Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos...now put through the paces!



Author Topic: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos...now put through the paces!  (Read 15937 times))

Offline nervoustrigger

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 6060
  • The Grin Reaper
    • My youtube channel
  • Real Name: Jason
I've been wanting to build a lightweight carbine for my boys to shoot, and Pyramyd's recent 20% sale gave me the incentive to order up the parts.  So into the cart went a Crosman 2240, steel breech kit, and shoulder stock.  From Amazon came a 13ci Ninja bottle and I already had a QB tank block.
 
I stayed up late Tuesday night working in the shop doing the cutting and drilling.  While I was fitting the tank block, this expert hunter stopped in and kept me company for a couple of hours.
 

 
For the life of me I don't know why the photo turned out so miserable, but at least I now know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll pop.
 
Converting a 2240 to bottle fed is fairly straightforward but there were a few things that needed to be sorted out.  Firstly, the 2240's valve is designed to seal to the face of a CO2 cartridge so I needed to devise a way to seal it to the air tube.  Turns out that was easy enough with some creative use of O-rings.  I simply removed the valve's O-ring and replaced it with two -013 O-rings followed by a -112 on top of them.  The following picture is not of a 2240 valve but it illustrates the concept.



Other valve mods included chopping off the piercing pin and removing the nose so air can flow into the valve better.
 
Secondly, pressurizing the whole tube puts substantially more force on the valve so I secured it to the tube with 3 high-strength M4 screws.

 
Thirdly, the front grip frame screw goes into the air tube so I applied a generous amount of threadlocker, and then reached into the tube with a skewer to apply a bit of epoxy over the top of it.  Sorry, no photos.
 
With these things done, the gun is holding air perfectly.  It's a decidedly awkward looking carbine with the stubby barrel but that will be addressed shortly when I convert it to .177 with a longer barrel.
 

 
Right now it is shooting 14.3gr CPHP at 515fps for 8.4fpe on a standard regulator output of 850psi.  That seems decent for a barrel shorter than most drinking straws.  I don't know what it did stock on CO2 because...well, I took it out of the box and tore it apart and took a hacksaw to it ;D
 
Having done a little cleanup work on the barrel, it's already showing the potential to be a 25 yard squirrel slayer and it just feels so lightweight compared to a wood-stocked rifle.  It is spring squirrel season here and tomorrow I plan to return to the pecan orchard.  I usually conceal myself in a hedgerow and I've been having some squirrels sneak up on me from behind and overhead.  Maneuvering my full-sized rifle in there for a shot is not practical so tomorrow I'll have the 2240 in hand for close quarters work.
 
If it gets blooded tomorrow, I'll report back in the hunting gate.  And I will update this thread with build details as it goes.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 01:43:13 AM by nervoustrigger »
  • MS

Offline PBguns

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 785
  • yes
  • Real Name: Mike
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2016, 01:24:01 PM »
An owl landed in your shop? Now that is cool!
That a lizard hanging from its beak?



Nice build! Looking forward to seeing the build progress.
What is the shot count? Have a string you can post?

I was going to go with a bottle on my 2240 (ended up using a hipac I had already).
I went .177 also, but mine has a 10.1 LW barrel.
I ended up adding one extension to my hipac.....then a second extension (roughly 90cc total).
Got it all sealed up and holding air (sometimes not an easy task with a hipac).
I have a couple 2240s & one 1740 still in the package. I picked them up with the intention of possible builds later (think I still want to build a bottled 1740 like yours).

« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 03:00:37 PM by PBguns »
  • Orange County California

Offline nervoustrigger

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 6060
  • The Grin Reaper
    • My youtube channel
  • Real Name: Jason
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2016, 03:06:47 PM »
Thanks, yeah the owl was a pretty cool experience.  Totally silent as he glided through the door.  He fluttered about a little when he first came in but he ended up settling fairly close to me.  He didn't seem distressed at all; several times I walked to within 3 feet of him.  He even brought a lizard to snack on :)
 
I haven't checked shot count yet but I can tell from just the way it sounds that it's bad.  Far too much dwell for such a short barrel and there is some obvious hammer bounce.  I ordered a spare hammer spring so this weekend I'm going to try either clipping coils or lightening the hammer or both and see if I can get it working more efficiently with the short barrel for now, even though it will need to be retuned for the longer barrel.
 
My plan is to try shortening a 24" .177 Disco barrel to 18" and see how well it groups.  I was pleasantly surprised with the one I used to convert a 2289 pumper to a 1389.  If it doesn't perform, I have a LW that I think I can get machined and install.  I have to check the OD because it may need a riser.
 

Offline haystack222

  • Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • yes
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2016, 11:48:01 PM »
sharpshooter what is the forearm on your 2240?
  • taylor ridge il.

Offline nervoustrigger

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 6060
  • The Grin Reaper
    • My youtube channel
  • Real Name: Jason
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2016, 09:59:18 AM »
Last night I got to play with the hammer spring.  The stock spring measures 0.30" OD x 2.0" L and is made from 0.032" wire.  I had to cut it down 20% to 1.60" long before the velocity began to fall.  It went from 515fps down to 465fps.  I added a 0.06" spacer in the end cap to bring it back up to 510fps, basically where I started.  It is noticeably quieter now but there is still some audible bounce.  This will hold me over until the longer .177 barrel goes on. 

Offline thelast88

  • Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 90
  • yes
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2016, 12:24:41 PM »
You may want to try to make SSG for it, here is "how to" make easy external SSG for 2240.

http://www.marauderairrifle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=12211

PS: There's a post in the SSG thread but its just to big to search...
  • Bosnia and Hercegovina

Offline nervoustrigger

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 6060
  • The Grin Reaper
    • My youtube channel
  • Real Name: Jason
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2016, 01:41:31 PM »
PS: There's a post in the SSG thread but its just to big to search...
[/quote]
This will hold me over until the longer .177 barrel goes on. 
...
here is "how to" make easy external SSG for 2240.

On second thought, maybe that won't hold me until the longer barrel goes on.  ;D

Thanks, that's way too easy to not give it a try.

Offline nervoustrigger

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 6060
  • The Grin Reaper
    • My youtube channel
  • Real Name: Jason
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2016, 01:57:28 AM »
Okay, I decided I wanted to ensure the spring guide had no threads to snag the coils of the spring so I took a piece of 3/16" cold rolled steel rod and tapped both ends to #10-32.  I then turned down a standard hex nut to an OD of 0.30" to capture the spring.  The parts laid out:



Dry fitted together:



And lastly, on the gun:



I played around just a bit with the gap adjustment until the velocity came down from 510fps to 460fps.  It was noticeably quieter and the braaaap sound was either much improved or gone altogether.   But I decided I wanted to keep it tuned to around 500fps so I reduced the gap until it did.  The resulting gap is 0.030".   It's still pretty loud which is to be expected for keeping it near its max velocity, but the bounce is improved so that will save air.

Thanks again for the link!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 01:44:47 AM by nervoustrigger »
  • MS

Offline PBguns

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 785
  • yes
  • Real Name: Mike
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2016, 06:47:35 AM »
sharpshooter what is the forearm on your 2240?

Its from crosmods. Think its for the disco.
  • Orange County California

Offline PBguns

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 785
  • yes
  • Real Name: Mike
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2016, 06:51:16 AM »
Okay, I decided I wanted to ensure the spring guide had no threads to snag the coils of the spring so I took a piece of 3/16" cold rolled steel rod and tapped both ends to #10-32.  I then turned down a standard hex nut to an OD of 0.30" to capture the spring.  The parts laid out:



Dry fitted together:



And lastly, on the gun:



I played around just a bit with the gap adjustment until the velocity came down from 510fps to 460fps.  It was noticeably quieter and the braaaap sound was either much improved or gone altogether.   But I decided I wanted to keep it tuned to around 500fps so I reduced the gap until it did.  The resulting gap is 0.030".   It's still pretty loud which is to be expected for keeping it near its max velocity, but the bounce is improved so that will save air.

Thanks again for the link!


Nice execution of a 22xx SSG! I have a .25 SSG (yet to do another). I have read a couple threads with 22xx ssg and the shot count was pretty amazing.
  • Orange County California

Offline thelast88

  • Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 90
  • yes
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2016, 10:40:58 AM »
Thanks again for the link!

No problem, I made that 2240 SSG earlier as it's really easy to do. There's no need for two o-rings but the spring is light so this shouldn't be a problem.

This is my 2240 now with the red dot sight (self made mounts for weaver rail):
Set at 4.5-4.6 fpe and about 100+ shots...

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 04:45:10 PM by thelast88 »
  • Bosnia and Hercegovina

Offline nervoustrigger

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 6060
  • The Grin Reaper
    • My youtube channel
  • Real Name: Jason
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2016, 01:43:06 AM »
Well, the 2240 got a pretty thorough workout today.  Last night after we got back from a family gathering, I was talking to my boys about getting outside the next day to shoot it, and we decided it would be fun to put together a spoon spinner so we went and picked up some supplies.  This morning we went out to the shop and put it together:



We set it up at 25 yards along with the knockdown squirrel target:



And here is the big brother taking a turn:



And next:



And next:



Here's a quick clip of the spinner getting smacked:
Small | Large


The good news is they were all doing a great job hitting them at 25 yards.  The soup spoons were pretty much a sure thing.  The teaspoons were more of a challenge.

And the SSG really did the trick.  We shot all we wanted on a partial fill.  The day started at 2500psi and ended at 1600psi.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 02:01:35 AM by nervoustrigger »
  • MS

Online Tater

  • GTA Moderator
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
  • Insert creative saying here
  • Real Name: Jerry
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos...now put through the paces!
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2016, 03:03:26 AM »
Very nice job setting that up Jason. Looks like a fun day.
  • NW suburbs of Chicago
If you haven't marked your turf yet (GTA member map), please do. No registration, just enter zip code and board name.
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=962067

Hammerli Pneuma Elite 10 .177, DonnyFL Sumo ldc
.22 Disco/Maximus mix, Rocker1 ldc
Gamo Hornet .177
1377, steel breech, TKO, 12" barrel, R. Arms Innovations AR stock
P17 - (my wife's)
2240 - Won it at Matt's (Shaky Sarge) fun shoot

Offline nervoustrigger

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 6060
  • The Grin Reaper
    • My youtube channel
  • Real Name: Jason
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos...now put through the paces!
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2016, 12:43:02 PM »
Thanks, Jerry!  The boys had a good time with it.  And when I got home from work yesterday evening, they wanted to head out and shoot.  I'll call that a success :)

I'm looking forward to switching it over to .177 and putting a LDC on it to make it more backyard friendly.  Also, the 4x Horton crossbow scope it's wearing now has a reticle like a pair of railroad cross ties so last night I ordered a 3-9x32 Bugbuster for it that I think will suit it better.

Offline nervoustrigger

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 6060
  • The Grin Reaper
    • My youtube channel
  • Real Name: Jason
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos...now converted to .177
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2016, 01:51:21 AM »
The .177 barrel came in yesterday so I promptly headed out to the shop and cleaned up the crown, leade, and barrel port.  Then I headed inside and broke out the cleaning rod and J-B Bore Paste and Bore Brite and gave the bore a good scrubbing.  Here it is after getting stitched up on the operating table:



I also ordered a long-nose bolt probe which I modified slightly.  The nose is somewhat fat, restricting airflow through the barrel port, so I turned down the diameter and shaped the taper a bit.  It was also an opportunity to address a mildly irritating tendency for the bolt probe to slide forward when trying to load a pellet.  I embedded a small magnet into the back to make it stick to the cocking pin and hold it out of the way.



It works well enough but if I were to do it again, I would instead use a magnet roughly the same diameter as the bolt.

On to the chronograph.  With the SSG bypassed, it was tossing the 10.5gr CPUMs at 755fps for 13.3fpe.  I then adjusted the SSG somewhat arbitrarily to get 700fps (11.4fpe).  The much lighter RWS Basic wadcutters (7.0gr) were leaving the muzzle at about 830fps (10.7fpe) at this state of tune.

Then I spent a little time getting the scope set up at 25 yards.  The cheap RWS wadcutters were banging the small spoons on the spinner target 100% of the time, and the first 3 types of pellets I tried had a pretty similar POI so that looks encouraging.  With 5 boys in the household, this gun will get used a lot so a barrel that isn't pellet fussy is very much a welcome thing.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 02:05:05 AM by nervoustrigger »
  • MS

Online Tater

  • GTA Moderator
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 10157
  • Insert creative saying here
  • Real Name: Jerry
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos...now put through the paces!
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2016, 03:11:02 AM »
"opportunity to address a mildly irritating tendency for the bolt probe to slide forward when trying to load a pellet."

Man do I hate that.  ^^^
Nice numbers with it Jason. How many shots are you getting with a fill?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 03:13:20 AM by Tater »
  • NW suburbs of Chicago
If you haven't marked your turf yet (GTA member map), please do. No registration, just enter zip code and board name.
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=962067

Hammerli Pneuma Elite 10 .177, DonnyFL Sumo ldc
.22 Disco/Maximus mix, Rocker1 ldc
Gamo Hornet .177
1377, steel breech, TKO, 12" barrel, R. Arms Innovations AR stock
P17 - (my wife's)
2240 - Won it at Matt's (Shaky Sarge) fun shoot

Offline thelast88

  • Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 90
  • yes
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos...now put through the paces!
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2016, 04:33:23 AM »
Nice setup, what is with the sound with a longer barrel? On my short factory barreled 2240 I have to put moderator on...
  • Bosnia and Hercegovina

Offline nervoustrigger

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 6060
  • The Grin Reaper
    • My youtube channel
  • Real Name: Jason
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos...now put through the paces!
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2016, 11:38:12 AM »
Hi Jerry, I did some plinking yesterday evening after work and my guess is I pulled the trigger about 50 times and used about 500psi so that would put the shot count somewhere in the vicinity of 200.  I could be way off though, I wasn't paying close attention.  I plan to look at it this weekend and report back.  BTW, 200 shots wouldn't be particularly good efficiency.  I will say this, though...several times after shooting a while I've glanced at the gauge and was pleased at how slowly the needle is moving. :)
 
thelast88, yes the report is much improved with the longer barrel.  Subjectively I would say it cut the report in half.  I'm going to try fashioning an LDC for it this weeekend to make it even more backyard friendly.

Offline nervoustrigger

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 6060
  • The Grin Reaper
    • My youtube channel
  • Real Name: Jason
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos...now put through the paces!
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2016, 12:09:43 PM »
In terms of how it's shooting, late last night I went out and shot 5 groups with 5 different pellets at 25 yards and I am stoked with the results.  All 5 pellets had a similar POI, and the two best groups measured 0.32" and 0.36".  With a 4x non-AO scope, that really exceeded my wildest expectations.  I'll put up a scan of the targets this evening.

I have to think it can do slightly better when the 3-9x scope arrives and by trying different pellets.  But if not, I can live with it.

Offline nervoustrigger

  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • ******
  • Posts: 6060
  • The Grin Reaper
    • My youtube channel
  • Real Name: Jason
Re: Lightweight bottled 2240 for the kiddos...now put through the paces!
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2016, 08:47:18 PM »
Okay I just ran 100 shots through it and it used 900psi so it should get about 240 shots on a fill.  That will do nicely.  Efficiency comes out to 1.41fpe/ci.

And here's a pic of the first 5 groups at 25 yards:


« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 02:06:14 AM by nervoustrigger »
  • MS

How do you word it... "Air Guns" or "AirGuns"?