The lead panic

[chuckinohio]

  Lead is the most recycled metal being used in American industry, 95% of all lead used in current US production comes from recycling sources, while primary lead, or lead that is mined comprises only 5% of the lead consumed in the US.

  Sierra bullets is located only 3 hours from the Doe Run lead processing facility that is being closed down, and guess what???
  Sierra says that it wont affect them at all, they never have used lead from that source.

  http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/sierra-responds-how-will-the-closure-of-the-lead-smelting-plant-affect-sierra-bullets/

  Pay attention to the part where they say that there are MANY more primary lead sources and processors around the world. Missouri isn't the only lead deposit on the planet folks.

  There is no lead shortage, and there will be no lead shortage in the foreseeable future.

  Feel free to discuss, debunk, or conjure up wild speculations within forum rules!! 

[geewhiz380]

Im from nyc and im not to far from recycling sites perhaps bout 40 to 50 shops metals of all kinds ,i have spoken to owners and was told that will never happen and that was months ago ,if anything prices will rise like anything else ......jorge

[Bob H.]

Chuck,
Got my attention too.  I've been lead down the path too many times.  There is a little voice that says "Buy what you need while you can still get it."  Lead will get scarce and of course expensive.  Because of the lead hazards, the day will come when it is not legal to own lead.  Relax our elected officials have our best interests at heart, they don't want us to hurt ourselves.

BobH.

[only1harry]

I am sorry but saying sit back and do nothing, "they just want our best interests and nothing will happen to the lead sources" is not something I am comfortable with.

I am not sure there is a way to discuss this subject without getting political, but I will try to summarize the ways federal and state governments are planning to promote gun control and make it much harder for people to own guns.  They are indeed attacking ammunition since gun control laws are much harder to pass in many states.  They plan on making lead bullets (and/or pellets) illegal due to the "health risks" they pose (as they did in CA already), and the EPA will be proposing even tougher laws to put pressure on lead smelting and processing factories to spend enormous amount of $ to upgrade their facilities, or close their doors in order to drive up the price of lead which will be mostly imported after they have done all they can to make domestic production and access to lead ammunition very difficult and expensive.  Then they will pass laws to make importing lead ammo unlawful. 

Just talk to your representatives, be informed and get involved.  They don't plan on stopping with the closing of 1 factory.  That is just the beginning and not even making a dent yet.  They will not do all this overnight.  It will be a slow and gradual process which may take a decade or more.  They have a long-term plan.  They always do.  Quomo in NY did not come up with the SAFE Act overnight.  He and many before him had been working on that for years.  They were just waiting for the right moment (Newtown) to pass it into law behind closed doors and without public knowledge or hearings - and they were very successful.  Everyone was caught off guard.  A good portion of this new legislation was to restrict access to Ammunition. That is what the "A" in SAFE stands for.

I am also not convinced that 95% of the lead comes from recycling.  How much lead is in your house or appliances? In commercial buildings?  Zero as far as I know.  There are laws against using lead in the manufacturing of most everything except batteries and some glass or crystal and very few other things.  Noone has lead pipes in their house any longer.  Don't think the other side doesn't use propaganda either.  They are very good at it.  The University of Stamford says 50% of the lead used today comes from recycling.  I would think some of those who are pro-gun control would say 90% comes from recycling(?).

Harry

[Bicycleman]

Whether or not there IS a shortage is secondary.  The industry price increases will feed the "panic" syndrome which will mean more price increases, which means more panic, which means etc. 

A similar thing happens every time we have a storm down here.  The price at the pump starts going up, prices for plywood spike, duct tape becomes scarce, bottled water disappears from the shelves at inflated prices.  I am not saying it is right or wrong, only that it is what is.  I try not to become a victim.

Right now, I have (what I consider) a lifetime supply of shotgun shells, .22 LR ammo, and pellets for hunting.   

[Sfttailrdr46]

  Fortunately for me I'm on the down hill side of the ageing process and am truly glad that I will be looking up at the roots before we have lost all of our rights

[chuckinohio]

  I reread and rechecked my facts after Harry's rebuttal.

  My figure was derived from the fact that 95% of all lead acid batteries in the US are recycled for their lead content, NOT 95% of all lead used in the US comes from recycling.
  I some how transposed words and figures in my noggin whilst posting, and posted an erroneous figure. I apologize to the forum for that mistake............ 
  Good call Harry, you made me go back and double check!! 

  I will offer this-
 

Roughly 80 percent of “lead used in the United States secondary market (which is what most ammunition manufacturers use) comes from recycled batteries and another 7 percent to 9 percent of lead on the market comes from other scrap sources,” Owens reported, citing Daniel Hill, Operations Manager at Mayco Industries. “Only 10 percent of the lead in the U.S. comes from mining.”

  There are thoughts that the lead market will see an increase in prices due not to ammunition demand, but due to the demand for more and more batteries for use in Hybrid and electrically powered vehicles.

  The actual regulation that was cited for the closing of the Doe Run facility, originated in 2008, before the current Gov. was in place by the way, and they have been battling the EPA since 2003 over emissions.

[Bicycleman]

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=51221.msg486438#msg486438

Harry, you will probably remember this thread.  Though it is not "LEAD", it does address the possibilities of government regulations taking some of the rights we have had since our ancestors came here.  Ladies and Gentlemen, Robert stated that we must not let down our guard.  Rights have been taken in other countries (Canada) and some here in the US too.

Again, thank you for reading me.

[only1harry]

I remember it well Mike and I am glad you posted that back in August.

The "panic" theory you posted here is also very true.  Just look at what happened this entire year with the panic buying causing a massive shortage that has just barely begun to improve.  And the prices did not even go up before it started.  The prices were normal but now they are much higher because of the panic induced ammo shortage.  All it took was the current administration's attempt (actually talking about it before they even proposed it) to try to pass new gun control laws which fueled the biggest panic buying and ammo shortage our country has ever seen.  Not only panic ammo buying but panic gun buying.  On top of the millions of guns existing gun owners purchased, they estimate that there were at least 10 million 1st time gun owners in the first 9 months of 2013, a record number.  Most states and big box stores reported selling as many guns in 2013 as 2011 and 2012 combined.  I actually know at least 10 people that purchased a gun for the first time this year, and these are not 18-21 year olds, but mostly middle aged or older.  There was also a record # of women buying guns for the first time this year.  I was watching one of my local TV stations ago where they were interviewing women applying for a handgun permit or buying a gun for the first time.  The common answer was that they suddenly realized how the government was trying to take away more of our rights.  Surprisingly some of the women said they were buying a gun for the first time just to make a statement, and that they would have never considered getting one if it weren't for our privacy rights taken away and all the hypocricy about how gun control reduces crime.  Others said they were scared that only criminals would have guns.  It was actually very interesting to watch and towards the end the female journalist interviewing them said "now I am thinking about getting a gun too".

Anyway I think it is our duty as american citizens and gun owners to be vigilant and get involved.  Supporting the NRA and other similar organizations will only benefit us and future generations.

Harry