How many gas ram/nitro piston owners use the artillery hold?

[bobster]

This hold works horrible on my nitro venom for me.  I've tried several variations.  Holding the rifle more firmly -leaving looseness only between shoulder and stock- is giving much better results.  What works best for you with a gas ram?  

[RWS-4-Me]

For me on my XL 1100, resting the gun on some coats or my palm, and pressing the butt against my shoulder firmly, but not tight, gives me the best results.

Conor

[ezman604]

I shoot an XL1100, XL1500 and NP converted Super Streak. I have gotten the best results by resting my left arm on a stationary (and padded) object like my deck railing. I use a loose and comfortable hold. I rest the foregrip of the gun in my left palm and press the butt into my shoulder. I grip loosely with my right hand and try to keep everything loose, comfortable and relaxed. These are powerhouse guns that I call "movers & shakers". A relaxed form seems to work best for me. You can't or shouldn't try to muscle or control these guns. Just stay relaxed and let 'er fly.
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
 

[RatRacer]

Interested to hear the responses on this also, as I have a venom inbound. Hopefully its more a realistic hold than what I have to use on my big cat. I feel if I mount a remote control on it, it would purr.

[oldpink]

I have to use the artillery hold with my gas ram converted .22 Gamo CFX unless I like missing.

[Jay]

My XL like's to be held in what I'd say is a "medium" grip, forearm held(at beginning of checkering) with more pressure than used on pistol grip, guess you could say guideing it on target with leading hand, light cheek pressure an stock pulled into shoulder lightly.

[Onebaddj]

On my gas ram and springers I will let the front end just sit in my hand if hunting or sit on my rest when shooting off a rest. I dont hold the front at all. If off a rest I dont even touch the front of the gun, I will set my left hand next to the rifle on the front rest. I will shoulder the gun and set my head on the stock The stock of the rifle is in my shoulder just tight enough to get it to stay there, I dont pull it in or hold it tight. My trigger hand barely touches the gun adding as little pressure as possible. Then The trigger finger nice and smoothly pulls the trigger till it breaks.

[Nomadic Pirate]

Not me, I hold it firmly

[Mark 611]

is this the Venom Dusk model?

[RatRacer]

is this the Venom Dusk model?

No, it's the Nitro Venom from Sportsmans Guide (exclusive). Kind of like a NPSS with a Phantom stock.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/venom-nitro-piston-177-cal-air-rifle-with-4x32-mm-scope.aspx?a=704868

[Mark 611]

well from what I saw on the SG site you need to use an open hand AT hold for best accuracy, I'm glad you brought this post to light because I was looking at Crosmans new model of this rifle and saw these reviews and if it has to be shot like this for best accuracy I don't want one!

[bobster]

I think in the venom dusk crosman video they are saying that they made the bottom of the forearm flat so it can more easily be used with the artillery hold (at least the video I saw).  
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I don't think they said you have to hold it that way.  The Venom nitro doesn't have that flat forearm area (it uses the phantom stock as mentioned above).

My experience so far with the artillery hold on my particular gun (venom nitro, not dusk) where you "let the gun move however it wants to", to use Tom Gaylord's words, it shoots all over the place.  We're talking like 3" groups at 25 yards!  But when you shoot it like any other gun (with the exception of keeping some looseness in the back behind the stock and not pressing cheek against stock) it has nice tight groups.  I'm still experimenting and I'm not at all saying which way to hold your gun, just saying that the artillery hold (as shown in Tom Gaylord's pyramid air video)
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has horrible results for me.  Someone else may have a totally different experience with the artillery hold or even an opposite experience.  Just trying to learn.

I think the best thing to do would be to try various holds for these guns and compare the target shooting results.  I would guess someone on here may have already done that?

[Mark 611]

well my experience with these type of rifles is, because I had an NPSS as well and these are all basically the same gun I experienced exactly what you are talking about and if they are that hold sensitive I don't want another one! and by the way what cal is this gun you have? it was my experience that the .177cal gun in this forum was evry hold sensitive and if this is the case thats a no=no for me! cause it shot like a shot gun!

[bobster]

From my novice perspective I would say it is VERY hold sensitive.  I was under the impression that all spring guns are?

Definitely not shooting like a shotgun.  Did a lot of target shooting at 15 yards and groups were very tight with shots going through the same hole in some cases.  Also 9 squirrel body count in the first week since getting gun.  Only 1 was 2 shot, rest were 1 shot.  But when I've been doing the artillery hold, shotgun seems like an apt description.  From my impression it's great if it can recoil backwards but you don't want to allow it any other kind of movement.  This is of course in contrast to the artillery hold philosophy and like I say I'm still learning this gun and experimenting.

[huklbery]

From my novice perspective I would say it is VERY hold sensitive.  I was under the impression that all spring guns are?

As another novice I found the lower power Titan to be less hold sensitive than my MM lube tuned B26 or stock Gamo 440.  I think as you go up in power of gas spring it gets more sensitive just as conventional spring guns do.  I use a light pull into the shoulder and an open palm on the fore stock. 

I will say this, I was getting better results with the B26 after shooting the more manageable Titan,  as a first spring gun I would go gas spring for sure.  To me the gas spring depletes the rebound and is much easier. 

[gene_sc]

Actually I do not use the artillary hold on any of my gas ram air guns. Keep gun free floating in hand on bag or towel. My groups are fine shooting with this style. As a matter of fact I shoot all my springers and PCP's this way. Maybe I am wierd...

[airiscool]

With my Trail XL it does best with a firm hold just as you'd use with a magnum rifle or shotgun.  With an Artillery hold, it's "fire for affect" only.

With my gas ram converted Whisper, just the oposite. I have to use a loose artillery hold, or I get 'loose' groups.

Paul

[roadchoad]

My NP Titan likes to be held tight.

[bobster]

So what I am seeing by the responses is that it is model-specific as to whether the artillery hold is best or not. This is good news because everything I saw on the internet and even from some local gun shops said you "HAVE" to use the artillery hold.  Clearly that is not the case.  I also wonder if it may be individual gun specific, but that's a topic for another day.  

Perhaps we need either some user testing or a poll about what hold people like with what gun.  For example if, on a specific model, 100% of the users find that artillery hold is the only way to be accurate, that would help others who are new to that gun know how to hold it.  I don't know if there are enough users who would respond to such a poll to make it meaningful though.  Just throwing out ideas...

[huklbery]

I would suggest just like conventional springers, the more power the more likely hold sensitive.  The nature of the shot cycle on the moderate Titans is an abrupt forward and very little in rebound compared to my other two springers.