Working on a .30/.25 cal MSP/ACP, Info useful??

[airpuffhunter]

have you seen this?
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=39328

[Nomadic Pirate]

Buy yourself a Crossbow , LOL

I'm afraid but you're all over the place, those pumpers barely make enough power on small bores, you're .357 idea I would confidently say is a waste of time

As method of operation is the same, I assume that you do not think that PCP's are any good for large cal either?     That is what you are saying as operationaly an ACP Pumper is a PCP, it is just a matter of the correct chamber volume, pressure, and pump volume (the last to minimize the number of strokes to refill).

Also my compound bow is always with me when hunting, or wandering the property for any reason (as a defence against agressive wild animals, if ever needed).   It is faster to noch an arrow and let it to its target than it is to load a pellet .

It's nothing like a PCP that works of a 3000-4500 psi pressure with a reservoir of 300-500 cc ....you just never will get the power, matter of fact you already dropped your project from .357 to 25-30 making my point precisely,
there's just no 2 ways about it, if you want serious power PCP is the only way to go.

Regarding archery, I've killed several big Boars with my Bows,
 an arrow is and incredible efficient hunting tool and an extremely poor defensive weapon, I'm afraid you are seeing reality in a very distorted matter.

one more point, a repeter with a full magazine big bore I belive will be extremely faster to operate than the incredibly clumsy compound ,
heck when I shoot my bows with compounders I can shoot 5 arrows to their one

[farmerjoe99]

I really like the specs in .25
especially at 2200psi...how hard
would it be to pump it up to 1800-2200psi?
(is it feasible?)
and how many pumps are you expecting for 1200psi?
(hope I'm not bothering you with all the questions )
 God Bless
Hope it will all work out well for you
 Joseph

(wish I could help you but this is way above my head )

[DavidS]

How much would they cost? 

I will tell you after I make the third one.   That will let me know the exact cost in materials, and time, and give me time to negotiate with a vendor.

Assuming the vendor wishes to add a 25% markup for there proffit, and assuming that my current guess on matterials is accurate and that it will take about 2 hours of work per unit once I have every thing setup for production, and taking into consideration maintainence costs for equipment, including the solar pannels and wiring for electricty I would guess that I would put a retail price of about $60 each.  That is $5.00 per hour for my time, $22.00 in materials, $6.00 towards maintance, and $10.00 reserved for expansion, making $48.00 per unit, add 25% for the vendor and you have $60.

Though it will likely be a bit less as I am over estimating on materials by a lot.   Also it will likely take less time once I set up my tooling for the purpose of production.    I have no interest in recovering the development costs, that will happen naturaly as proffit is made.  Also I will set asside a small portion of my proffit to use to develop the next generation so no loss.   Not to mention that the initial development is more fun than work anyway.

[Matt15]

How much would they cost? 

I will tell you after I make the third one.   That will let me know the exact cost in materials, and time, and give me time to negotiate with a vendor.

Assuming the vendor wishes to add a 25% markup for there proffit, and assuming that my current guess on matterials is accurate and that it will take about 2 hours of work per unit once I have every thing setup for production, and taking into consideration maintainence costs for equipment, including the solar pannels and wiring for electricty I would guess that I would put a retail price of about $60 each.  That is $5.00 per hour for my time, $22.00 in materials, $6.00 towards maintance, and $10.00 reserved for expansion, making $48.00 per unit, add 25% for the vendor and you have $60.

Though it will likely be a bit less as I am over estimating on materials by a lot.   Also it will likely take less time once I set up my tooling for the purpose of production.    I have no interest in recovering the development costs, that will happen naturaly as proffit is made.  Also I will set asside a small portion of my proffit to use to develop the next generation so no loss.   Not to mention that the initial development is more fun than work anyway.

So it would be around $60 for one?

[DavidS]

Buy yourself a Crossbow , LOL

I'm afraid but you're all over the place, those pumpers barely make enough power on small bores, you're .357 idea I would confidently say is a waste of time

As method of operation is the same, I assume that you do not think that PCP's are any good for large cal either?     That is what you are saying as operationaly an ACP Pumper is a PCP, it is just a matter of the correct chamber volume, pressure, and pump volume (the last to minimize the number of strokes to refill).

Also my compound bow is always with me when hunting, or wandering the property for any reason (as a defence against agressive wild animals, if ever needed).   It is faster to noch an arrow and let it to its target than it is to load a pellet .

It's nothing like a PCP that works of a 3000-4500 psi pressure with a reservoir of 300-500 cc ....you just never will get the power, matter of fact you already dropped your project from .357 to 25-30 making my point precisely,

It is more like a PCP with a 1200 to 1400PSI chamber.   And it is not intended to be a great number of shots.

Yes I dropped the plan down to .30 and .25 after I did all of the math.    I admit that I should have done the math before the initial post, so be it.

there's just no 2 ways about it, if you want serious power PCP is the only way to go.

PCP and ACP are the same thing, an ACP just has the pump built in.   In this case I am going with a very small reserviour though an equilivent ACP can be made with a much larger resiviour.   In fact once I sell a few in a year to 18 months from now I intend to add an option for a larger resiviour.   I will also be taking the time to play with the idea of a 2500 PCI version, though only after the original version is selling.

Also not all PCP's have use 3000PSI plus.  Many run between 2000 and 3000, a few run between 1200 and 1800 (like what I am talking about).

Regarding archery, I've killed several big Boars with my Bows,
 an arrow is and incredible efficient hunting tool and an extremely poor defensive weapon, I'm afraid you are seeing reality in a very distorted matter.

How so?  I agree with the use of a compound bow for defence and large game.   I use my bow for anything large also.   Most of my hunting is small stuff, as that is what we can eat with out having a bunch to store.

Big game is only an issue for self defence and that is the reason for my Compound bow.

one more point, a repeter with a full magazine big bore I belive will be extremely faster to operate than the incredibly clumsy compound ,
heck when I shoot my bows with compounders I can shoot 5 arrows to their one

I believe that it took me years of daily training to learn to shoot a compound bow fast.   Now I can get about three arows on targets in about 2 seconds then it takes a second to two to grab three more arrows from the quiver.

As to the big bore with a mag I can not afford anything like that, and with PCP there is issue of pump.   This is the initial reason for making my own as an ACP, I can design my own mag with out spending a fortune, and I already have the tools (lathe, drillpress, mill, and sin table [old style tool for making a rifling bar (tool to cut rifling)]).

An issue for me is that I have brittle bones do to a genitic dissorder that I can not spell.   This is also what led to the injuries that put me in a chair.   Because of this I can not fire a big bore Black powder or cartridge rifle or pistol, though using friends PCP's I have found that big bore AirRifles are something I can handle with out injury.

[DavidS]

How much would they cost? 

I will tell you after I make the third one.   That will let me know the exact cost in materials, and time, and give me time to negotiate with a vendor.

Assuming the vendor wishes to add a 25% markup for there proffit, and assuming that my current guess on matterials is accurate and that it will take about 2 hours of work per unit once I have every thing setup for production, and taking into consideration maintainence costs for equipment, including the solar pannels and wiring for electricty I would guess that I would put a retail price of about $60 each.  That is $5.00 per hour for my time, $22.00 in materials, $6.00 towards maintance, and $10.00 reserved for expansion, making $48.00 per unit, add 25% for the vendor and you have $60.

Though it will likely be a bit less as I am over estimating on materials by a lot.   Also it will likely take less time once I set up my tooling for the purpose of production.    I have no interest in recovering the development costs, that will happen naturaly as proffit is made.  Also I will set asside a small portion of my proffit to use to develop the next generation so no loss.   Not to mention that the initial development is more fun than work anyway.

So it would be around $60 for one?

That is a reasonable estimate, though subject to change.    I am not greedy so I would not over charge for nothing.   Though that is assuming that once I get every thing setup to streamline production it will only take about two hours to make one.   If it takes a bit longer per unit then add $5.00 per hour.

[Matt15]

As to the big bore with a mag I can not afford anything like that, and with PCP there is issue of pump.   This is the initial reason for making my own as an ACP, I can design my own mag with out spending a fortune, and I already have the tools (lathe, drillpress, mill, and sin table [old style tool for making a rifling bar (tool to cut rifling)]).
[/quote]

I like msp and ACP in that you do not have to worry about a expensive pump. The pump is built in.

[DavidS]

have you seen this?
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=39328

I had not previously seen that.  Thank you, I have some reading to do .