Budget, quiet, super accurate basement and back yard pcp rifle recommendations.

[Ribbonstone]

Word about AA 200T’s.  Are some that make adjusting very difficult, usually for either the countries that have strict (low) power limits but they find their way into the US market too.   The ones sold in the US market (mostly Pyramid or TopGun) are adjustable.  Pyramid will even tell you how to speed them up.

So if considering a used AA 200T, ask about any “anti-tamper” device (non-slotted striker spring screw/covered transfer port screw location).

Have not tried the Edge, has the speed and accuracy, but wonder (from using a way-down tuned Talons SS) about the scope height.  Just seems difficult to guess hold over on tiny targets (M&M sized) that crop up at 7 or 10 yards when you’re sighted in for 20 yards.

If you like really small and light weight (which does make it harder to really shoot well), the Crosman 1720 and 1701 make nice little carbines. Would have to swap the 1720’s transfer port with a 1701 port to easily get it down to those mid 500’s speeds,,,, or live with the really small air volume of a 1701 (and a stock).

Before they made 1720’s, I made up a little carbine on a 1700 (yeah…before the 1701 there was a 1700).

 Comparison in size.  That’s not a 1720, it’s a .22 P-rod with a shroud extension…but that P-Rod would be the same length as a 1720.  Did @@@ a shroud to the 1700, and a front sight.



And of course, could use a 1701 as a pistol as well.



Not sure how many 4% shots it would get, but there are 40 shots inside of 3% variation (from a really-really small air volume that is ridiculously easy to refill).



Think the 1720 would be easier.  If you just changed the transfer port for one for a 1701, would likely get something in the same low speed range, but with more air volume, would get more shots.

[wasatch]

Check out the T200 on targettalk.org:
http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=52169&sid=cad047d8a2ecf085c9b7a14a3720b62d
It's the adjustable stock Champ Choice version. Asking price is $500 but seller also said make offer... so get it for less than retail.  Then maybe take the savings and buy a Lane Regulator.  Installing it would be easy with the removable cylinder.  I shoot 10m pistol and the removable cylinder isn't a big deal when getting over 100 shots per fill.

The transfer port screw cover is not anti-tamper, its just a cover as on the AA MPR.

With the shorter air cylinder, installing an LDC on the T200 would be much easier than the Challenger.

Learning to shoot diopter sights is fun, interesting and more of a challenge than easy peasy scopes at 10m.  Then you'll want to get better diopter sights with adjustable iris & colored filters and adjustable front iris and....    I have some low/mid grade adjustable diopter sights on my Challenger and they are examples of really fine German craftsmanship.

Or heck, the Hammerli 850 CO2 rifle is really accurate, cheap(er) and gets lots of shots w/ 88g cartridges.  Some electrical tape wrapped around the holes in the accessory moderator makes it very quiet.

I also have a 1720T and it is quite accurate & easy to quiet.  But the trigger out of the box needs some work... or replacement?

[chiro972b]

Someone is selling an air arms s500 on the yellow for $750. I have one and at one point it was set up for 14 ftlb and I got over 100 consistent shots with it. That's a lot of shots so you aren't pumping all the time. Deadly accurate and quiet. Build quality that far exceeds most of what is being suggested to you.

Whatever you get, if you're hand pumping, you'll want to tear down your gun regularly to dry out the moisture that always gets in with hand pumps.

[Ribbonstone]

OK...back into AA 200T lore.

Are two types of air tubes. One with a fill fitting at the end of the tube (but no gauge) and one with a gauge at the end of the tube (but you have to unscrew the tube to fill from the back end).

Turns out, even though I didn't think I would, I LIKE removing the air cylinder and filling it detached from the rifle.  Like it enough that I fill the other rifle (with a fill fitting )form the back end too.  Just makes more sense to me for a pump filler to lay the tube down to fill than to lay the whole rifle down to fill.

I mention the above as if you do have to remove the air tube to fill, will need a skinny LDC, or one with a flat bottom, in order for the tube to pass.  The one in the previous picture is about as fat as you can get and still pass the tube under it.

The tube do interchange.  There are aftermarket mods to allow both a front fill on the rifle (with a probe) and a gauge.


MORE likely the target stocked version (the one with the adjustable butt and cheek) to be limited in power; that's OK for your intended use, I just mention it for others reading this.  It isn't all about the striker spring cap being slotted and the transfer port screw, are some low powered versions where the internal pathway that the transfer port screw works on is much smaller in size...so the transfer port screw (if it has one, as some sold in various countries doesn't have the screw at all) in one of those narrow transfer port rifles will not be able to vary in power much at all.

If you know you'll never want to easily ramp it up to more power, then the $500 (or best offer) used version shown might be a good deal. Sell the sights (they are the same sights used on several AA rifles, the Crosman Challenger, and likely a few others)...or put them aside, as using match sights can be very entertaining (Keep 3 rifles with match sights only).

[moorepower]

Ok, I will add one more to the mix. I just got back inside and I found that a 2240 with a recrowned 1377 barrel shot 5 10.3 JSB's into 1/2-3/4" at 22yds with a 2.5x NC star pistol scope. With th TKO, you could shoot this in your house all day.

[Taso1000]

Hi,

Does anyone know the seller fourts on Targettalk that Mark and Fred found?  He only has 6 posts.  I'm a little bit of a worry wart so I'd rather pay the $525 and have the vendor support and a factory warranty, just in case.  I need peace of mind.

So is the consensus that the Champion's Choice T200 version has more of what I'm looking for versus the Pyramid Air version?

The T200 are the leaders right now.  2nd place I would put the Disco's R Us Disco FT.  Third I would put the Challenger and 1720T tied.

I'm 99% sure the rifle will stay at 550 fps.  I want this one un altered.  I have other rifles that shoot hot much better anyway. 

I will need to make sure I have the right connectors to fill from a pump.  I'm sure CC or PA can guide me there unless you have some recommendations?

I have plenty of cheap scopes to start with.  Most likely a 4x AO Rex scope I bought from Mike M.  So far they have suited my needs real well.  And if one breaks I won't cry lol.  It most likely will be covered under warranty unless I use it as a hammer lol.

In the next month, if the rifle is not already silent, I'll pick up a TKO or an ldc from David (Rocker1). 

Another tube may be nice and I'll have a backup if one fails.  Can't shoot the rifle with out a tube.  How many more shots will the longer tube give?

Will this rifle at 550 fps benefit from a regulator since it already shoots pretty impressively and at 10m?  A super small es is not necessary at 10m correct?  Obviously it can't hurt.

There was something else I wanted to ask but I can't remember right now.

Thank you All,

Taso



 

[wll2506]

I was in the same state of mind a while back so I got a AR2079B, fixed her up and now she just shoots tiny little groups in the 725fps ish fps range with 7.9gr CPHPs - the trigger is great and she was inexpensive for what she does.

Since this picture was taken she now has a 17cu bottle not the 14cu that was on the gun. Been so long I don't remember what my out going was, either 800 or 1100 ? The scope is now a 8-32 Mueller target dot. Flies that land on my target don't have a chance ;- )

http://s20.postimg.org/u8lpliebh/Dragon_Fly_smx.jpg

wll2506

[nervoustrigger]

Will this rifle at 550 fps benefit from a regulator since it already shoots pretty impressively and at 10m?  A super small es is not necessary at 10m correct? 

At 10 yards, a 4% ES (22fps) will have a vertical spread of about 0.05".  In other words, a little more than 1/4 of the width of a pellet.

Every doubling of ES will double the vertical spread.   So an 8% ES (44fps) would have a vertical spread of 0.10", and a 16% ES (88fps) would have a spread of 0.20".

The vertical stringing tool in Chairgun makes it easy for you to look at other scenarios if you want.  Do note that it asks for a +fps variation so if you want to explore an ES of, say, 20fps you would instead enter 10 in the box because +10 is a 20fps spread.  (For the sticklers, that's not quite 100% congruous with the popular way of relating ES to the max velocity, but close enough for these purposes).

[Ribbonstone]

Just going to mention. Can usually find a discount code for Pyrmanid, often a 10% code….and if you’re going to put an LDC on it, aren’t going to use the sights.  Hunt up a 5% or 10% discount code and sell the sights…you’ll be down to $450-$420.

Own a Challenger, but I really dislike the bolt system (can search here…are quite a few folks less than thrilled about the bolt system).  Mounting an LDC on one is not easy.  Barrel actually ends well before the end of the air tube, it’s that square front sight base that extends it to the length of the air tube.   There is one on mine, and I can tell you first hand that getting a round LDC to mount on a square sight base takes a bit of home-work (don’t think anyone makes one commercially).

Nearly $500, but the DiscoRUs FT version is kind of a cross between a Challenger and a Discovery, and likely worth the asking price (and praise be, it doesn’t have that Challenger bolt sytem). Still have an LDC problem, but you get the LW barrel and M-Rod type trigger.  BUT I don’t know if they’d be willing to make one that shoots as slow as you’re thinking (pretty sure using a Challenger transfer port would slow it down to Challenger speeds). Can always call ‘em and ask.

[RayK]

Of all my guns, the one I would grab for the activity you describe is my 177 caliber BAM B50 with Rocker1 LDC.  It is so accurate and by far the quietest airgun I have.  And it tends to hold zero over the months better than my other airguns too.

I did a full tune (which isn't that difficult), but the most important thing is to polish/taper the inleade (where the pellet slides into the bore when you close the bolt).  Both my BAMs needed this.  Both crowns were fine on mine without any work.

I say don't give up on your BAMs.  You may already own the gun you are seeking.

Ray

[Taso1000]

Thanks Ray. 

My 5 fpe B51 is just so close to being done.  It's like you go from point A to B but you can only go half the remaining distance every step.  You can get real close but you never actually get to B.  That's how it feels.  Sometimes things are going great and then you get a setback. 

I tried to do a brass screw crown job on that B51.  There's an about 1/8th inch recessed step from the factory and the screws don't reach the rifling.  So I lookup crown cutters.  They're like $140 all said and done with the brass pilots.  So I read someone was using a cartridge trimmer.  I price that out with the steel pilot, no brass ones available, and it's like $45 shipped.  I get it delivered and its much smaller than I thought.  The pilot extends 1/2 inch into the barrel and is mostly tapered.  So it doesn't do a lot of stabilizing.  The cutter is larger diameter than my barrel so it should work.  So I start by hand and am getting no where.  I chuck it in my slow screwdriver and it cuts but is leaving radial chatter marks.  I'm mad now.  So I put the cutter in a faster drill hoping the speed will remove the high spots.  Checking every so often the chatter marks are reduced but now the crown is no longer 90 degrees!  @#$%^&!!!! 

So I dig out my files and a square and smooth and square it up again.  Phew!  So I start with the brass screw crowning.  I use three grits with a new screw for each grit.  I get a nice chamfer on the end but I don't see nice crisp lands and grooves under magnification.  So I think the steel pilot wrecked the rifling.  More cursing ensues, I call my self names and question all the time I've spent trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.  Time is money and I calculate how much money I've thrown away. 

I don't touch my pcp's for 3 weeks and enjoy the simplicity of my springers and CMP 853 refurb.  And you know what else?  They just work!  I go and shoot them and they do what is expected of them.  Granted the springers are all full tunes from Mike Melick and unmolested by me lol.  I did have to replace the top cover on the 853 because the rear threads were stripped and kept popping up from the stock.

So I miss my B51 and try to rescue it.  I push pellets through from the breech and there is pretty perfect and very shallow rifling.  Also I feel more resistance in the last inch so the barrel may be choked.  Or rusty!  lol  I'm just kidding.

I push pellets in from the muzzle about half an inch in total and push them out.  Just to isolate the muzzle end.  They too have shallow but even rifling.  So I realize it's not as bad as I thought.  And I've never shot the rifle for accuracy.  It may already be capable of great accuracy.

Would I do it all over again?  Heck yeah!  I learned a lot. 

So Ray, the T200 will serve many functions for me.

Sorry everyone for my rant but I do feel better now!   

Now on with your regularly scheduled program......

[Taso1000]

Ribbonstone,

I've tried to apply coupons before but they never take anything off the price.  In the T200 listing under the price on the right side it says:

"Excluded from coupons
This item is not eligible for coupon discounts"

If I remember correctly the CMP or some other organizing body puts a price limit on the rifles.  So I think the Challenger and T200 are limited to $525?  I read it somewhere a while ago.

Taso

[SpiralGroove]

Go to AGD, they off the gun at $525; it's eligible for discounts.
I never buy a gun unless I get 10% to 15% off
Kirk

[Taso1000]

Hi All,

I apologize if I offended anyone with my rant.  It seems talking about my tinkeritis brought this thread to a screeching halt.   I didn't not intend that. 

Taso

[scrane]

The best thing about the t200 is its CZ barrel, which is a very good thing. It uses an action originally designed for a pistol and the way it is mounted in the stock is kind of funky. Air Arms and other US distributors market the Air Arms version with the one piece stock while CC sells the original CZ two piece stock. I have heard that the CZ target model is non adjustable, which in my opinion is not a good thing.
The T200 puts out lots of shots on a charge and is a fun plinker and play target gun. Due to its configuration it can be prone to shifting poi.

[Taso1000]

Thank You Scrane.  Can you elaborate on the shifting point of aim? 

Kirk,

I tried applying a first time buyer agd coupon code but it still doesn't take anything off the T200 rifle. It did take off 4 bucks from the din to foster adapter.

All,

I found out that the S400 is not like the T200. The T200 is based off the CZ rifle and the S400 is Air Arms.  From what Scrane said the T200 is based off a pistol?

Which is better suited to my requirements do you think?  T200  or S400. I dont think the S400 is twice as good as the T200.  But if there is some benefit to paying double please point it out or agree that the benefit isn't there.

We are comparing the one piece stock version of the T200 to the S400 MPR.

Thank you!

Taso

[scrane]

The t200 is analogous to an old style falling breach action as opposed to the more common and easily bedded tubular receiver. When you look closely the action rests on a very thin piece of wood in the front.
It is very sensitive to how tightly the action is torqued.
IMO the AA MPR-FT is a very fine rifle and technically superior to the t200. Unfortunately it has been discontinued. It is a gun I regret selling. The one criticism that comes up is has a short length of pull, although it came from the factory supplied with butt spacers. Not easy to Find nowadays.

[Tweeter]

Taso, I have an S400 carbine and will say it is an excellent rifle.  Very light, compact and accurate.  I think the T200 would be a better choice for you this time considering your requirements.  You can turn the power down on the S400 but you won't get near  as many shots as you would with the 200.

Whoops sorry, just noticed that you were asking about the mpr.

[Taso1000]

Hi All,

I just wanted to give a little closure to this post.  A member on here reached out to me with an FWB 601 he wanted to sell.  I picked it up and I am real happy with it.  But gosh, is it heavy.  I know in time I will get used to it.  It is super accurate.  I have not changed any configurations.

I still think a lighter rifle has a spot in my gun rack. MPR, T200 and 1720T's are on my watch lists.  The MPR and T200 will need ldc's.  The 1720T will need a stock and possibly the M-Rod/P-Rod trigger.  The Challenger stock would be nice but it's around $140.  The trigger is around $50 I think.

Thanks to all for your suggestions and help!

Taso

[Rallyshark]

  I bet a BSA Ultra with an LDC or shroud would be a sweet little gun.