Got my new Hatsan 125TH .25 cal

[SteveP-52]

Joe, you made me actually sign up instead of just lurking   . Sorry to see the piston seal issue, that's a bummer on a new gun.  I just got a 125 synthetic springer on Monday in .25. My numbers are not too far off of yours. I cleaned the bbl with ballistol, pushed a pellet through it to check the rifling (will likely hand lap with JB paste over the weekend) and put about 30 shots across the chrony. I don't have my sheet but the Benjamin domes were high 600s, JSB Exacts around 715ish, and the H&N FTTs around 790-805. This was the first 30 shots

...

If those were in the order listed maybe it's the seal settling in or there was sparse lube and it is getting distributed?  I'd try again with the  Benjamin domes, if you still get 600's I'd suspect you got a oversized bore (and send it back for a replacement).  You can push a pellet through to check also...

I had to go check the weight on the Benji domes, but for a brand new .25 cal springer rated for 750fps, those don't seem like overly bad starting numbers considering the Benji's weigh almost 28gr, the JSB's are 25.39 and would shoot a little faster and the FTT's weigh in at all of about 20gr and would be quite a bit faster yet.

[Diced1]

Joe, you made me actually sign up instead of just lurking   . Sorry to see the piston seal issue, that's a bummer on a new gun.  I just got a 125 synthetic springer on Monday in .25. My numbers are not too far off of yours. I cleaned the bbl with ballistol, pushed a pellet through it to check the rifling (will likely hand lap with JB paste over the weekend) and put about 30 shots across the chrony. I don't have my sheet but the Benjamin domes were high 600s, JSB Exacts around 715ish, and the H&N FTTs around 790-805. This was the first 30 shots

...

If those were in the order listed maybe it's the seal settling in or there was sparse lube and it is getting distributed?  I'd try again with the  Benjamin domes, if you still get 600's I'd suspect you got a oversized bore (and send it back for a replacement).  You can push a pellet through to check also...

Those were in order. The Benjamin domes are  27.8 grains (came free with my synrod) (JSBs 25.39, FTTs 19.) I did push a JSB exact 25.4 down the bbl with a Tipton .22 rod. There were slight marks on the pellet but it went through pretty easily, but I imagine the pellet skirt flares out from the heat and pressure to fully engage the rifling. I'll shoot it some more and see what happens. I thought the numbers weren't terrible compared to the guy with the posts of the various pellets (within 25fps). Do you mean the air chamber could be oversized? 

I don't really have a frame of reference on these guns. I would hate to have a good one in my hands and send it back to get one that's got issues. The real test will be accuracy when j can actually shoot groups instead of just into a trap in my garage.

[Methuselah]

Joe, you made me actually sign up instead of just lurking   . Sorry to see the piston seal issue, that's a bummer on a new gun.  I just got a 125 synthetic springer on Monday in .25. My numbers are not too far off of yours. I cleaned the bbl with ballistol, pushed a pellet through it to check the rifling (will likely hand lap with JB paste over the weekend) and put about 30 shots across the chrony. I don't have my sheet but the Benjamin domes were high 600s, JSB Exacts around 715ish, and the H&N FTTs around 790-805. This was the first 30 shots

...

If those were in the order listed maybe it's the seal settling in or there was sparse lube and it is getting distributed?  I'd try again with the  Benjamin domes, if you still get 600's I'd suspect you got a oversized bore (and send it back for a replacement).  You can push a pellet through to check also...

Those were in order. The Benjamin domes are  27.8 grains (came free with my synrod) (JSBs 25.39, FTTs 19.) I did push a JSB exact 25.4 down the bbl with a Tipton .22 rod. There were slight marks on the pellet but it went through pretty easily, but I imagine the pellet skirt flares out from the heat and pressure to fully engage the rifling. I'll shoot it some more and see what happens. I thought the numbers weren't terrible compared to the guy with the posts of the various pellets (within 25fps). Do you mean the air chamber could be oversized? 

I don't really have a frame of reference on these guns. I would hate to have a good one in my hands and send it back to get one that's got issues. The real test will be accuracy when j can actually shoot groups instead of just into a trap in my garage.

I guess with big weight differences I should have recommended comparing by FPE.  The lighter the pellet the higher you would expect the FPE to be (within reason).  Sorry I wasn't paying enough attention to details!

[Methuselah]

Those were in order. The Benjamin domes are  27.8 grains (came free with my synrod) (JSBs 25.39, FTTs 19.) I did push a JSB exact 25.4 down the bbl with a Tipton .22 rod. There were slight marks on the pellet but it went through pretty easily, but I imagine the pellet skirt flares out from the heat and pressure to fully engage the rifling.

The calculator here:  http://www.airguns.net/calculators.php


Gave;

Benjamin domes   29.4 FPE @ 680
JSB Exacts  28.8 FPE @ 715
H&N FTTs  26.8 FPE @ 797

Could be within expected variance if the numbers stay the same over time because some may be a better fit than others.  Again, my bad

[Inspector3711]

If i owned a company that had repetitive seal issues, I would buy seals from the guy that makes better ones.  Companies are looking to squeeze every penny instead of looking at long term customer satisfaction.

I hate to hear about anyone having trouble with products that cost a few hundred dollars.  With all the RWS fans out there, it's interesting to read that they can have problems as well.  I considered a RWS 34 or 350 for this purchase,  but I really wanted to go gas piston.  I was also on a budget and those rifles were above my limit.  I figured that the hatsan was a better value for me.

[Diced1]

If i owned a company that had repetitive seal issues, I would buy seals from the guy that makes better ones.  Companies are looking to squeeze every penny instead of looking at long term customer satisfaction.

I hate to hear about anyone having trouble with products that cost a few hundred dollars.  With all the RWS fans out there, it's interesting to read that they can have problems as well.  I considered a RWS 34 or 350 for this purchase,  but I really wanted to go gas piston.  I was also on a budget and those rifles were above my limit.  I figured that the hatsan was a better value for me.

It is a shame when QC isn't up to par. But yes every company has some bad stuff that slips through. And those are the ones you hear about. RWS is a better made rifle by a good stretch IMO, I have 6 of them... Just like these hatsans because they are pretty freaking powerful for the money. I started a separate thread to not derail Joes. But if I didn't like what I saw when I opened this one, I wouldn't have ordered a second. They are cheap enough I won't feel to nervous about banging it around camping etc, and for the money and a little elbow grease it seems like you can have a decent accurate sledgehammer.

[JoeV]

My other three Hatsan 95s are all tack drivers, and this one has the potential to be one as well. As soon as I took it apart I voided the warranty, but since the piston seal and spring are really the only two things that can break/wear out, at $200 I look at its a the price of education  to learn how to maintain or improve the performance of my collection. At worst,  I have an underperforming airgun, but I don't anticipate that happening. I'm studying at the GTA University which is repleat with willing professors to insure their student's success. For that I am thankful.

[Inspector3711]

Joe, I don't mind working on them myself, but I work so much these days, it's hard to find time.

I've tuned and installed plenty of centerfire triggers, steamed out dents in wood stocks and refinished many.  I've lapped bores, upgraded firing pin springs, removed bluing and refinished with guncoat, and recrowned a few barrels. I even built a custom 10/22 and assembled a upper for my ar. 

Then in 2008 I took a new job.  Not as much me time since then....

The point is, I won't hassle with the warranty if I can fix it, I just hope I get a good one so I don't have to work on it right away other than a cleaning.  Besides, when I do get a weekend off, my wife always has projects for me to get caught up on haha.

[JoeV]

The new piston seal is in, the sharp edges have all been filed with curved needle files to get the underside of the slots in the body tube, then sanded with crocus cloth, and the gun is completely reassembled. I did learn something additional that was not in any of the tuneup videos...while assembling the trigger group, you have to set the seer and keep the trigger from setting it off until it is mounted and pinned into the body tube. I could find nowhere that said you must actuate the trigger AFTER it's installed and pinned, before cocking the gun, or you cannot engage the seer with the cocking motion...it's already set! It weird to go through a 50# cocking stroke, only to have the barrel return to the starting point and not engage the seer. Fortunately, I kept a tight grip on the barrel, and slowly released the barrel to its starting point so it wouldn't spring back and slam shut. I thought I tripped the seer...TWICE...which kept it from engaging, and tore down the gun and removed the tigger group to reset the seer. The third time (I'm a slow learner) I looked in the access hole and saw that the seer was still set, so I actuated the trigger, cocked the gun and the seer engaged. Did I tell you sometimes I have to learn things the hard way? LOL!

After going through all this effort, I'm happy to present the following Chrony data for the four pellets I have for this gun. I shot 20, 19.91 gr. H&N FTT pellets to seat the seal, and by pellet #10, the dieseling was over. At that point I began to fire over the Chrony with open sights to collect the data. I must admit that the shots were quite consistent, even though I was basically just trying to stay centered over the Chrony. The pellets grouped quite well for firing 50 of them. The initial 20 shots were on a blank sheet of paper with a magic marker dot in the center. In all, 70 pellets were fired this evening.

At the end of the day, I'm a happy camper, and a much better educated air gun enthusiast. I will not hesitate to tackle another tune up when it presents itself, but for now, everything is working well. Once my brother sees this new data, I'm sure he will be ordering the new seal for me to put in his Hatsan 125TH as well. This will be a great varmit rifle, as the H&N Baracuda retains 606 FPS and 25.23 FPE at 50 yards. That's pretty darn impressive for a $200 air rifle.

Thanks for all the coaching, counseling and encouragement during my first tune. I appreciate the support of everyone here.

Joe

[Privateer]

I did learn something additional that was not in any of the tuneup videos...while assembling the trigger group, you have to set the seer and keep the trigger from setting it off until it is mounted and pinned into the body tube. I could find nowhere that said you must actuate the trigger AFTER it's installed and pinned, before cocking the gun, or you cannot engage the seer with the cocking motion...it's already set!

Somewhere in the vast knowledge pool we call The GTA that issue was pointed out several times.
 
Good to see another Buckeye is getting it.
 

[Inspector3711]

Very nice!

[JoeV]

I did learn something additional that was not in any of the tuneup videos...while assembling the trigger group, you have to set the seer and keep the trigger from setting it off until it is mounted and pinned into the body tube. I could find nowhere that said you must actuate the trigger AFTER it's installed and pinned, before cocking the gun, or you cannot engage the seer with the cocking motion...it's already set!

Somewhere in the vast knowledge pool we call The GTA that issue was pointed out several times.
 
Good to see another Buckeye is getting it.
 

Jeff, the videos I refer to were not linked from GTA, but were from a search engine return. I sometimes find GTA a bit fussy when doing a search, so I was relying on the videos. Also, I Sometimes do better with SEEING what's going on as opposed to just reading about it. I guess I'm like a kid in kindergarten who does good with picture books, or like some of my fellow 65 year old compatriots. LOL!!! I still manage to do pretty good for a grandpa, and I've survived another day on the green side of the grass. 


I was over your way a couple of years ago with my brother. There was a older gentleman who used to cast bullets in a small outbuilding on his property, and we bought about 8,000 - 10,000 cast bullets in various calibers from him for reloading for my pistol caliber carbines. He threw in a couple of boxes of 500 .45 ACP for the big order. He made nice cast bullets for a small time operator. Just can't remember his name...he casts for a few fellas that frequent the Ohio Gun Show circuit.

[JoeV]

Very nice!

Thanks, Blake. I'm pleased with th outcome.

[Inspector3711]

Those little needle files come in handy.  Bought a set for my rc hobby. 

I enjoy learning.  Built most of my rc cars and trucks.  That's why I do most of my own gunsmithing. 

I have yet to tear my old Gamo apart a single time, but I've been  thinking about upgrades for it.

Got my 125 sniper vortex  today....   

[Diced1]

Nice work. Aside from the little extra practice looks like it went well and added a few fps. Did you find it difficult to remove the soft oversized screws? That trigger is the only thing that makes me nervous about tearing into one. Just looks so much more complicated than Diana rifles which pretty much just pop out and in with one piece without all that extra stuff. If you measured your spring see if your brothers is the same length, I'm curious to the variance there.

[JoeV]

Nice work. Aside from the little extra practice looks like it went well and added a few fps. Did you find it difficult to remove the soft oversized screws? That trigger is the only thing that makes me nervous about tearing into one. Just looks so much more complicated than Diana rifles which pretty much just pop out and in with one piece without all that extra stuff. If you measured your spring see if your brothers is the same length, I'm curious to the variance there.

The trigger group is a handful...literally! I watched a few videos by Mike Ellingsworth, and it was very helpful. Here's the link to his YouTube channel...
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCfGetm1fl6BTFtfg9E9Nmnw

As for the screws, I've worked with so much junk over the years, that I just treat all screws as if they are soft. Proper driver and lots of downward pressure does the trick.

[Methuselah]

Wow Joe, ya done really good for a first timer by all accounts of seeing many many posts on first attempt  tuning results!

The numbers for extreme spread look great, the dieseling gone before round #10, I'm anxious to see some groups!!!

On the search engine, someone suggested not too long ago to use Google (or was it yahoo) when a post is hard to find without advanced search functions.  I believe it's now a sticky.

Did you button, touch up the leade, re-crown, or change "the 3mm screw"?

Again, really good numbers 

[JoeV]

Wow Joe, ya done really good for a first timer by all accounts of seeing many many posts on first attempt  tuning results!

The numbers for extreme spread look great, the dieseling gone before round #10, I'm anxious to see some groups!!!

On the search engine, someone suggested not too long ago to use Google (or was it yahoo) when a post is hard to find without advanced search functions.  I believe it's now a sticky.

Did you button, touch up the leade, re-crown, or change "the 3mm screw"?

Again, really good numbers 

Thanks, Steve. Didn't do any of the other enhancements, because, quite frankly, I don't know what the heck they are! How's that for honesty? 

Anyway, I spent some more time sending lead downrange, and I'm pleased with the groups for now. Also reevaluated the Chrony numbers using 10-shot groups for more realistic look at each pellet. Here's where I'm at right now...

[Inspector3711]

Time to open it up and let it breath more at 30 yards!

Making me jealous.  Part 1 of my drywall work for today is done.  Wait for that to dry in then on to part 2.  Part three is sand, part 4 texture.  After that I can clean my new 125.   

[need4speedtonka]

Over 100 shots! Wow, how's your arm and shoulder feel? I know if I'd put over 100 rounds through my XL1100 I'd be hurtin' for certain and I imagine the cocking effort on the 125 is probably higher. Thanks for the post, enjoy your new toy!

Ed

i did close to 500 ones with my H125 sniper ,couldnt wait to brake it in hahah ,my arm dint fell