Diana 27 = Poor Man's HW30...?

[lillysdad621]

No, the diana 35, detuned to 27 levels. Mine shot the jsb 8.44 at about 780 fps, so a bit softer may be better.

[cjtamu]

No, the diana 35, detuned to 27 levels. Mine shot the jsb 8.44 at about 780 fps, so a bit softer may be better.

Whoo, I think that’s hot for that gun? Mine is a 1968 Winchester 435/Diana 35 and is 700 FPS with the 7.33. Stock internals, had never been fired when I got it. I thought I remembered seeing that power was “normal” for that gun. Could be mistaken, you or MDriskill would know better than I. But you’re correct, it’s marvelous at that power level.

[MDriskill]

As mentioned above, the models 27 and 35 were in essence the same gun with different diameter pistons, so make an interesting comparison. I don't have much hand's-on experience with the 35, but would expect it to be maybe 50 to 80 FPS faster with most pellets?

For what it's worth, here's some performance numbers from my unmodified 1981 RWS 27 (done many years ago, hence the obsolete pellets, ha). Each line is: pellet, weight in grains, average velocity (15-shot string), extreme deviation, standard deviation (as a percentage of the average), and energy.

+ Ruko Match, 7.6 gr, 648 FPS, 23 FPS, 0.94%, 7.04 FPE
+ JSB Express, 7.9 gr, 615 FPS, 16 FPS, 0.84%, 6.60 FPE
+ RWS Hobby, 6.9 gr, 676 FPS, 32 FPS, 1.22%, 7.05 FPE
+ RWS Hobby (older batch with skirts sized down), 7.0 gr, 667 FPS, 34 FPS, 1.72%, 6.94 FPE
+ RWS Meisterkugeln, 8.4 gr, 618 FPS, 16 FPS, 0.97%, 7.11 FPE
+ RWS Superdome, 8.4 gr, 621 FPS, 23 FPS, 1.36%, 7.16 FPE
+ Eley Wasp, 7.3 gr, 677 FPS, 15 FPS, 0.65%, 7.34 FPE

I loved the Wasp in this rifle - the original ones actually made by Kynoch/Eley in those days. A very well-designed pellet with amazing tin-to-tin consistency.

[HectorMedina]

As mentioned above, the models 27 and 35 were in essence the same gun with different diameter pistons, so make an interesting comparison. I don't have much hand's-on experience with the 35, but would expect it to be maybe 50 to 80 FPS faster with most pellets?

For what it's worth, here's some performance numbers from my unmodified 1981 RWS 27 (done many years ago, hence the obsolete pellets, ha). Each line is: pellet, weight in grains, average velocity (15-shot string), extreme deviation, standard deviation (as a percentage of the average), and energy.

+ Ruko Match, 7.6 gr, 648 FPS, 23 FPS, 0.94%, 7.04 FPE
+ JSB Express, 7.9 gr, 615 FPS, 16 FPS, 0.84%, 6.60 FPE
+ RWS Hobby, 6.9 gr, 676 FPS, 32 FPS, 1.22%, 7.05 FPE
+ RWS Hobby (older batch with skirts sized down), 7.0 gr, 667 FPS, 34 FPS, 1.72%, 6.94 FPE
+ RWS Meisterkugeln, 8.4 gr, 618 FPS, 16 FPS, 0.97%, 7.11 FPE
+ RWS Superdome, 8.4 gr, 621 FPS, 23 FPS, 1.36%, 7.16 FPE
+ Eley Wasp, 7.3 gr, 677 FPS, 15 FPS, 0.65%, 7.34 FPE

I loved the Wasp in this rifle - the original ones actually made by Kynoch/Eley in those days. A very well-designed pellet with amazing tin-to-tin consistency.

Not the Wasps, but these are made by Eley:
https://www.creedmoorsports.com/product/eley-tenex-air-pellets-4-point-49mm-point-177/pellets-
Available in all customary 3 head diameters

They also have a "practice"' version, called the "Ventus" @ $12'ísh per 450 count box it's not that expensive.
I have tested them in quality airguns and they do perform well.Though, as usual, some bores prefer the RWS Basic to any other pellets, LOL!

;-)

Keep well  and shoot straight!






HM

[Kragman1]

Mike, if the posted numbers on your 1981 D27 were from a "healthy" gun, then it would seem that my 1977 D27 in .22 is also in good shape.  It's producing roughly 7.5 fpe, sometimes producing 8 fpe.  Sounds right in relation to a .177 version.

A D35 might just add enough velocity to make it legal for hunting in my state.  That, and a thermos full of coffee would make for a nice fall morning.

[lillysdad621]

The diana 35 and the Hy score model 809 labelled D35 i have both shot about 10 fpe, in .177. I tuned one and the other was a NIB i found at an estate sale years back, so i dont have a reason to believe that they were "hotted" up. All i can imagine is that maybe the new gun dieselled a little, and that my self tune gun was very efficient. But then i detuned it and made it shot 700 with lighter pellets. i was looking for a relaxed back yard plinker i could shoot all day without being tired, disturbing anyone and if the occasional pest showed up, well, it could do that too. The D35 was a very versatile air rifle. The closest thing i can think of now is a HW30s in either .20 (optimal!!!) or .22.

[MDriskill]

Mike, if the posted numbers on your 1981 D27 were from a "healthy" gun, then it would seem that my 1977 D27 in .22 is also in good shape.  It's producing roughly 7.5 fpe, sometimes producing 8 fpe.  Sounds right in relation to a .177 version.

Hector: Thanks! Did not know about those and will definitely check 'em out!

Brian: I got the RWS 27 in pretty much as-new condition. It got shot quite a bit back when those tests were done, and is well maintained. I've have never had it apart, so it's about as original / healthy as they get I reckon.

Surprisingly, I've chrono'd only two other 27's over the years: one string with a .22 cal Winchester 427 I no longer own...
+ RWS Hobby, 11.9 gr, 521 FPS, 23 FPS, 1.12%, 7.17 FPE.

...and three with the pre-war .177 cal DRP model 27 in my photo above:
+ RWS Hobby, 7.0 gr, 691 FPS, 16 FPS, 0.74%, 7.42 FPE
+ RWS R10 Pistol, 7.7 gr, 649 FPS, 15 FPS, 0.71%, 7.20 FPE
+ RWS Superdome, 8.3 gr, 625 FPS, 19 FPS, 0.77%, 7.20 FPE

Don't know detailed internal condition of either rifle, but a previous owner of the DRP obviously knew his stuff. It shoots hard, and a 15-shot SD well under 1% ain't shabby for a leather-sealed oldie. And it's so smooth I would've guessed mid-4's when I first shot it!

I have one old .22 cal D35 on hand, and I remember five others passing through here, but never managed to get any of 'em behind a chrono.

[lillysdad621]

that peerless is true airgun porn... that is a beautiful air rifle

[MDriskill]

Thank you! It's an interesting old gun. It's a model "35/b," which was the standard sporter of the day with the addition of Diana's rotating-element "star" front sight, and two-mode rear sight (could mounted on the breech block as an open sight, or added a peep attachment for use at the rear...pics are of a similar model 50 underlever).

Hard to see in the photo, but it has a slightly tapered barrel - only one I've ever seen on a post-war barrel-cocker. The solid alloy trigger blade of the early post-war ball-sear guns is another quality touch.

[Bill_in_TR]

What's the modern day equivalent of the 27 that's in current production by Diana? The 250 maybe?

Starting in 1984, Diana replaced all their classic sporters (models 23, 25, 27, 35, 50, etc.) with new models that had synthetic piston seals, safeties, and other modern accoutrements. The best-known of these is the model 34 - now a classic in its own right. But there was a selection of smaller rifles too, the models 26 and 28 (same except for the 28's nicer stock) being the equivalent of the 27. There was also the smaller model 24 (= the old 25), and an even more junior model 20 for a while.

Like the model 34, the smaller models went through many revisions over the years; but unlike the 34, they came and went in various markets worldwide, and were not hits in the power-mad US. I completely lost track of when they were available, where, under what names, and with which details (at least for me!). But they are out there.

A good friend of mine had early and late versions of the model 28 (the latter went to the same 28mm piston as the model 34 I think). They are very nice rifles.

Where does the D280 fit in this hierarchy? I acquired one that was tuned by Hector just a while back. I am in love with my 280. For some reason the 280 never did well in the US market yet it seems to fit a nice niche.

[Artie]

Not intending to derail the thread but... Speaking of "poor man's HW30", apparently the Diana 240 Classic is available again.

[lillysdad621]

the new 240 is a rebranded xisico 12. chinese made, a good gun in its own merit, but not a Diana 240 classic. They do make great plinkers, thou. My xs12 is fantastic and adding a B26 trigger makes it so much better.

[Artie]

The name is confusing if not misleading. I am aware of the chinese made  "two forty". Pyramid/Airgundepot are not calling their offering  "two forty" but instead are offering the "240 Classic". I also see them on ebay. Very confusing.

[tjk]

Great thread with lots of interesting history. I tuned a B12 some years ago and thought it was a great little plinker. The “Two-Fourty” I’ve seen in YouTube is a big cosmetic change from the Xisico B12. I am thankyou that I got the Made in Germany 240 Classic when I did. Still a “pentagon F” power choked rifle, but a fun rifle to shoot and plink with.