Ruger air magnum?

[StevenG]

......... You aint gonna make it a Diana RWS trigger .........

what are the differences between the real RWS 05 trigger and the "clone" trigger that prevent that ?

Made in Germany vs made in China.

I highly doubt the place they make it really matters. My understanding is the cutting of metal operates the same the world over.
QA might be different, heck the source material might be too, but there is nothing stopping anyone from making a high quality product anywhere.

Several factors and it all comes down to money skilled labor costs, quality machinery for fabrication costs money and the quarterly earnings reports cost the over paid fat cats their jobs if the corporate earning fall off  so it is all about $$$$$

Absolutely, but that applies any place on Earth. Has nothing to do with where or who.

[Sfttailrdr46]

  That is also correct but in China the corners are cut by utilizing poorly trained factory workers and inferior materials . I do not have an ax to grind but Will only add that working in the HVAC field I have dealt with poor quality of parts and electronic controls manufactured over there

[wormbobskey]

StevenG, I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. I worked in a machine shop for several years running CNC and NC boring mills. Our company tried to cut costs and bought Korean and Chinese made parts and ended up losing money because we had to re-machine just about everything they produced. 90% of time it wasn't the tolerances, it was the materials they used to make the parts. The cast trigger on the ruger has voids and sloppy machining. I could make a better trigger with plate aluminum and washers.

[brapshwing]

Try the T05 to know what the Umarex trigger aspires to be.  It's not the design, it's the execution. The German's tend to do it right and the Chinese tend to pump out cheap replicas.

[StevenG]

StevenG, I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. I worked in a machine shop for several years running CNC and NC boring mills. Our company tried to cut costs and bought Korean and Chinese made parts and ended up losing money because we had to re-machine just about everything they produced. 90% of time it wasn't the tolerances, it was the materials they used to make the parts. The cast trigger on the ruger has voids and sloppy machining. I could make a better trigger with plate aluminum and washers.

I don't think you understand what I am saying.

Your company bought cheap stuff and got cheap stuff. Where it was made had nothing to do with it. It is not like the chinese magically cannot produce a quality product. You just have to pay for it, which your company decided not to do. They wanted cheap, they got cheap.

If you paid the Chinese what you paid the Americans or the Germans you would get similar quality, that is all I am saying here.

Once upon a time people said the same stuff you are saying now about German and Japanese products. Those were at the time inferior, for the same reason. No one would pay them to produce a good product, everyone just wanted cheap.

[wormbobskey]

I understand what your saying. Unfortunately china has given itself a big black eye because everything that I have seen that they export is &^^&. The bad thing is that America has continued to ship manufacturing jobs overseas and allowed all this &^^& to sold under their company names. I imagine Bill Ruger is turning over in his grave because of some of the things they have put his name on that came from china.

[StevenG]

I understand what your saying. Unfortunately china has given itself a big black eye because everything that I have seen that they export is &^^&. The bad thing is that America has continued to ship manufacturing jobs overseas and allowed all this &^^& to sold under their company names. I imagine Bill Ruger is turning over in his grave because of some of the things they have put his name on that came from china.

Again, I remember folks saying that about Japan. A decade later, and you would have been a fool to buy any small car that was not Japanese.

While we have shed manufacturing jobs, few people realize we are still in fact the second largest country by value of products. Much of those jobs went to robots, not Chinese. Once Chinese labor prices rise, and they are already starting to, more jobs will go to machines.

America and her companies did not allow anything, they are the primary drivers of this. Ruger makes a fortune on selling these products. Kids buy them up and honestly this is a good thing. In constant dollars the price of these goods has simply plummeted. We are all richer for it. Which means those of us who want to buy something a bit fancier can.

Yes some folks lost their jobs, but the same thing happened when we switched from horses to cars and even more so when we brought computers into businesses. The alternative is much worse. It means those companies shut down when chinese competitors eat their lunch. Do you want ruger to sell outsourced products and locally made products or nothing at all?

TLDR; If you don't want a cheap product buy an expensive one. Lots of folks are glad to simply have the option to choose.

[D14Jeff]

quality American made products are still available , for a premium price . many of us (myself included) for one reason or another would rather put our money into a lesser but adequate for our needs product . some of us can't afford the very best or sometimes the very good . and some like to take a cubic zirconia and give it a little polishing to bring out it's sparkle .

[brapshwing]

I understand what your saying. Unfortunately china has given itself a big black eye because everything that I have seen that they export is &^^&. The bad thing is that America has continued to ship manufacturing jobs overseas and allowed all this &^^& to sold under their company names. I imagine Bill Ruger is turning over in his grave because of some of the things they have put his name on that came from china.

Again, I remember folks saying that about Japan. A decade later, and you would have been a fool to buy any small car that was not Japanese.

While we have shed manufacturing jobs, few people realize we are still in fact the second largest country by value of products.

Sorry I love all this banter and have to chime in.  The trigger is sub par because it's made in China.  You can wax eloquent about hypotheticals that they "could" make a better product.  But they dont and they are not on a trajectory to make better products.  Feedback from the markets are helpful so there may be incremental improvements over time.

Under no circumstances can you compare the Japanese quality of mfg in the 60's and 70's to today's Chinese mfg standards.  Japan was disparaged due to animosity following the WWII.  The Japanese are artisans, technicians, engineers while the Chinese are just grinding out cheap product with slave labor.  As an example of the anti-Japanese sentiments,  my buddy will not drink Japanese single malts to honor the hate his two grandfathers had for the Japanese following the war.  The American blood that was shed on the sands of Iwo Jima are the reason that Japan product was disparaged in the 60's adn 70's.  It had nothing to do with the fit and finish for their product at the time relative to worldwide standards.  They were on their game and their success is the result of high standards and great execution.

The US has the highest GDP of any country in the world 16.5 trillion, China second 9 trillion, Japan third 5 trillion, Germany forth 4 trillion.  So we are still the big kid on the block.

Parting thought-  the fracking and shale revolution that is going on in the US is giving us such a competitive advantage in mfg that you are going to see a renaissance of mfg in the US.  We are going to begin to make product on US soil because oil is so cheap that companies will be able to suffer the inconvenience of b.s. associated with labor laws and bogus class action attorneys who try to wreck our county for a buck.  The next 10 years is going to be a boon here.  Lastly, the stronger dollar will hurt us on an export basis but selling product intra-country will be all good.

The trigger is sub par because it's made in China.

[StevenG]

I have no interest in engaging in that kind of discussion, it is speculation bordering on unfair.

Any airgunner who thinks chinese products have not improved vastly over the last two decades is either blind or lying to himself.

[Sfttailrdr46]

Guys keep on topic and please keep it cordial  . If opinions become hostile  this thread will be locked we do not condone bashing of members , vendors , or manufacturers and we certainly will not tolerate racism. 

[56S]

Back on topic.  A good day with my RAM .22 yesterday.  After cleaning way too much lead from the bore I was rewarded with sub 1" groups at 25yds using Crosman 14.3 domes.  My spinners are taking a severe beating with this AG.

[brapshwing]

I love my Chinese AGs. No disrespect at all, you just cant compare the fit and finish of the Umarex or Ruger to the original design and execution by RWS.

I'm very grateful for the cheaper guns, it is my point of entry to the sport. If it weren't for the cheaper guns I may not have made it into the sport on the level I'm at now..

Having both the Chinese and the German, I have found that it's "easier" to shoot tight groups with the German made.  You can still get good groups with the Chinese springers, for me I just have to work a little harder to get the group.  May be the shooter not the gun...

[StevenG]

I love my Chinese AGs. No disrespect at all, you just cant compare the fit and finish of the Umarex or Ruger to the original design and execution by RWS.

I'm very grateful for the cheaper guns, it is my point of entry to the sport. If it weren't for the cheaper guns I may not have made it into the sport on the level I'm at now..

Having both the Chinese and the German, I have found that it's "easier" to shoot tight groups with the German made.  You can still get good groups with the Chinese springers, for me I just have to work a little harder to get the group.  May be the shooter not the gun...

How do you feel about the device you just typed that on?

If you want good groups easy you should probably get a PCP

[brapshwing]

StevenG, I just got a PCP.  But i'm never off a spring train man.

[Sfttailrdr46]

StevenG, I just got a PCP.  But i'm never off a spring train man.

The real beauty of shooting is that the springers force you to be deliberate with every shot. Sight picture , hold breathing trigger pull and follow through and above all relax. In the end they help to make you a better shooter. That's why I shoot both regularly and once or twice a week the MSP 392

[brapshwing]

StevenG, I just got a PCP.  But i'm never off a spring train man.

The real beauty of shooting is that the springers force you to be deliberate with every shot.

For sure Rider. And labor over many a shot we do. The other beauty is also the fact that you can break a barrel even if you run out of air and your pump is broken and the zombies are at your door! LOL