Got me an ugly girl, 1961 Benjamin 317

[Rob112o]

Scored on craigslist yet again!! Not a 177 shooter, but it was close, was asking 100, and guy was willing to meet so had to go take a look. Of course the pics on the ad made it look like it was in good condition. Up close and personal it was looking her age. All metal parts had a good amount of rust. The finish coat looked about gone. Lot of sticky stuff on her. I pulled trigger and pop little air came out. A bit of slop in the arm, forearm has a crack running down it a good 2-3 inches. Tried pumping it up and no go on taking air whether I cocked it or not. I could hear and feel it was rubbing on something inside the air tube, like there was sand in there. It did have the V-bar with a nice touch of rust. After a little bit of chit chat I told him I wouldnt be comfortable with spending anymore the 60 bucks. He was happy he got it for free from his buddy who found it in a house he was remodeling.

[bbv13]

For $60 that's a really good deal!

Bryan

[Gertrude]

i'd say you did very well, good find, and have fun bringing that old girl back to her former glory.
 that should be a fun little project, and be sure to take lots of pics along the way.
 We very much enjoy watching and seeing the progress and resurrection of the older classic "barn finds".

looking forward to following a restoration thread on her.

[bbv13]

Hi Rob,

About a year ago I picked up a 317 from another member. Talan actually gave it to me for shipping cost and I bumped him some for his trouble. The gun is a complete basket case and I knew that up front. When I scored the 312 it motivated me to start working on it and I just bought parts for about what you paid for your rifle. I got most of what I needed but not all. I figure all said and done I'm going to be in it for around $150 plus labor. Anytime you pick up a complete gun for under $100 it's a great deal. I bet you will have that gun shooting like a champ soon.

I fixed a crack in my 310's forearm with JBWeld wood epoxy. I opened it up some with a dremel from the back side to get more of the epoxy in it instead of just using it on the crack. The crack is still visible but isn't getting worse. Here's a picture of it. It's just part of the gun and normally I don't even think about it.

Bryan
 

[anuthabubba]

WOW! That's a beauty that's in really good shape!

[Rob112o]

Well, the insides where an absolute mess. That sound of sand being in the air tube wasn't too off. Looks to have been Moly, it had a very strong odor though? Must have been mixed with something else. There was bits of black things inside. The pump cup however was still soft and pliable.
   Well, I have the joy of resealing a keyed valve and keyed lead washer. Man, is this so much tougher then the standard valve that can be put back in any way. I started off trying to re-use all original parts which surprisingly where all quite soft, the check valve rubber and valve stem rubber. It had lead front washer and keyed lead rear washer. Just gave a good cleaning and oiling. After getting it all together it was a no go. When pumping it still wouldn't take air. Just effortless pumping.

[bbv13]

There should be another lead seal that doesn't have a leaf on it. It goes on the opposite end of the valve and seats on that thin ledge. Is it stuck in the gun or missing?

Bryan

[Rob112o]

There should be another lead seal that doesn't have a leaf on it. It goes on the opposite end of the valve and seats on that thin ledge. Is it stuck in the gun or missing?

Bryan

Yea that lead washer is down there, can't even tell its there. Only way I know it's there is doing a "tap test". Using a long piece of metal tapping on the first lip the valve nut screws flush with then tapping the next lip where the valve body seats against. You have to listen carefully, but you can hear a subtle difference in the tap(for you first time rebuilders). There have been times where I can see the edge between the washer and lip, but this one has become one with the rifle over 55 years.

[Rob112o]

This is a first for me. Have any of you guys had a little price rubber/plastic glued to the tip of the striker? When the hammer came out I noticed it right away. Pushed it with my finger and it popped off. Looks to have been there from the get go.

I have it shifted over, but you can see it was glued dead center on that clean spot.

[JoeV]

Good score! Whe I rebuilt my '58 312, I put the modern valve in it. Cost about $5 and change with the rest of the parts, and no fooling with the key slot. Sure made my life easier, especially with my first rebuild.

I left the lower  lead seal inside the valve, as my was fused in place as well. No leaks when I seated the new valve.

My hammer didn't have anything on it like yours has. Wonder if someone added that, or it was a variant with a short life that didn't make it to '58. Lol

[bbv13]

There should be another lead seal that doesn't have a leaf on it. It goes on the opposite end of the valve and seats on that thin ledge. Is it stuck in the gun or missing?

Bryan

Yea that lead washer is down there, can't even tell its there. Only way I know it's there is doing a "tap test". Using a long piece of metal tapping on the first lip the valve nut screws flush with then tapping the next lip where the valve body seats against. You have to listen carefully, but you can hear a subtle difference in the tap(for you first time rebuilders). There have been times where I can see the edge between the washer and lip, but this one has become one with the rifle over 55 years.

The re-seal kit I got for my 310 had a thin plastic washer that goes in on top of the lead washer without a leaf. Are you re-using the old stuff just to see what happens?

I've taken a few apart and not seen anything like the dob of glue on the hammer?

Bryan

[Rob112o]

After multiple attempts of removing and installing valve it was still a no go. I even scrapped out the front lead washer. (Boy, is that a pain in the rear!!)and installed Mac1's oring..Nope. I swapped out pump cup...Nope. I adjusted the piston length...Nope. It would only take in minimal air. I could pump it 8 times and it would only be 1 pump worthy. I compressed conical spring...Nope. I swapped out conical spring with a much lighter one...Nope. Swapped the keyed lead washer with the Mac1 oring...Nope. Again went back to piston length, doing 1/2 turns until it was clear I wouldn't be able to close it...Nope. Went back into the valve and took out the 2 spring and just got 1 long light spring....NOPE. At this point you can only imagine the fury that I was in. Having done many a seal jobs, I've been able to do them now with my eyes closed. I don't worry about having to take anything apart. Don't worry about buying a beater at a great price. Itw just 2nd nature now. So I'm sitting there looking at this rifle on the table, wanting to smash it to pieces. Look over some of the parts on the table. Hmmm, lemme take a look at the original pump cup maybe I'll put that back on. BOOM!! I had put the original back in after taking it out. Like, I was saying the original pump cup was soft, pliable, with no nicks and tears. I had thought it would be reusable, but that wasn't the case. So I took off the front end again and sure enough problems solved.
    I got a nice vintage Weaver Model 329 for cheap from CL. It came with the original mount. Which can't be used. So I went and bought a Crosman 4x15 because they didn't have 3/4 rings for sale.

[Hare splittin]

Nice. Glad you got it holding air.

How much are you going to clean it up on the outside? The last picture posted does not look too bad.

[bbv13]

Nice!!! I like the vintage scope.

Bryan

[Rob112o]

Nice. Glad you got it holding air.

How much are you going to clean it up on the outside? The last picture posted does not look too bad.

I just hand rubbed her with some oil. She was so dry before, really soaked in the oil. I wanted this rifle as a beater to take along for pesting. Be able to man handle her and not have to worry about it getting dinged up and knocked around a little. After, seeing the beautiful grain with just a rub down of oil she is really screaming to be refinished. Now, I'm left with a tough decision. I really miss having that beater rifle. I should have never traded that 140.

[Rob112o]

I will need to fix the pump arm. It was a little worse then I first thought. With each pump I can hear her creeking a little. Maybe this will be the deciding factor for refinishing the whole stock.
   She does shoot incredibly accurate. I got me a baby HOSP not much bigger then a quarter from about 15 yards. Loves the cheap Beeman pointed pellets which they selling right down the street at Big5.

[jward681]

Rob I'll toss this out there for you.....I bought a 347 off CL last year but then gun had a small fracture running through the butt stock along the grip area. Even though I know I could fix it with minimal visibility, I tracked down another stock to refinish as the rifles action shows minimal finish loss so wanted a nicer gun after all said and done.

I'm not 100% sure if the 312/317 and 342/347 stocks are interchangeable but if you find they are and want to save you're nicer stock for future use PM me and we can work it out.  You could then just repair the pump arm and keep the rifle set up as the beater you were after.

BTW I've been eyeballing a 312 non functioning rifle that's listed at $60....I may just have to pull the trigger on that one after reading this lol

Best of luck,
John

[Rob112o]

Rob I'll toss this out there for you.....I bought a 347 off CL last year but then gun had a small fracture running through the butt stock along the grip area. Even though I know I could fix it with minimal visibility, I tracked down another stock to refinish as the rifles action shows minimal finish loss so wanted a nicer gun after all said and done.

I'm not 100% sure if the 312/317 and 342/347 stocks are interchangeable but if you find they are and want to save you're nicer stock for future use PM me and we can work it out.  You could then just repair the pump arm and keep the rifle set up as the beater you were after.

BTW I've been eyeballing a 312 non functioning rifle that's listed at $60....I may just have to pull the trigger on that one after reading this lol

Best of luck,
John

Thanks for the offer John. I'll let you know I'm waiting for a couple things to sell. Not sure if it will fit or not, but I'm never opposed to having spare parts for any Benjamin rifle. Did you end up getting the 312?

[bbv13]

Hi Rob,

I'm thinking I want to make my 317 like a nice rat rod. I'm going to leave the stock as is and re-blue the screw heads. I'm debating cleaning it again with lacquer thinner and touching up the bronze black? I don't want it to be too nice because it's going to be a shooter.

I don't know how much better you can make that crack in the forearm? I'm sure you can make it look better and not get any worse. The forearm 310 I have was close to that bad before I glued it with JBWeld and refinished it.

Glad you found the safety ball for the 397! They're like a needle in a haystack when you lose one.

Bryan