Hatsan Mod 125 super magnum optics killer extraordinaire!

[SpringerForever]

The Tasco 4-16x40 AO Japanese is still going strong at 650+ shots!

Quite amazing!

It still tracks accurately!

It still holds zero during a shooting session!

It still holds zero between shooting sessions!

Might finally have a winner here!

[SpringerForever]

Just another update.

900+ shots & counting for the made in Japan Tasco 4-16x40 AO scope bought off eBay for a 1/5th of the price of a Hawke Sidewinder!

And that's on a true super magnum! A Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper Vortex .25. Peak FPE has been 30+ with JSB Exact King 25.39gr pellets.

[triggerfest]

Could it also be that the Vortex gasram is more friendly on scopes compared with a spring in the 125 ?

I'm considering a Hawke Panorama on the 125, this scope is made with one tube and has a glass edged reticle...

[Topend Yobbo]

Sounds like your on a winner mate , good luck.
Do you have a little fenced off scope graveyard in your back yard?

[Trigger man]

And I definitely don't have an unlimited bank account! Which is why I've resorted to trying to find some oldie but goodies made in Japan scopes at reasonable prices. Mostly on eBay.

There were "dang" few Magnum AG's ten years ago, so it's not surprising that you destroyed vintage glass ill-suited for such trauma. I noticed one candidate missing from your collection... a Beemans Blue Ribbon (a scope specifically designed for AG abuse).

About the leapers.... what exactly failed, and what was Leaper's response?

Interesting read...

https://www.pyramydair.com/article/They_asked_for_it_Leapers_scopes_July_2005/23

-kenny-

[Nico5999]

On my Hatsan 125 I have a Leapers UTG 3-12x44 SWATIRMD True strength scope.  It busted the first one but I sent it back and the new one is holding up nicely.

[JR]

I think the ram guns and tuned spring guns are easier on scopes just because the shot cycle is a little smoother. I have a CP 4-16x44mm on my 125 Vortex and a Trail XL and both in 22 cal and have been ok so far. If a gun had a bad seal or shooting light pellets so the piston hit I can see it jarring the scope harder. A stock out of the box spring gun has extra movement and vibration that can kill the best of scope. Even a scope built for springer's can fail, sometimes you can pick the best of everything and something breaks, just how it is.

[SpringerForever]

Could it also be that the Vortex gasram is more friendly on scopes compared with a spring in the 125 ?

I'm considering a Hawke Panorama on the 125, this scope is made with one tube and has a glass edged reticle...

Could be ... but that hasn't been my experience.

I've been shooting my Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper .25s almost exclusively. NPSS & Vortex. I bought the NPSS version used & received it 6/1/13 & I've had the remanufactured Vortex version since 9/25/13. The latest optics damage has been on one of those two AGs. And the NPSS is rather 'weak' for a super magnum, 'only' outputting 25-26 FPE currently. Which, unfortunately, is where my latest & (not so) greatest Vortex (replacement for the 1st one) has dropped to. Probably due to the typical OEM piston seal. I installed a JM/ARH piston seal in the NPSS & it's doing fine as far as holding/maintaining FPE over time. My NPSS has always been in the 25-26 FPE range. I use the JSB Exact King 25.39gr pellets almost exclusively & all FPE #s are based on those.

But I'm pretty sure that any optic would 'die' even sooner on my favorite .22 super magnum, a coil sprung powered Walther Talon Magnum (AKA Hatsan Mod 125). Altho I haven't shot it much since I received it on 7/1/13. Also bought this one used &, surprise to me, refurbished but it's a powerhouse & I got it for a great price so I've got no reason to complain. Nicer looking too in terms of the bluing than the Hatsans I've had. Not that it matters to me. I've got 310 chronied shots thru it & ~350 total shots but I haven't shot it since 9/8/13. Just addicted to the .25s. Even tho, right now, it's my most powerful super magnum at ~28 FPE. Kinda sad.

Did briefly convert the NPSS back to the OEM coil spring & the FPE jumped to 29+ FPE with the JSB Exact King 25.39gr pellets! But I quickly converted right back to the NPSS. Honestly, didn't even give it enuf time for breakin but I thought I already had my powerhouse .25 in my Vortex. Just a bit premature & I might convert it back to the OEM coil spring if I can't get the Vortex sorted out.

I'm actually going 'backward' in my scope selection. Bought my 1st optics when I took up AGing again last April & I went 'big'. And illuminated. Right now I'm at the stage of selecting only relatively low magnification non-AO/non-PA (Parallax Adjustment) scopes with simple duplex or 30-30 or something similar reticles. I've decided I don't want to deal with the extra complexity of the AO/PA scopes & illumination. I think for my purposes both are unnecessary. But I might change my mind. At least about the AO/PA. Kinda too early to tell. FWIW, weight has never been an issue for me so it's not something I even consider when selecting a scope. I'll note it but it doesn't factor into my selection process.

Most of the optics I've owned have been single tubed. And at least 5 have had glass etched reticles. Doesn't matter any more for me. 1st criteria now is: Was it made in Japan? Everything follows from that. Unless I can get a scope real cheap :-) & then I'm willing to take a chance. At worst, it stops working on my super magnums & I get a replacement/refund. Preferably a refund.

Good luck with your scope choice.

[SpringerForever]

Sounds like your on a winner mate , good luck.
Do you have a little fenced off scope graveyard in your back yard?

Thank you for the encouragement.

And, nope, no scope graveyard! :-)

Luckily I've been able to return a few for a refund & I've given the others away to brothers who know about the issues I've had with them.

Interestingly enuf, relatively recently, one of my brother's got to experience 1st hand what it's like to shoot with a Hawke scope on a Hatsan Mod 125TH .177 which is an absolute laser at 25 yards. When the scope is working properly. Heck, I'm being too harsh. 'All' that happens is that the POI shifts during a shooting session. And between shooting sessions. Not exactly confidence inspiring. Coupled with the delayed turret adjustment corrections even less so. But, hey, they were free! Zero dollars for, not one but two, Hawke Sidewinders so he'd better not complain! :-) Just kidding. If I had the 'guts' I'd have used them both for target practice.

[SpringerForever]

And I definitely don't have an unlimited bank account! Which is why I've resorted to trying to find some oldie but goodies made in Japan scopes at reasonable prices. Mostly on eBay.

There were "dang" few Magnum AG's ten years ago, so it's not surprising that you destroyed vintage glass ill-suited for such trauma. I noticed one candidate missing from your collection... a Beemans Blue Ribbon (a scope specifically designed for AG abuse).

About the leapers.... what exactly failed, and what was Leaper's response?

Interesting read...

https://www.pyramydair.com/article/They_asked_for_it_Leapers_scopes_July_2005/23

-kenny-

Don't know what you'd call the Tasco currently on my Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper Vortex .25? If it isn't vintage I don't know what is?

Leapers lost zero. Got a free replacement. And it's currently on a coil spring powered Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper .22 I gave to one of my brother's. Shot just enuf to confirm zero before giving it to him but that was it. Did warn my brother to not be surprised if it failed. And I gave him a LNIB made in Japan 3-9x?? Tasco as a backup. He hasn't even shot it yet. Been too busy with hunting season & his other weapons.

Another brand I'll never put on any of my guns.

[SpringerForever]

I was reminded by one of the posts of my experience with a Hawke Varmint on a RWS/Diana 54. For those not familiar with the AG it isolates the recoil from the shooter but not the scope & it's a very, very accurate springer as a result. Couldn't shoot it worth a darn with the Varmint tho. Both went to a brother. Didn't much like the RWS/Diana 54 anyway. Or the RWS/Diana 56.

[mpbby]

Springer, I hope you're doing fine with your recent scopes.

Nevertheless, what do you think about trying the Diana ZR mount?

As I am learning since April/2013.., scopes on springers suffer from 'vibrations' and 'recoils'

As far as I know, gas ram would not have 'vibrations', just 'recoils'.  So, the ZR mount could be the solution.

With coil springs, you will always have more or less 'vibrations', but if the 'recoils' become "almost zero", I think it could help a lot.

 

[SpringerForever]

mpbby, I don't know that I'm 'buying' the idea.

The 1st time I saw it, I instantly wondered about recoil in the other direction. Didn't even bother posting about it tho. But I know others have.

Just doesn't make much sense to me to only address recoil in one direction & then on top of that potentially aggravating recoil in the other direction! Essentially: backward spring/ram recoil, forward piston impact recoil & then forward scope mount recoil. That looks like a triple recoil to me. Am I wrong?

[mpbby]

I really hope you are.

I'm with the 350 disassembled waiting for a brand new oem trigger housing; so, I could not start trying the ZR about 'repeatability'.

By now, as I was also suspicious about that spring position.., all I have is a fantastic explanation about the way the ZR should work.

Please take a look at the answers to my 'comments' at this link.

http://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/a-high-speed-analysis-of-the-way-the-zr-mounts-work

If you buy the 'free floating' idea .., besides to consider the built in droop compensation effects to your rifle, be alert about the free height from the mount base surface and the rings' bottom (without precision, about "2+" mm in TOTAL); if the scope has more than this (below the vertical turret and the tube wall), its lower part will touch the mount base an it will behave as a 'seesaw' (you would have to shim both rings).

Luckily, I bought a Hawke 4x32 simple model that fitted easy.

As I have some legal restrictions (Brazil) to scopes "bigger" than 4x32, my ('POI shifting' endless nightmare) current hopes are in this "life vest" mount.

Mr. Tom Gaylord (B.B.) at Pyramyd Air / Airgun Academy has promised he will do the ZR review (deeper than he did on March 6), but he is a very busy guy, and we don't know when.

[SpringerForever]

I still don't like the idea of introducing a moving part into the equation. Just something else to fail. And I've had enuf aggravation chasing down scope issues that I'm not about to introduce another variable into the equation.

Good luck with the ZR mount & your 350.

RWS 350? The one in your signature? If it is, one of my brother's has got a T01 (yeah, it's old)  in .177 & it has had an old made in Japan Bushnell Elite 3200(?) 4-16(?)x40(?) mounted on it that is still going strong. He bought it new & I don't believe it's been used on anything else. It's mounted directly to the dovetail with 2pc rings. In other words no droop correction. Absolutely no issues with the scope. And talk about some nice glass! Very, very nice. So clear! And so forgiving of eye relief. Turned out the 350 had a broken spring so I replaced it for him with, I believe, a Vortek kit. Still, even with the broken spring the FPE was ~23 with its favorite pellet. I think it's at ~25 FPE with the new spring. Or at least it was. It seems that Vortek springs weaken over a relatively short time. Or is that considered break-in?

[mpbby]

Since brand new, April/2013, the 350 learning curve has about "17" k rounds.

Main springs' performance is still an area I'm confused..

About broken oem springs, Diana told me that "3-4" k rounds would be the "normal" lifespan expectation. According to the supplier's site (Schneider/Germany) it would be a 3.1 mm wire = 0.122".

The last oem springs had exactly the "weaken over a relatively short time" syndrome.  Just to pass the idea, starting about "21+" fpe and dropping to "15+" after "1-2" k rounds. They didn't break, just shrunk about 2-".

I'm about start trying a Vortek drop in spring with 0.128" wire.  Also with a top hat, although .. "another variable into the equation".

About scopes, and regarding 'POI shifting', Hawke's customer service has suggested 3 features = mono-tube + glass etched reticles + coil spring at the erector tube (instead the usual leaf spring).  If you search for 'coil spring' at their site there are some Endurance models that match.

[SpringerForever]

Found out the specs on my brother's made in Japan Bushnell scope on his 350: 5-15x50 AO Elite 3200. Just in case you or anyone is interested. If so,  try eBay.

Turns out I was mistaken about the RWS 350 .177 T01 having a broken spring. It's original spring is still going strong. It's his RWS 48 .177 T01 that had a broken spring. I'm pretty sure that my brother didn't have anywhere close to 3-4K rounds thru his 48 when I replaced the spring. No idea how many rounds before it broke because he never checked it. It wasn't until I pulled it apart for some general maintenance that we discovered the broken spring. Replaced with Vortek kit.

I was also wrong about the 350's FPE. Originally had it at ~23 FPE but it's actually closer to ~17 FPE with it's favorite pellet, the JSB Exact Heavy. Strangely enuf the 48 is actually more powerful, shooting it's favorite pellet, the RWS R10 at almost 19 FPE. Spring in the 350 is probably tired? Real tired. :-)

Good luck with the 350.

Thanks for the scope selection tips. AFAIK all the Hawke scopes I tried had all the features listed. Didn't make any difference tho. At least not with my Hatsan super magnums.