Filling Station Woes - by I am Noob

[ShootingBlind]

Hi All,

I'm having some difficulties filling my new AAs500.  First, the fill adaptor didn't want to go on over the o-rings.  Fixed with a tiny bit of silicon scuba lube on the o-rings and that worked fine.

Next issue:  I have three steel HP scuba tanks.  2 x 105 CF @3500 psi, and 1 x 80 CF @ 3500 psi. 

And I bought the expensive fill stuff from JB in CA.  Nice stuff.  But my problem is that when I screw in the DIN male on the fill station stuff, it doesn't seem to be looong enough (yeah, I know the joke, so just assume I'm laughing now!) and when I crack the tank valve air bleeds out the hole used to let water out of the setup when diving. Or I should say, when out of the water and taking the scuba regulator off to fill the tank it prevents water from coming in.   So HP air just squirts out that hole.  I remember some time ago when diving I've had an issue with that and don't recall what the fix was. 

Any ideas for that one?

Second and bigger problem right now....I hooked up to the 105s, OK one of em, and i got a good seal at the tank valve setup.
I crack the tank valve and air squirts out between the male and female quick connector fittings (foster fill stuff). 

Likely I should get more detailed here.  The JB fill setup comes with a female foster fill connected to the fill whip.  (why is it called a whip?  oh, yeah, do something wrong and it will WHIP).  There is no female BSS connector that I could simple screw the AA fill adaptor into.  I had to purchase a Pyramyd Air BSS female to male foster fill connector that I had to screw together, which I did, using teflon tape, etc.

So if I had a bunch of different PCPs and needed different fill devices, I could quick connect them to the fill whip by having each one with its own male to BSS female thread quick connect.

I'm sure I've done something pretty dumb, but I would appreciate any help. 

I want to keep shooting my AA gun. 

Thanks, Rob

[cloverleaf]

Sorry, I can't help much with the quick fill setup.. but the DIN issue sounds like you have a 300bar female DIN outlet on the bottle and only the (shorter) 232bar male fitting on your charging setup.

The two main options are to a) buy a charging setup with a longer male section, or b) make or buy a spacer (with appropriate seal) to go inside the female section on the bottle and allow the shorter male section to seal.

I took the latter route with the filler adaptor for my Steyr pistol - using a brass spacer supplied by Steyr UK to get a decent seal.

Here's a link to the sort of thing you require

[TimmyMac1]

Hi All,

I'm having some difficulties filling my new AAs500.  First, the fill adaptor didn't want to go on over the o-rings.  Fixed with a tiny bit of silicon scuba lube on the o-rings and that worked fine.

Next issue:  I have three steel HP scuba tanks.  2 x 105 CF @3500 psi, and 1 x 80 CF @ 3500 psi. 

And I bought the expensive fill stuff from JB in CA.  Nice stuff.  But my problem is that when I screw in the DIN male on the fill station stuff, it doesn't seem to be looong enough (yeah, I know the joke, so just assume I'm laughing now!) and when I crack the tank valve air bleeds out the hole used to let water out of the setup when diving. Or I should say, when out of the water and taking the scuba regulator off to fill the tank it prevents water from coming in.   So HP air just squirts out that hole.  I remember some time ago when diving I've had an issue with that and don't recall what the fix was. 

Any ideas for that one?

Second and bigger problem right now....I hooked up to the 105s, OK one of em, and i got a good seal at the tank valve setup.
I crack the tank valve and air squirts out between the male and female quick connector fittings (foster fill stuff). 

Likely I should get more detailed here.  The JB fill setup comes with a female foster fill connected to the fill whip.  (why is it called a whip?  oh, yeah, do something wrong and it will WHIP).  There is no female BSS connector that I could simple screw the AA fill adaptor into.  I had to purchase a Pyramyd Air BSS female to male foster fill connector that I had to screw together, which I did, using teflon tape, etc.

So if I had a bunch of different PCPs and needed different fill devices, I could quick connect them to the fill whip by having each one with its own male to BSS female thread quick connect.

I'm sure I've done something pretty dumb, but I would appreciate any help. 

I want to keep shooting my AA gun. 

Thanks, Rob

Bob,
Pretty simple really. You got yourself a din 300 adapter and your trying to screw it into a Din 200 valve or vice versa. Look at the end of the adapter going in the tank. If it has more threads than the tanks valve and a step on the end that blocks it from seating in a Din 200 valve it is the Din 300 adapter(most likely) (the protrusion doesn't conform to the bottom of the hole so the oring never gets close enough to the sealing surface to make contact unless the step on the end is machined off).
If it is a 200 Din in a 300 hole the adapter isn't long enough (not enough threads) to reach the bottom of the hole.
On the Quick Connects all you have to do to blow a #10 oring out of a Foster Female is fail to get the collar snapped on one time and when the two QC's blow apart the oring will get spit out. Invariably the #10 Buna 70 durometer oring is either damaged or gone.
NEVER use Teflon Tape on Straight BSP threads. They do NOT seal at the threads and you will just feed your system tape. Teflon TAPE IS only FOR TAPERED NPT THREADS. Tape for tapered NPT. Dowty or oring seals for BSP if it doesn't seal on a metal to metal flare.
1/8" NPT is 27 Threads Per Inch (TPI). BSP is 28 TPI. They will often screw together but they will not seal or be a proper thread engagement no matter how tight or how much tape. You must use a BSP to Foster adapter or lots of adhesive/Loctite to make a seal chemically(not elegant or safe).

Put a picture of the fittings you are using so we can see what you are doing. There is no way you can do this with verbage. It is high pressure. Don't mess around! Be safe!
Edit for Whip Question. Joe uses a restrictor so the flow is not adequate to create a whipping hose when the air is turned on and nobody has control of the hose end. If the hose has a lot of pressure coming thru and no flow restrictor the hose can and will whip around and beat you and your equipment up till you shut it off. I use a Max hose lenth of 9" on standard braided line and 18" on Microbore. If you buy hoses over 10" and they do not have microbore or a port restrictor the result can be a really bad situation if you don't watch your procedures. Turning a tank on with the hose just dangling can be very dangerous. If you don't get Foster collar fully engaged each time, if the hose blows off the Foster, the Female Fosters oring seal will nearly always get launched. Make sure the QC's fit good and collar is fully engaged each time you fill. Don't use Lines that are full flow, long and not port restricted. You can get #010 70 durometer Buna at nearly any Seal supplier.

TimmyMac1

[sperho]

It worth your seeming hassle, your love the rig.
 Many people like to have fosters on all there rifles. A Male foster check valve for you AA is inder $20.00:
http://rapidairweapons.com/new%20items.html
John

I just installed this on my S410.  Works like a charm.  I also purchased one of these spanners to securely hold the air tube cap on while I loosened the stock AA fill nipple.  The stock nipple was on pretty tight.  It has 10 mm flats.    Fits the holes perfectly.

[ShootingBlind]

Thanks all. 

I'll go back and rethink this whole thing.

I misstated the DIN fitting thing.  The length of the fill station male DIN is MORE than sufficient.  But it does not seem to seal at the bottom.  In other words, I have threads galore left when the male is inserted and bottoms out in the female.  But it does not seem to seal on the 80 CF.

Regarding the QC/Fosters.  Having dealt with scuba stuff before, I'm pretty good about making sure I have lock before introducing pressure into hoses.

But the notion that there might be an Oring issue in the fem QC wasn't something I've thought of. 

I beleve I have an Air Force Female QC to female adaptor in the mix, but they should fit fine.  Right?

I'm sure Joe will give me some help as well.  I was hoping to get it straight and get recharged before today. 

If I were to swap my AA fill system with a Foster connection, would the existing cover fit?

I like that factory cover for the fill bit. 

Other ideas, as usual, are welcomed.  I'll let y'all know when I get lock and seal and pressure.

Thanks, Rob

[sperho]

If I were to swap my AA fill system with a Foster connection, would the existing cover fit?

Yes.

[sperho]

Oh, and I just meticulously cleaned the RAW fitting (blew it out inside and out with compressed air) and used no thread dope or PTFE tape.  The o-ring on the fitting seems to seal well.  Snugged it up pretty firmly, but didn't put heavy duty torque on it.

[sperho]

I beleve I have an Air Force Female QC to female adaptor in the mix, but they should fit fine.  Right?

  If they are standard Foster type fittings, they should mate.

[ShootingBlind]

OK, Sperho, TimMac and all:

I spoke with Joe B this morning and we came up with some unusual ideas.  But I had my own.

Since I noticed the threads of my DIN valve on my scuba tanks looked somewhat less than perfect.  I took a small dab of silicone grease and put it on the threads, making sure to remove any excess.  Viola, the DIN fill fitting screwed right in and made a good seal.  I think these tanks have been around for many years - yes, they were just hydro'd and are fine.  And the threads are a little whatever. 

My male foster QC connector with the BSS female backside, up past the nose I very lightly applied a little silicone grease and wiped off the majority with a towel.  Clean but somewhat shiny, it went right into the foster female connector and sealed perfectly. 

Now, while I was at it, I followed TimMac's advised and dissassembled the foster male/FSS female from the AA fill adaptor and removed the teflon tape I had wrapped around the AA adaptor threads.  I may, in the near future, ask for how do I bleed all the air from the tank of the AA, because there may have been some blown in.  Cannot tell for sure, but there are certainly possibiilities.  I can see some of that stuff getting under a valve somewhere - well, maybe that would handle my question about how to get air out of the gun, it just wouldn't stay in. 

I'll say this:  At least in my approach, I considered the pressure and air flow, and kept stuff from being near the bore of the air charging equipment and only applied any silicone in micro quantities and then removing all but a film. 

IF I DO need to remove and clean the air tube, any suggestions as how to go about it?  I'm fairly in the boonies and likely need to figure this out myself.

Thanks, Rob