Used SCBA has [i]patches[/i]

[scottyhazzard]

E-Bay, always a gamble in my mind so I'm not certain if the SCBA I have just received from E-Bay is going to pass visual inspection. (I also have never owned an SCBA, so kinda clueless)

The tank is an Interspiro 45 min tank built in Oct 2010 and hydrostatic tested March of this year.

http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i455/scottyhazzard/0265EC0E-CFF1-4E78-A54E-BDC083F0270C.jpg

But there is this foam/resin patching on there that makes me wonder if it will pass another visual inspection or if it has just been protected in some of the deeper chips or scratches.

http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i455/scottyhazzard/A1D88DAF-528B-42CE-8C76-0B0BA4416F38.jpg

Can anyone tell me if this is normal or if I should send it back?

[QVTom]

Wow that tank is hammered.  I'd take it in for an inspection just to see what they say or return it. 

Tom

[scottyhazzard]

I think that's what I'll do tomorrow. Thanks.

[jward681]

I would definitely get the visual and then contact the seller if there is an issue.

[scottyhazzard]

I took the tank in to my local fill station for a visual inspection and fill. I figure that is prudent even with a good looking tank and especially prudent with my eyesore of a tank. It was just hydro'ed in March but I'm wary of E-Bay and I have never seen this type of patching material. It's a tarnish opaque polymer looking hard foam. I'm not sure if it's just to protect the material underneath and stabilize the damage or if it's something bad. At $150 shipped for a 2010 45 min tank with a fresh hydro I'm way skeptical. We'll have to see. Might be done by Friday as the guy that does the testing is out until tomorrow...

[Mod90]

Just my opinion here.
I'd send it back ASAP & demand a refund, including all shipping charges & taxes associated with the sale. That thing looks like a hazard.

Even though it might pass a VI, I personally wouldn't chance keeping it filled with any amount of pressure in it in close proximity to myself or anyone else.

[scottyhazzard]

Mod90- Now I'm nervous. It passed the hydro with those patches about a month ago which makes me think the fibers under the clear shell are intact. I was concerned that if the outside looks this bad that the inside might have hidden horrors. You are saying even if it passes visual and has passed a hydro that I should boot it. Now I'm really unsure about this thing. I had come to believe that these little tanks are incredibly strong and can take a lot of abuse until the fibers around the tank itself are damaged and start to unravel or fray. For lack of a better description it looks like the clear candy shell on the outside of the tank was chipped or flaked off like the shell of a hard boiled egg but that the fiber shell beneath remains. I'm going to have to talk with the tank guy, Etse at the dive shop and the seller. I don't want an HPA bomb.

[BigTinBoat]

Mod90- Now I'm nervous. It passed the hydro with those patches about a month ago which makes me think the fibers under the clear shell are intact. I was concerned that if the outside looks this bad that the inside might have hidden horrors. You are saying even if it passes visual and has passed a hydro that I should boot it. Now I'm really unsure about this thing. I had come to believe that these little tanks are incredibly strong and can take a lot of abuse until the fibers around the tank itself are damaged and start to unravel or fray. For lack of a better description it looks like the clear candy shell on the outside of the tank was chipped or flaked off like the shell of a hard boiled egg but that the fiber shell beneath remains. I'm going to have to talk with the tank guy, Etse at the dive shop and the seller. I don't want an HPA bomb.

Likely nothing at all wrong with that tank. Take a trip to your local fire house and ask to see  few of their tanks that are in service and have been in service for a while, you'll see.....

[blackdiesel]

Far as I know carbon fiber tanks don't require a visual.  When I got mine hydro tested the person said "visual" is something dive shops are concerned with-he was only doing the hydro.

[scottyhazzard]

I talked at length with a guy who's name escapes me right now, but he is in charge of a DOT program for certification and extending the lives of 15 year old SCBAs for the navy and soon for civilians; my understanding from him was that if the bottle could take the crazy pressure of a hydro test it could certainly withstand the pressure of a fill and that a tank with pressure in it can handle storage and abuse better than an empty tank. But this information is not from my realm of experience.

I think it is analogous to my work as an ER nurse. People come to me every shift terrified, telling me that they have this sign and that symptom of a diagnosis that they have read about and can speak intelligently about. However because of my education and years of experience I can tell in a few moments that they don't have those signs or symptoms and they have something else that is much less severe and is actually very common. They almost always don't believe me and are skeptical of what I explain to them until after the tests come back. Then maybe 20% still think the doctor and I are wrong. That usually frustrates me- come to the expert and only follow your own advice.

I'm going to have to consult the professional with experience and get his guidance. I don't want to be blasé about the respect I feel 4500psi demands but I also don't want to be paranoid and fearful out of my ignorance.

I can't thank you all enough for your input in helping me with this. It is very much appreciated, thanks.

[Doug Wall]

That cylinder appears to have level 3 damage, and will not pass inspection. I'd say that the seller owes you a full refund.

http://www.dcfpnavymil.org/Personnel%20Protection/SCBA/SCBA%20Tip%2020/CarbonFiberSCBACylInsp.pdf

http://www.galiso.com/Training/mobile/pdf/Luxferscbaguide2.pdf

[BigTinBoat]

That cylinder appears to have level 3 damage, and will not pass inspection. I'd say that the seller owes you a full refund.

http://www.dcfpnavymil.org/Personnel%20Protection/SCBA/SCBA%20Tip%2020/CarbonFiberSCBACylInsp.pdf

http://www.galiso.com/Training/mobile/pdf/Luxferscbaguide2.pdf

Real hard to tell from the pics, but sure looks like just Level 1 damage to me. The gelcoat is chipped. I don't see any glass fiber nor carbon fiber showing thru.

[Doug Wall]

Take a better look at the big white patch. I see about 3 layers of glass cut through. The holes don't appear deeper, because someone has filled them in with some kind of resin and you can't see the bottom. The Luxifer link lists level 3 damage as deeper than 0.030". Doesn't take much to cut down 0.030".

[LDP]

That cylinder appears to have level 3 damage, and will not pass inspection. I'd say that the seller owes you a full refund.

http://www.dcfpnavymil.org/Personnel%20Protection/SCBA/SCBA%20Tip%2020/CarbonFiberSCBACylInsp.pdf

http://www.galiso.com/Training/mobile/pdf/Luxferscbaguide2.pdf

Real hard to tell from the pics, but sure looks like just Level 1 damage to me. The gelcoat is chipped. I don't see any glass fiber nor carbon fiber showing thru.

That pic doesnt allow you to make that assumption. First the damage has something covering it so you cant see how deep the damage actually is and if the fibers are damaged. I am not saying it has worse damage than lev1 but it has been stated several times the damage is covered by some type of foam or resin. So without being able to see the damage its really hard for anyone on the forum to say its all good. I would either ask for a refund or get it looked at by someone qualified in determining if the tank is compromised.

[amb5500c]

[/quote]


Likely nothing at all wrong with that tank. Take a trip to your local fire house and ask to see  few of their tanks that are in service and have been in service for a while, you'll see.....
[/quote]

I am a fireman and have been using this type of equipment ever since it came out. They ARE way tougher than you think. It is not uncommon to see maintenance of this sort. The carbon fiber is wrapped around an aluminum tank. If the CF gets scraped up, it gets patched like that to keep the damage to a minimum. If the tests are current, you should be good to go. But being as you aren't privy to the exact history, then a new inspection is not a bad idea.
Richard

[BigTinBoat]

That cylinder appears to have level 3 damage, and will not pass inspection. I'd say that the seller owes you a full refund.

http://www.dcfpnavymil.org/Personnel%20Protection/SCBA/SCBA%20Tip%2020/CarbonFiberSCBACylInsp.pdf

http://www.galiso.com/Training/mobile/pdf/Luxferscbaguide2.pdf

Real hard to tell from the pics, but sure looks like just Level 1 damage to me. The gelcoat is chipped. I don't see any glass fiber nor carbon fiber showing thru.

That pic doesnt allow you to make that assumption. First the damage has something covering it so you cant see how deep the damage actually is and if the fibers are damaged. I am not saying it has worse damage than lev1 but it has been stated several times the damage is covered by some type of foam or resin. So without being able to see the damage its really hard for anyone on the forum to say its all good. I would either ask for a refund or get it looked at by someone qualified in determining if the tank is compromised.

Leland - that was not an assumption, that was what I did NOT see. Do you see any fibers?........... Didn't think so. Without tank in hand all of the "Level 3 damage" , "potential bomb" and other comments are just speculation.

Did you read what OP wrote?

Mod90- Now I'm nervous. It passed the hydro with those patches about a month ago which makes me think the fibers under the clear shell are intact. I was concerned that if the outside looks this bad that the inside might have hidden horrors. You are saying even if it passes visual and has passed a hydro that I should boot it. Now I'm really unsure about this thing. I had come to believe that these little tanks are incredibly strong and can take a lot of abuse until the fibers around the tank itself are damaged and start to unravel or fray. For lack of a better description it looks like the clear candy shell on the outside of the tank was chipped or flaked off like the shell of a hard boiled egg but that the fiber shell beneath remains. I'm going to have to talk with the tank guy, Etse at the dive shop and the seller. I don't want an HPA bomb.

[scottyhazzard]

Hopefully tomorrow I will hear back from Estey or Este from Fish Eye Scuba tomorrow or next week. They still have the tank there. As for the resin patches, they looked and felt like they were on top of something flat and smooth. Not a hint of fiber. I scratched and tapped at them and my impression was that they were a patch to hold that gelcoat from pealing up and protect the still smooth carbon/glass matrix. No hint of fibers at all. I would have boxed it right up.

We'll have to wait and see what Este says. I hope I don't have to wait until Monday. I will post when I have some facts.

[BigTinBoat]

Hopefully tomorrow I will hear back from Estey or Este from Fish Eye Scuba tomorrow or next week. They still have the tank there. As for the resin patches, they looked and felt like they were on top of something flat and smooth. Not a hint of fiber. I scratched and tapped at them and my impression was that they were a patch to hold that gelcoat from pealing up and protect the still smooth carbon/glass matrix. No hint of fibers at all. I would have boxed it right up.

We'll have to wait and see what Este says. I hope I don't have to wait until Monday. I will post when I have some facts.

Sounds like the tank is fine, and did you see Rich's reply?

I am a fireman and have been using this type of equipment ever since it came out. They ARE way tougher than you think. It is not uncommon to see maintenance of this sort. The carbon fiber is wrapped around an aluminum tank. If the CF gets scraped up, it gets patched like that to keep the damage to a minimum. If the tests are current, you should be good to go. But being as you aren't privy to the exact history, then a new inspection is not a bad idea.
Richard

[oldpro]

 My personal opinion is dont take chances and find another tank. regardless of what is ok or normal you cannot see what could be a problem and that many patches scares me. If it was my kids Noway would I let them use it and using that same thinking no way would I tell a friend like you to use it  or take a chance. Be safe and a few extra dollars for a better tank could possibly save you some grief .

[vigilandy]

Take a better look at the big white patch. I see about 3 layers of glass cut through. The holes don't appear deeper, because someone has filled them in with some kind of resin and you can't see the bottom. The Luxifer link lists level 3 damage as deeper than 0.030". Doesn't take much to cut down 0.030".

0.030"  = 0.762mm.   That's really a tiny amount!  I didn't realize that's all it takes to condemn a tank.  Now I'm glad the tanks I got for my dad were new (old stock) and hadn't been beat up.