Anyone have a Diana model 48 .20 ?

[Toxylon]

So, asking the new DIANA about older models is quite useless. They do not have the data and the younger persons do not have the memories.

There's quite a bit of difference between not knowing an answer, and telling what the answer is when not knowing it. The problem is the latter, not the former.

[Denby95]

I don't know if this might provide useful context for you about the mixed views of the desirability of .20 cal. Check out this thread, specifically Hoosierdaddy's post. He got a great deal on a .20 cal and was very excited about it, meanwhile when he asked the seller what was wrong with it, the answer was that it was .20 cal.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=211701.280

Not stating .20 cal is a bad thing, it's just not as common and as such some of us don't want to deal with it, like it's limited pellet options. It has some great projectile performance characteristics though. So some people are thrilled and others have no interest.

[HectorMedina]

Let's go beyond the "myths" and look at realities:

From the Internal ballistics standpoint, piston airguns have a limit of shootability at around 22-24 ft-lbs. More than that, materials and shooter suffer and it becomes impossible to perform well in the long run, impossible for the shooter and impossible for the gun.
On top of that, pellets, due to their shape, have a stability limit around 875 fps, depending on the barrel geometry and quality, it may be a bit more or a bit less, but the limit will never be too far off.
So, if you put those TWO reasons together, you get to a pellet weight in the range of 14 grains region

If you make a 14 grs. pellet in 0.177" you need a longer barrel race under pressure, and spring-piston airguns cannot deliver that.
If you make a 14 grs. pellet in 0.22" then you can reach the proper expansion ratio, but the pellet is relatively "fat & squat"
Make it in 0.20" and you have the best possible combination of everything.

Because MOST airgunners are NOT concerned with really long range endeavours, those who want to hunt, prefer the 0.22" and those who like to target shoot, prefer the 0.177"
BUT that does  not mean that the 0.20" is not, technically speaking, the best combination, it just means that the market has preferences.
In many ways I like to think of the 20 cal as the 7 mm Rem Mag. Try to sell a 7 RM to an East Coast shooter, LOL!

As PCP's have become more prevalent, the present long range king is the 0.25" out of PCP's, and that has eclipsed the 20 cal further. Within the 20-24 ft-lbs region, the 20 cal is the best.

Now, that region does not include many HW's, so it is restricted and possibly the reason why not many use it.

There are few pellets in the caliber? Maybe, I can think of 5 VERY WELL MADE pellets:

JSB 13.7
JSB 15.8
H&N Baracuda
H&N FTT
Predator PolyMags

With these 5 there is no argument at least one, if not three or four, will shoot well out of most quality 20 caliber barrels.

IMHE, the D48's with the DIANA barrel shoot well the FTT's when tuned down to around 16 ft-lbs, in the Lothar Walther barreled DIANAS, the JSB 13.7's are ideal; a few rifles that have been specifically setup for the heavies do very well out to 100 yards in the 21-22 ft-lbs region.

Are the pellets more expensive? NOPE, as long as you are comparing apples to apples. If you want to compare to the Crosman Premier HP's from the tins in blister packs that are sold at $5.00 in WalMarts, then it is not an apple to apple comparison. Where is the difference? You MAY get an outstanding batch of Crosman's that shoot real well, and when those are gone, the next batch/tin may be terrible. With JSB and H&N you can be fairly confident that dimensions and weights will be kept under tight control. Still, when the batch changes, you may need to re-sight in, but it will not be DRASTICALLY different.

I LOVE the 20 cal, but by the rules of the WFTF I am forced to shoot under 12 ft-lbs; in that power region, the 0.177" DOES have external ballistic advantages.

It is a pity that the HW's are generally restricted to lower power levels they are the ones that would benefit the MOST from JSB making Tin pellets in the 13.7's dies. They would come out at 9 grs. and they would be ideal for the 12 - 16 ft-lbs region.

Anyway, keep us posted about your DIANA 48 in 20 cal.





HM

[kzz1kaw]

Let's go beyond the "myths" and look at realities:

From the Internal ballistics standpoint, piston airguns have a limit of shootability at around 22-24 ft-lbs. More than that, materials and shooter suffer and it becomes impossible to perform well in the long run, impossible for the shooter and impossible for the gun.
On top of that, pellets, due to their shape, have a stability limit around 875 fps, depending on the barrel geometry and quality, it may be a bit more or a bit less, but the limit will never be too far off.
So, if you put those TWO reasons together, you get to a pellet weight in the range of 14 grains region

If you make a 14 grs. pellet in 0.177" you need a longer barrel race under pressure, and spring-piston airguns cannot deliver that.
If you make a 14 grs. pellet in 0.22" then you can reach the proper expansion ratio, but the pellet is relatively "fat & squat"
Make it in 0.20" and you have the best possible combination of everything.

Because MOST airgunners are NOT concerned with really long range endeavours, those who want to hunt, prefer the 0.22" and those who like to target shoot, prefer the 0.177"
BUT that does  not mean that the 0.20" is not, technically speaking, the best combination, it just means that the market has preferences.
In many ways I like to think of the 20 cal as the 7 mm Rem Mag. Try to sell a 7 RM to an East Coast shooter, LOL!

As PCP's have become more prevalent, the present long range king is the 0.25" out of PCP's, and that has eclipsed the 20 cal further. Within the 20-24 ft-lbs region, the 20 cal is the best.

Now, that region does not include many HW's, so it is restricted and possibly the reason why not many use it.

There are few pellets in the caliber? Maybe, I can think of 5 VERY WELL MADE pellets:

JSB 13.7
JSB 15.8
H&N Baracuda
H&N FTT
Predator PolyMags

With these 5 there is no argument at least one, if not three or four, will shoot well out of most quality 20 caliber barrels.

IMHE, the D48's with the DIANA barrel shoot well the FTT's when tuned down to around 16 ft-lbs, in the Lothar Walther barreled DIANAS, the JSB 13.7's are ideal; a few rifles that have been specifically setup for the heavies do very well out to 100 yards in the 21-22 ft-lbs region.

Are the pellets more expensive? NOPE, as long as you are comparing apples to apples. If you want to compare to the Crosman Premier HP's from the tins in blister packs that are sold at $5.00 in WalMarts, then it is not an apple to apple comparison. Where is the difference? You MAY get an outstanding batch of Crosman's that shoot real well, and when those are gone, the next batch/tin may be terrible. With JSB and H&N you can be fairly confident that dimensions and weights will be kept under tight control. Still, when the batch changes, you may need to re-sight in, but it will not be DRASTICALLY different.

I LOVE the 20 cal, but by the rules of the WFTF I am forced to shoot under 12 ft-lbs; in that power region, the 0.177" DOES have external ballistic advantages.

It is a pity that the HW's are generally restricted to lower power levels they are the ones that would benefit the MOST from JSB making Tin pellets in the 13.7's dies. They would come out at 9 grs. and they would be ideal for the 12 - 16 ft-lbs region.

Anyway, keep us posted about your DIANA 48 in 20 cal.





HM

I will! Upcoming Pesting Video coming soon on my YouTube channel https://youtube.com/@airgunspestingch.8426?si=1F70V6-2HNfh0aO3
Among my .20 caliber arsenal:
Weihrauch HW97
Weihrauch HW95
Weihrauch HW100
AirForce Talonor

[HectorMedina]

Now, the matter at hand:
DIANA has made FOUR rifles in 0.20" cal.

There are .20 cal D45's out there, as well. Or is this part of the Old Diana that is beyond the scope of today?

It's not beyond the scope and the story has already been posted. Look at the second page of this thread.


HM

[HectorMedina]

Factory had to be moved to the northern section of the country and that implied that anything that was not essential had to go.

Including the "library".

I take this to mean that detailed model / manufacturing data covering c. 120 years of history was simply destroyed. If this is so, it's just horrendous.

Not destroyed. For a while a TON of truly RARE Diana's came on the market through the auction sites in Germany, meaning that the "Library" itself was pieced out and sold bit by bit.
Like many "historic things" once you remove them from their context, the value diminishes greatly. It is would be almost impossible to piece together a museum now while it would have been medium hard back then.

The realities of the company were what they were.


HM