Vantage, needing warming up shots?

[N6CRV]

Hello, I have both the Vantage (Spring) and the Titan "Nitro" They both seem to need warming up shots. The Vantage is the worse in needing at least 10 shots. I can get is sighted in at 50ft and the next day it will be 1 to 2 " off  up down sideways does not make a difference. After 10+ shots it is right back to POA. Then it will be fine as long as I don't let it set for a couple hours. The Titan, most times only needs two shots to get in the mood. Is this normal or do I need to do or check something? Thanks for the help!!!

[LAalex]

It's normal in my experience.  My guns are all lubed with JM Moly and they need a good warmup.  I use cheapo pellets for the warm up and switch to the rifle's preferred pellets after.

Scotty

[N6CRV]

It's normal in my experience.  My guns are all lubed with JM Moly and they need a good warmup.  I use cheapo pellets for the warm up and switch to the rifle's preferred pellets after.

Scotty

Thanks Scotty, just the info I needed. I also used Moly for the lube and changed the barrel block bushings to brass. I will do the same use the pellets that it does not like to warm it up. Have a great week and keep shooting.

[avator]

Generally. I need the warm up more than the gun.

[jus Tom]

Wondering if the two rifles mentioned by N6CRV are box-stock original....or have been re-tuned? I noticed my gas piston NV used to shoot the same way (actually MUCH worse) until I cleaned it out and re-sealed it. I also use JM moly paste and now it is "first shot" predictable. That makes for an satisfying experience when you're using the gun mostly for pest eradication.

[N6CRV]

Wondering if the two rifles mentioned by N6CRV are box-stock original....or have been re-tuned? I noticed my gas piston NV used to shoot the same way (actually MUCH worse) until I cleaned it out and re-sealed it. I also use JM moly paste and now it is "first shot" predictable. That makes for an satisfying experience when you're using the gun mostly for pest eradication.

  I would have to say 75%+ stock. I have used Molly on the spring and anything else that moves. On the Titan I used Molly powder and dusted in the slot where the piston is. The plastic barrel block washers were replaced with brass and I mollyed them. Other then that stock. The Vantage would diesel a lot so thought I over lubed. I washed it out with mineral spirits and blew it out real good. Other then that and replacing the trigger and swapping the stocks they are stock. I did order two new seals from Crosman last week just to have on hand. Sounds like I might want to take apart and rebuild at least the Vantage. It is a pain that it shoots all over the place at the first. Like you said if I grabbed it and tried to hit something it would miss for sure or not be a kill shot.
  I do have another question. From what I have read once the rifle is cocked the barrel should stay wherever you put it. Well mine (both) will drop down right away. I just been blaming it on the brass washers and Molly. I have the block screw as tight as it will go and used Blue Loctite on it. Is there anything that I should do to tighten it up, it feels solid? Thanks for everyone's help. I always get good advice on my questions!   

[jus Tom]

Sounds to me that the "barrel droop" is the culprit. After cocking the gun, the barrel should lock snug to the breech. If that's not happening you need to figure out why,,, where's the movement and what's causing it?
I'm not reading anything about spring removal,, just lubing the moving parts you can see when taking the stock off....which means whatever lube is in the compression chamber could also be causing the poor accuracy or a bad seal will do it too.

I did the washer swap on two of my guns and was very meticulous about sizing the brass ID and OD as well as thickness and they both perform better than factory. I also replaced the seal in my NV which made a world of difference.
Lots of fellows on here that have been doing it a lot longer than I, hopefully some others can offer some advice too.

[mobilehomer]

It could be that the pivot tube that the bolt goes through is too long. If the bolt tightens up on that before the washers, it will not be right. I had one and swapped it for a shorter and it is fine now.

[N6CRV]

Well took the Vantage apart, all the way down. I thought there has to be a reason that it needs so long to warm up and at times still smokes. Got it apart without any trouble but when I went to take the piston out I thought I would have to help it some. Took the trigger group out, tilted the tube and the piston slid right out. There was so friction at all. The seal looks good, but have a new one coming so will replace. The spring ends were ruff but now like glass, went down to 3000 grit wet/dry paper. Also polished the Tophat and the part at the bottom where the spring rests on. The spring guide did have a couple scratch marks but got them just about all out. I would think that is not normal for the piston to come out that easy? I did smooth all the holes/slots from the stampings. Is there anything else I should do or look for? I will use a very light coat of Molly when I put back to together. Oh I did wash all the parts with Dawn dish soap and VERY hot water. The parts dried just from the heat of the water. Thanks for the help.

[56S]

I've had Crosman seals that fit that loose yet give extremely consistent velocity.  My test is to block the transfer port and push the piston in with a dowel rod.  A good seal will hold air regardless of friction.

[N6CRV]

I've had Crosman seals that fit that loose yet give extremely consistent velocity.  My test is to block the transfer port and push the piston in with a dowel rod.  A good seal will hold air regardless of friction.

Will try that as soon as new seal gets in and before I put it all back together. Thanks.

  I tried that using the old seal and it held really nice. I was surprised that it did being lose. The sides of the seal must expand as it is moving forward. I was almost temped to just use the old seal, but I will wait.