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2016, 03:44:55 PM »
I can see the novelty for some of owning a .30 cal break barrel and there's definitely the "cool" factor so if you have the cash to spend, by all means go for it.
My practical side says the .25 version is a better bet...it will do everything the .30 will, cost less for ammo plus way more choices in .25 to pick from than the, I think 2, you currently have in .30 and longer effective range among others.
Just my usual lame 2 cents :)
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Offline JPowell490

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2016, 11:39:48 PM »
The 135 in .30 caliber is shooting the 44 grain JSB and the 50 grain JSB.  It actually does better with the 50 grain JSB.

Are we shooting 75 yard shots here?  Nah, not without some major hold over, but it is quite the gun.  50 yards should be no trouble. 

Watch this video.  If you don't want to hear the other stuff, pick up the video about the 10:00 minute mark for the hunting.

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2016, 09:58:09 AM »
I love my 95QE in .25, and it is point-n-click to 30 yards.  I use iron-sights now exclusively on it.  And about loopy projectiles: it's no different than shooting a slow-moving bullet from a smoke-pole (black-powder) rifle at range.

I've killed literally thousands of pigeons using slingshot and steel ammo at more than 40 paces.  Yeah, it's like a mortar round dropping in on them.  But a body shot will fold them like paper.  If a loopy projectile is consistent, it is no different than opening up with minnie-ball, slugs, or taking a 45ACP to 120 yards.

People here have made up their minds, or so it seems.  But thus far nobody with a .30 Hatsan has chimed in, and all the people who have reported owning them in reviews are thrilled with the purchase.  It's easy to find videos from the UK of Britons tagging pests at 45+ yards with a sub-12fpe gun.  The trajectory on a 700fps .177 at 45 yards is not flat, so I see a lot of similarity between the two.

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Offline dave2288

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2016, 09:09:35 PM »
I think the idea here is that its theorized that pellets moving 550 fps and slower lose stability at ranges over 20-25 yards and accuracy is effected.  Never tested it personally though.  I would love to see some .30 groupings at 35-50 yards with one of these rifles, ive heard theyre decent enough for medium sized game.  Idk about squirrel headshots at 50 yards, but i could be wrong
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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2016, 10:24:42 PM »
I think the idea here is that its theorized that pellets moving 550 fps and slower lose stability at ranges over 20-25 yards and accuracy is effected.  Never tested it personally though.  I would love to see some .30 groupings at 35-50 yards with one of these rifles, ive heard theyre decent enough for medium sized game.  Idk about squirrel headshots at 50 yards, but i could be wrong
Watch Rick Eutsler's video on YouTube.    50 yards- maybe not.  But I'm more inclined to think it is not only possible but repeatable.  Like I said, a sub-12 FPE springer can drop sparrows all day longer than 40 yards.   Given my .25 95QE's performance at 30 yards, I think a .30 should do some pretty cool things.  And, once a .30 pellet is in motion, it's keeping momentum for sure.

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Offline dave2288

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2016, 10:42:20 PM »
I think the idea here is that its theorized that pellets moving 550 fps and slower lose stability at ranges over 20-25 yards and accuracy is effected.  Never tested it personally though.  I would love to see some .30 groupings at 35-50 yards with one of these rifles, ive heard theyre decent enough for medium sized game.  Idk about squirrel headshots at 50 yards, but i could be wrong
Watch Rick Eutsler's video on YouTube.    50 yards- maybe not.  But I'm more inclined to think it is not only possible but repeatable.  Like I said, a sub-12 FPE springer can drop sparrows all day longer than 40 yards.   Given my .25 95QE's performance at 30 yards, I think a .30 should do some pretty cool things.  And, once a .30 pellet is in motion, it's keeping momentum for sure.

The one thought actually i have on this is...and i dont remember who it was...but i know years ago(probably like a decade ago or so) there were guys that recorded 60ish yard pigeon hunts with beeman r7s.  Wish i could remember the guys that did the video, was really cool.  That rifle i believe is only shooting a bit faster than the 135 .30, and with much more effect on the .177 pellets for air resistance.  All i know is...i wanna see some freakin groupings! Lol
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Webley patriot (british made, .25, david slade tuned)

Crosman g-1 extreme (.177, charlie datuna tuned with grtIII trigger)

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Tech force 89 (.22, tuned by mike melik @ flying dragons)

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Offline JPowell490

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2016, 02:39:51 PM »
I have one on order, so we shall see soon.
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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2016, 10:48:00 AM »
Watch Rick Eutsler's video on YouTube.    50 yards- maybe not.  But I'm more inclined to think it is not only possible but repeatable.  Like I said, a sub-12 FPE springer can drop sparrows all day longer than 40 yards.   Given my .25 95QE's performance at 30 yards, I think a .30 should do some pretty cool things.  And, once a .30 pellet is in motion, it's keeping momentum for sure.

Interesting video, thanks for the link.

One thing to consider is that the target shot by Rick shows the classical situation where the SCOPE is NOT holding zero. Two shots together, then jump to another place and then two shots together.

Interesting.

Thanks!





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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2016, 10:49:59 AM »

The one thought actually i have on this is...and i dont remember who it was...but i know years ago(probably like a decade ago or so) there were guys that recorded 60ish yard pigeon hunts with beeman r7s.  Wish i could remember the guys that did the video, was really cool.  That rifle i believe is only shooting a bit faster than the 135 .30, and with much more effect on the .177 pellets for air resistance.  All i know is...i wanna see some freakin groupings! Lol

If that video was in California, you're probably talking about Robert Hamilton.

One heck of an AirHunter.

Just an idea.





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Offline HectorMedina

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2016, 10:50:37 AM »
I have one on order, so we shall see soon.

PLEASE, if you could slug your barrel and let me know the true groove and land dimensions?

TIA!





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Offline 1953 Panther

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2016, 07:28:37 PM »
Who knows, maybe one day there will be a "potato gun" springer,. Now that would be something to see.
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Offline Jason Phipps

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2016, 09:21:21 PM »
I Cant give you a lot of technical info because im never the one with a chrono or any of that and i send my guns out to be tuned so im not the machinist type either. But i do like to have fun and play with cool stuff. Im happy with my .30 and would be interested in having someone tune it and make it better. Sighted in at 33 yards ( because that was what i had to work with that day ) it seems deadly accurate within that range and when recently was taken out and set up target eggs at 50 ,60 ,70 ,80 .... Only was it 80 that didnt get much consistency. 

Mind you this was being passed back and forth between 3 guys each taking 3 shots each and having never touched the gun before. Neither are shooters by nature either. Everyone was quite pleased. I myself very surprised. Now you could tell there wasnt much FPE left on it by the time it was past 35 to 45 ... but i was really surprised how flat it was still and with not much hold over it seemed .

I agree .25 at this FPE makes more sense in MANY ways . However i decided i see myself buying more .30 guns in the future and only maybe one or 2 more .25 guns in my lifetime ( i think , lol) ... But do plan on owning a few more .30 . Especially if Evanix and a few others follow through with projects im watching.

This has however made me really think several times about ALSO ordering soon this same rifle in .25   

I find the overall platform and rifle regardless of caliber to be a steal for the price.

Offline packard8

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2016, 10:14:41 PM »
I Cant give you a lot of technical info because im never the one with a chrono or any of that and i send my guns out to be tuned so im not the machinist type either. But i do like to have fun and play with cool stuff. Im happy with my .30 and would be interested in having someone tune it and make it better. Sighted in at 33 yards ( because that was what i had to work with that day ) it seems deadly accurate within that range and when recently was taken out and set up target eggs at 50 ,60 ,70 ,80 .... Only was it 80 that didnt get much consistency. 

Mind you this was being passed back and forth between 3 guys each taking 3 shots each and having never touched the gun before. Neither are shooters by nature either. Everyone was quite pleased. I myself very surprised. Now you could tell there wasnt much FPE left on it by the time it was past 35 to 45 ... but i was really surprised how flat it was still and with not much hold over it seemed .

I agree .25 at this FPE makes more sense in MANY ways . However i decided i see myself buying more .30 guns in the future and only maybe one or 2 more .25 guns in my lifetime ( i think , lol) ... But do plan on owning a few more .30 . Especially if Evanix and a few others follow through with projects im watching.

This has however made me really think several times about ALSO ordering soon this same rifle in .25   

I find the overall platform and rifle regardless of caliber to be a steal for the price.

I just received a 135QE/.30 refurb on the Field Supply sale. I am happy with the purchase and the rifle is very accurate  at close range, shooting around 30 FPE with the Vortex 44.75gr pellets. I also have an older 135/.25 springer that shoots a bit stronger @ 33 FPE. I think overall the .25 is probably a better all 'round caliber (if you are shooting past 30 yds) but I'm glad to have both. The stock is nicer on the .30/QE and the shrouded barrel is quieter.
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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2016, 07:01:04 PM »
I just received a 135QE/.30 refurb on the Field Supply sale. I am happy with the purchase and the rifle is very accurate  at close range, shooting around 30 FPE with the Vortex 44.75gr pellets. I also have an older 135/.25 springer that shoots a bit stronger @ 33 FPE. I think overall the .25 is probably a better all 'round caliber (if you are shooting past 30 yds) but I'm glad to have both. The stock is nicer on the .30/QE and the shrouded barrel is quieter.
Good to hear!

Even if the trajectory is loopy, as long as it is consistent you'll be able to hit whatever you want wherever you want.  I've been reaching out more with my 95QE in .25- Polymags are all I have in .25, so my next batch of pellets with be something with dome front end to play longer distances :)
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Offline A.K.A. Tommy Boy

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2016, 07:21:19 PM »
I just received a 135QE/.30 refurb on the Field Supply sale. I am happy with the purchase and the rifle is very accurate  at close range, shooting around 30 FPE with the Vortex 44.75gr pellets. I also have an older 135/.25 springer that shoots a bit stronger @ 33 FPE. I think overall the .25 is probably a better all 'round caliber (if you are shooting past 30 yds) but I'm glad to have both. The stock is nicer on the .30/QE and the shrouded barrel is quieter.
Good to hear!

Even if the trajectory is loopy, as long as it is consistent you'll be able to hit whatever you want wherever you want.  "I've been reaching out more with my 95QE in .25- Polymags are all I have in .25, so my next batch of pellets with be something with dome front end to play longer distances " :)
Peter:   Domed H&N 19.91gr. Field Target Trophies have been shooting good in my 25cal. Hatsan Rifles.   My Best Regards to You   -   Tom
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Offline packard8

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2016, 07:40:11 PM »
Peter:   Domed H&N 19.91gr. Field Target Trophies have been shooting good in my 25cal. Hatsan Rifles[/u].[/color]   My Best Regards to You   -   Tom

The Hatsan Vortex Supreme .25 19.91 pellets are the same, made by H&N for Hatsan. Sometimes Field Supply has them on sale for less then the H&N FTT's.
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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2016, 07:48:16 PM »
Peter:   Domed H&N 19.91gr. Field Target Trophies have been shooting good in my 25cal. Hatsan Rifles[/u].[/color]   My Best Regards to You   -   Tom

The Hatsan Vortex Supreme .25 19.91 pellets are the same, made by H&N for Hatsan. Sometimes Field Supply has them on sale for less then the H&N FTT's.
Peter:That is TRUE and John is RIGHT.  I've got several tins of them also and they work just as good as the H&N's.      My Best Regards to All   -   Tom
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My Primary Hunting Guns
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22cal Benjamin Trail NP XL 1100 Magnum W/CDT GRT III Trigger (*MY MOST POWERFUL RIFLE & BEST "RESTED-SHOT" HUNTER*)
25cal Hatsan 85 Sniper Vortex W/Camo Stock & Extra 117cal Sniper Barrel (Good Winter & Windy Day Gun)
117cal Hatsan Striker Vortex W/Edge Stock (*EXCELLENT SNAP SHOOTER & GOOD WINTER GUN*)
22cal Crosman Summit Ranger NP2 (***MY BEST ALL-ROUND HUNTER & WINTER GUN***)
25cal Hatsan Edge Vortex.  (Good Snap-Shooter on Winter or Windy Days)
117cal Crosman Vantage NP1 W/Titan Stock (My Old Trusty Standby Rifle)
117cal Crosman 2100 (My Lightest Weight Hunter)
Occasional Hunters
117cal Custom Older X-3 Stoeger W/B-3 Spring (NicelyRefinished&Rebuilt By SteveP-52)
117cal Chinese B-3 (My Mean Mongrel Junkyard Dog)
117cal 2 Crosman 1377 Pistols (Mouse Zappers)
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117cal Red Ridder BB Gun (Pop Can Hunter)

Offline Rattus58

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2016, 10:47:22 PM »
The down-range power is pretty awesome.  I shoot a .25 Hatsan 95QE and it destroys squirrels; it isn't a hyper-velocity springer but Gets The Job Done..  Perhaps the most telling YouTube review I've seen of the .30 is Rick Eutsler's.... but I haven't read anything bad by people that own one here on the GTA.

I also look at things this way: I've killed a lot of pest birds using sling-shots with 1/4" and 5/16" steel ball ammo.  They were moving a lot slower than the .30 caliber pellets coming from the big-bore Hatsan, and ammo weight is comparable.

Think of this: a springer carrying 20+ FPE at 50 yards, and even moving at slower speeds, it doesn't decelerate as fast because of all that mass.  Given how my .25 bucks the wind, the .30 is sure to do even better. 

I just took a peek at the reviews on PA- lots of happy owners- let that be your guide.   "A pellet in motion tends to stay in motion"  LOL





well said , it seems like everyone thinks a slow projectile is useless, but a slow 30 cal round will do some damage, all the energy is imparted  on target

I've a lot of perspective on accuracy and slow with heavy bullets. Another passion of mine is muzzleloaders... one of which is a volunteer, a replica of an 1860's thereabouts "military" rifle that it and the gun it replicated, the Whitworth, designed by Joseph Whitworth... who also figured out how to categorize screws so that there was some conformity in construction.. anyway... his guns shot 500 plus grain .451 caliber bullets that are accurate today out to 1,000 yards.. and very similar to many long range cartridge rifles of those hefty bullets that shoot at such ranges routine. Trajectory can of these projectiles can be measured in the 10's of yards on the way to target, but they strike in the black more often than not with a good shoulder behind the trigger... long, heavy, and slow.

Airguns.... I shoot the heaviest bullets I can find, not so much for wind, but for penetration and carry... something I just got used to with with my muzzleloaders. Accuracy lies with the shooter, and if you can get a heavy bullet to accurately leave your bore, IN MY OPINION, it will be more accurate downrange than a lighter bullet.

Now that being said, I just bought a mold for my Hatsan .30 breakaction that drops a 68 grain pellet/bullet actually and I'm hoping this helps helps offset the .11 per pellet one has to fork over for the .30 or 9mm. I'm curious what the drop in velocity would be from a 44.75 grain pellet to one of 68 grains.

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Offline Rob M

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Re: Big bore break barrels?????
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2016, 12:17:14 AM »
Wow.. 68 grain will be quite the thumper !
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