daisy 880 vs 760 vs 2100

[myNPS]

If you clean it use the weedeater cord and patch method and thread it in through the reciever.  I wouldn't roll the dice on using a bore brush with one of these.  I lube mine with non-detergent 30 wt oil.  None of my .177 ammo is lubed.  Did you recently switch pellets, or open a new tin of your favorites?  Sometimes you get a bad tin, or a tin that is sized slightly different from a old or brand new die and the barrel doesn't shoot them as well

I think this site ate my reply.

I never use a bore brush on AG's.  How much oil?  A Drop on a patch?

My weedeater line is too fat to fit doubled over -- big weeds here in IL.  Melting that stuff is a mess for me!  I heard that twisted flyline will double over & form a 'cleaning line'.  Need some flyline now. 

You got me -- I did switch pellets.  I need to do more of a real test; but I was able to put a wadcutter into the same hole as a pointed pellet so I didn't do a better test earlier on.

I will be using Simple Green as barrel cleaner.

Thom

[Bryan Heimann]

told ya... forget the BBs... shoot only pellets as their inherent accuracy makes them the most logical choice. remember that these are airguns, and they do not kill by massive force, but by placing well chosen shots into vital areas.

X2.  This little test was an eye opener.  I have been wanting to find something accurate with bb's that has the power for some close range hunting.  It would be ultra economical and easy to load.  But when you have to pump the gun ten times to kill, you really only have one chance at a shot anyway.  And unless you are ten feet away or less, you are probably going to miss with a BB gun that has the power to take a rabbit humanely.  Plus a bb has such an aweful BC that no matter how accurate the gun is, or how much velocity you can achieve, passed about 20 yards they are as useless as gamo PBA.  At ten yards, the bb's from the 880 ricochet off plywood about half the time, while at the muzzle they bury into it so far you can barely seen them shining.  Lead pellets are the only viable option for hunting with a .177 airgun

[lillysdad621]

About the cleaning... most air rifles need very little cleaning (every 2500/ shoots) as there is no leading of the barrel. More than anything it will be corrosion that you would be removing. Use a soft rod (or wooden rod) pushing patches soaked in Goo gone. then  push dry ones till they come out clean and dry. On pumpers (not on springers) you may pump it a couple of times, open the breach and drop a drop of pellgun oil, or if not available, a drop of ATF (automatic transmission fluid, the ford stuff... red and all...) then shoot it. it will atomize the drop coating the inside of the barrel.

About the p17: great single pump pistol, awesome trigger and very accurate, as well as quiet and consistent (hobbies at 410 fps). The fact that you are compressing by closing the top might be ackward at first, but once you are used to it it easy to pump. The loading, not much room... if your fingers are as thick as sausages, then skip it.

About the 822: The 822 is the .22 version of the 880. Plastic furniture and a metal receiver. The 22sg is the wooden furnished model. They are both the same lenght, lenght of pull and thickness... the wood does not have the chequering, and the comb is lower as it does not have the pronounced montecarlo cheek piece. As per ergonomics, it is a lot more comfortable than the 880. Power wise it will shoot Hobbies .22 11.9 gr. at 540 fps on 10 pumps. and 507 fps avg with the crosman premiers. That is 7.71 fpe with the hobbies and 8.2 fpe with the crosman premiers, both pretty respectable numbers for small game. The difference is on the impact... the .22 will decisevely put down a rabbit, even with a "less than perfect" shot. the .177 better be perfect, or you are just wounding them... Going back on the report done on the 880, it shot 650 with 10.3 AT 12 PUMPS!!!. very much not recommended... I am sure that it would be in the mid 8s in FPE at 10 pumps... I have not tested my 22sg at 12 pumps (heck, i dont even like pumping it more than 8 times...) But I imaging that i would not get that much more power while stressing the internals too much.

[myNPS]

told ya... forget the BBs... shoot only pellets as their inherent accuracy makes them the most logical choice. remember that these are airguns, and they do not kill by massive force, but by placing well chosen shots into vital areas.

X2.  This little test was an eye opener.  I have been wanting to find something accurate with bb's that has the power for some close range hunting.  It would be ultra economical and easy to load.  But when you have to pump the gun ten times to kill, you really only have one chance at a shot anyway.  And unless you are ten feet away or less, you are probably going to miss with a BB gun that has the power to take a rabbit humanely.  Plus a bb has such an aweful BC that no matter how accurate the gun is, or how much velocity you can achieve, passed about 20 yards they are as useless as gamo PBA.  At ten yards, the bb's from the 880 ricochet off plywood about half the time, while at the muzzle they bury into it so far you can barely seen them shining.  Lead pellets are the only viable option for hunting with a .177 airgun

I have an answer for the query here.  I use a Crosman 1077 for "Micing" -- yes, I  just made that word up.  Don't get funny ideas about my house, but somehow , almost every fall, I'll get one or two that find their way in.  The 1077 has plenty of power for them, and multiple shots too.  I also have the Crosman 357 and the 1008/1088 -- all are CO2 repeaters.  I really like my 357 with a red-dot sight -- it can be shot single-action too which is a bit unique for this class of repeater AG.  Pistols are not perhaps for squirrels, but I got these AGs for mice.  (I can't get to Africa for Big Game hunting; so I've scaled down my hunting just a bit).  Plus I don't have to leave the house!  Oh, and I've also used these AG's on crickets that you can see&hear but not reach -- Heh, heh, heh.

I do not have a chrono, but CCS has told me that they think the 1077 would be adequate for squirrels.  Right now, with my 880 accuracy hiccup, my 1077 pounds it with smaller groups.
Thom

[lillysdad621]

unfortunately i do not think that the 1077 is adequate for squirrels... mice yes, but at mid 500s with light weight pellets i think mice at relatively short distances can be taken seriously (and that is allowing time between shots for the barrel and chamber to reach room temperature as to not drop your velocity). Or even small birds, it would be ok. Squirrels and rabbits might be able at really close ranges (under 10 yards). I use a rifle even slower for starling eradication or pest birds inside big box warehouses. For that kind of work accuracy is all you have and being able to headshot the pest becomes very important. For that I use a daisy Powerline 953 target rifle, with a relatively light 3-9x32AO scope. Zeroed at 15 yards it will put pellets inside other pellet holes with JSB lights at around 510 fps. Now that i have gotten a bit nicer collection the job has been passed down to my FWB 300S. that one will do the same out to 30 yards, and tuned it shoots 8.4 jsb pellets at 660 fps. recoilless, it makes easy targets out of mice and pest birds. it will also take out a squirrel at 25 yards any day of the week. But the 953 has been with me a long time, so i keep it anyway to play mini sniping and such. If you do not own a 10M target gun you do not know what you are missing...
As per the pistols doing the work... yes they can. but you must practice a lot to be able to reach the accuracy necessary. The 357 is my favorite as it will shoot 7.9 gr pellets at about 425 fps... mount a small 2x20 or a red dot and you got yourself a "rat tunnel extraordinare". They are just a bit on the "loudish " side... but it will give you 4 clips at consistent velocity.

[VAFarmer]

If we are talking OLDER guns.........I prefer the 880.

Newer production, would probably give the nod to the 2100.

BBs are what they are.  My experience with anything round is that it likes to be shot from a smoothbore.   If its the only think you have, you can make it work.    I remember making 20 yd open shots on birds, frogs, etc........most stuff with relatively thin skin.

As with much more expensive and refined guns, these cheap pumpers can be improved, as previously noted.   they can be turned into good reliable go-to guns, and should be able to get to 10 ftlbs with the right pellets.

They are FINE guns if you only want to spend 70 or so bucks total to put a little elbow grease and time into. 

My old 880 got me thru adolescence, and taught me some life lessons.   I spent more time with that single tool than any other over a period of my life I would guess, maybe my leatherman trumps it.   Spent many a day with it beside me.   When I think Daisy, I dont think Red Ryder, I think 880.

God bless,

Farmer

[lillysdad621]

I feel the same about my 766. I look that rifle over, and i remember every scuff and how it got there. Remember my first "furry" kill... the only animal that i have taken that has gone to waste because I wasn't prepared for the experience of field dressing it, and was too afraid to loose my rifle if my dad realized i had shot game with it... I am telling you, nothing in my life felt like the awe I experienced when i slid that rifle out of its box for the first time. i was a small 10 year old boy, and it might as well be a Remington 700 in .308. I could have taken on the world with that gun... Is good to have memories like that Farmer... many kids today will never know what it feels like to receive all that responsibility, and the bond of trust our fathers and mothers reaffirm when you get your first air rifle...

[myNPS]

If we are talking OLDER guns.........I prefer the 880.
Newer production, would probably give the nod to the 2100.
God bless,

Farmer

Not sure how you have arrived at the 2100 is better than 880.  Not from my & others' experience -- I think that discussion is earlier in this thread.  I bought both 880 & 2100 about a month ago.  The 2100 was soooooo bad I had to return it -- but my experience was echoed by others.  Crosman told me to LOOSEN 2 of the receiver screws to "solve" the difficult cocking problem!  How can you do that with a scope mounted, I asked -- they replied that the 2100 should not be used with a scope.  UGH!  880 is the better gun, IMHO.

Thom

[myNPS]

unfortunately i do not think that the 1077 is adequate for squirrels...

I would tend to agree with you -- as I bought the gun for mice and not squirrels -- but I was very surprised when Crosman told me that 1077 was ok for them.

Definitely agree regarding the 357.  I think of the lower power guns I own, it is (was! see below) my favorite.  I just recently broke it!  I put in a new CO2 cart and it would NOT make the pffft sound.  So, I did a bad thing.  I got out my pliers and "tightened" the CO2 screw!  I definitely had a bad, new Crosman CO@ cart!  After that incident, when I put a CO2 cartridge in it, it immediately blows out all the CO2 at the CO2-catridge/gun connection.  Any good ideas what parts I need to replace?

[lillysdad621]

the 880 is easier to use... yes. the 2100/766/am77 IS a better rifle. That you had a bad experience with yours... I have never sent one back, our customers have never returned one...
The cocking handle loosens up with use, and yes it gets easier. I have never seen one fail. and they are quite modifiable. Our gunsmith modded his with a LDC and a flat top setup. His rifle was strong enough to shoot raccoons with. It shot 10.5 gr at 740 fps with 25 pumps. He was obsessed with the 2100. out of the box, the 880 is a sweetie. But the 2100 will take some beatings and still come back for more.

[Bryan Heimann]

A properly functioning 1077 will work on squirrels.  Especially with the 10.5 grain cpum.  But they are not all accurate enough, and some of them don't make the power that they are supposed to make.  It should shoot 600+ with crosman pointed.

[myNPS]

the 880 is easier to use... yes. the 2100/766/am77 IS a better rifle. That you had a bad experience with yours... I have never sent one back, our customers have never returned one...
The cocking handle loosens up with use, and yes it gets easier. I have never seen one fail. and they are quite modifiable. Our gunsmith modded his with a LDC and a flat top setup. His rifle was strong enough to shoot raccoons with. It shot 10.5 gr at 740 fps with 25 pumps. He was obsessed with the 2100. out of the box, the 880 is a sweetie. But the 2100 will take some beatings and still come back for more.

I appreciate that -- along with a many positive reviews I have read on the 2100.  But neither you nor your gunsmith was  stuck with the sample of that gun I had.  Out of the box I could NOT cock the gun pulling as hard as I could with both thumbs.  My gun needed a short piece of 2x4 in order to cock it.  All I can say is if you start where my gun did -- you have 100x more patience than I'll ever have.  I won't be trying another 2100 anytime soon -- not while the 880 is around!  I cannot fathom how such a sample ever made through any sort of test before leaving the factory.  It's deplorable.  I have heard identical comments from others -- they have had the SAME experiences I had.  All I can pull out of all I have read is that something happened in the production of the 2100 --apparently they USED TO BE much better -- I cannot imagine your 'smith friend putting up with such pathetic performance initially and trying to make it better -- what would be the point?  Junk is junk.

Thom

[lillysdad621]

remember... junk is all subjective... when i was a child my 766 was the hunting rifle i always dreamt of... but now, next to my tuned HW80 FT gun, it IS junk. But is MY junk, from my childhood, and the HW is got a lot of catching up to do to displace the 766 in my heart. Mike, the gunsmith has owned his also from childhood, and a rough one at that. Not to spill his guts here, but it was used for more than play, and by someone a lot younger than we are now... it pested, it played, it fed him... he now owns a lot of nice guns. he is know for his .25 cal marauder tunes, which produce 58+ fpe rifle... so he is got the toys. But the time he puts on that old 2100 is sacred, and the faith he has on that gun is admirable. Why else would you try to make a raccoon hunter out of that gun? well, maybe he had a raccoon issue and realize that the only option he had was not enough... but he did not give up, and now has the knowhow to do what the 2100 needs done to push enough power to do that kind of hunting... I do not question why he does it, but i am impressed that the rifle takes on all that he does and still manages to stay together. I am sorry your experience was not a pleasant one. But decades of happy 2100 owners can't be wrong... and at least they are still made here, unlike the 880 that is now made in china.

[Bryan Heimann]

I thought the 2100 was made in china, save for the AM77 which got the made in usa stamp... But still got a lot of outsourced parts...

[lillysdad621]

Multi Pack Indicator:    No
Battery Type:    Does Not Contain a Battery
Model No.:   2100B
Shipping Weight (in pounds):    4.5
Product in Inches (L x W x H):    38.875 x 1.75 x 6.2
Assembled in Country of Origin:   USA
Origin of Components:   USA


From the specification sheet.

[lillysdad621]

And the AM77 is so pretty... i wish i could find one... some left over box at walmart or dick's...

[myNPS]

remember... junk is all subjective... But decades of happy 2100 owners can't be wrong... and at least they are still made here, unlike the 880 that is now made in china.

All so true.  If I had even the faintest hint of a useful gun in my 2100, I think I would have been motivated to get into it and make it better.  But I'm not spending my valuable time to turn junk into a maybe-passable gun.  My 880 worked beautifully out-of-the box.  There was not a hint of any possibility of comparing the two guns.  I only liked one thing on the 2100:  Pellet loading.

Yes, hoards of positive 2100 reviews CAN be wrong -- IF something changed in how the guns are manufactured!  I'd guarantee that 95 out of 100 2100's in the same condition mine was in would be returned -- probably heading for the scrap pile.

I think my 2100 said made in china.

[Bryan Heimann]

I wonder if the current production run is being built in the U.S.?  Last I hear the current production run of benji pumpers are being built here.  If the 2100 is getting built here again i will be all over it

[VAFarmer]

I have shot a newer production AM77 which I thought was the 2100...........that is what Im basing this opinion from.

My old 880 is the standard that I judge the new ones on, which is probably not fair.   I just hate that they gave it a resin frame and pump arm.   I still love the ergonomics.

Keep in mind also, that I mention they ALL need work.   Just what you are gonna get for 40-50 bucks.

Your mileage is gonna vary, as is your experience.   I agree that there can also be "bad runs" of stuff.   I bought a Crosman phantom from walmart once that went STRAIGHT back, it was so bad, but those are usually decent guns.   No one should be mad at anyone for choosing Crosman over Daisy, or vice versa. Im just happy for you if you are getting good groups and good power at the distance you need it.   Regardless.

A Daisy 953 will shoot circles around both of those models, old or new.   

the 880 and the 2100, heck even the lowly 760 are fine guns for young shooters to start with, or pull only-gun duty on a farm.   They certainly need some polishing, but all are good.

We just PREFER what we prefer.

Lilysdad......yep.   My kids have bb guns right now.  My oldest at 16 has little interest in these or anything that shoots.   My 8 n 6 yr old are both heavy into shooting anything that I will let them.   Both are learning proper gun handling right now, and the mechanics of shooting, with guns that have only coke can accuracy at 15-20 yds.   But they will soon get thier own guns.   Will probably try to locate a couple good shape old 880's for them, or maybe some newer ones will be fine too.
They MUST be taught first, and then trusted to go out on thier own with them.   BIG and SCARY thoughts, even though you know you trained them right.
KEEEEEEP that old 766, even if you have to get rid of every other gun.   It is a part of you, just like your first pocket knife.   that 766 has seen you change clothes, personalities,loved ones, etc........  dont idolize it of course, but it reminds you of the best times of your life, and some times where you were scared out of your wits at the same time.
My 880 drives my wife crazy, cause it currently needs repar, and the bore is almost smooth from all the bbs shot thru it.   But it stays.

God bless,

Farmer