Does anyone have problems with barrel leading from crosman premier 14.3 grain

[FlyFisherMan101]

Was wandering does anyone get any leading in the barrel from shooting crosman premier hp 14.3 grain
pellets in thier pcp,s at speeds of 900fps and above if so how do you stop this from happening ? in a break
barrel its no problem to clean out but in a pcp it would be a pain in the butt to have to remove the barrel
all the time to properly clean this lead out.Reason i ask is because these pellets are extremely accurate in
my beni cayden 22 thanks

[JimD]

Don,

You shouldn't have to remove your barrel to clean it.  I don't have a Cayden but on the 5 PCPs I have, I just use a pull through cleaning system.  On the 177 I use a "patch worm" which can also be used on other calibers.  You push a plastic piece something like weed whacker line through the barrel after sticking it through a patch.  Its long enough you can grab it before the patch enters the barrel.  Then you pull the patch through.  At first I wet them with Ballistol and after they start coming out clean I pull a couple dry ones through.  I have other cleaners that you put down a barrel to the breech and then put a patch in a loop and pull it back through.  Either type works fine and no barrel removal is necessary.

I don't think crosman pellets result in the need for more barrel cleaning versus other brands.  They do seem to be a bit "dirtier" with loose lead pieces in the tin, however.  I think most of those fall out and don't end up going through the barrel.  I hope your Cayden keeps liking them, I got good accuracy in my P35-177 from one tin but the replacement tins are not very useful - much less accurate.  Head sizes are all over the place.  Seems to be a large variation in quality.  My Prod and my P35-22 shoot the 14.3 grain pretty will but both do better with H&N pellets.

My Prod was my first PCP and it got cleaned a lot more than my current ones.  My last three have been P35s.  Every time I got a few bigger groups in a row I would blame a "dirty barrel" and clean it.  Didn't hurt anything but I am pretty sure it was my concentration that was the problem, not a dirty barrel.   There are lots of theories on how often to clean but as I get more experience I find I am cleaning less often and still getting better accuracy.  I think the accuracy improvement is me getting better rather than the gun.

Jim

[splitbeing]

The pellets have graphite on them. People have different methods for cleaning the pellets. I putvthem in a strainer and spray them woth ballistol, then pour them into a bowl with toilet paper lining it and swirl them around 7ntil the paper is black. Put the pellets back in the strainer and repeat one or two more times.  Doing so reduces how often the barrel needs cleaning. Some report much better accuracy doing this. I don't shoot them at long enough distances to tell. The same folks might sort their pellets by head size too.

[FlyFisherMan101]

Thanks JimD and Splitbeing

[Wayne52]

I think that Crosman pellets would probably be one of the worse pellets to use just because of the high content of antimony in them.  All commercial pellets made have
a certain amount of antimony in them.  I never get any lead fouling on any of my guns but I do cast all my own pellets/slugs and haven't used commercial ammo in an
airgun for over 5 years now.

[nervoustrigger]

Lead buildup (leading) does disproportionately increase at high velocities, and a harder alloy like Crosman's sticks more tenaciously to the bore than a softer alloy.  Also if I remember correctly, the Cayden has a choked barrel which represents another aggravating factor.

To make a barrel last longer between cleanings, spend a little time to smooth the bore and then begin lubricating your pellets very lightly.  The smoothing step is to remove the surface fretting (microscopic roughness) that strips off lead.  There are various ways to accomplish it...fire lapping, or a cleaning rod & jag, or a cast lap.

The presence of graphite on the pellets will make patches pull black almost immediately but it is distinctly separate from leading, and is largely benign and easy to remove.

[FlyFisherMan101]

Thanks everyone 

[nced]

Was wandering does anyone get any leading in the barrel from shooting crosman premier hp 14.3 grain
pellets in thier pcp,s at speeds of 900fps and above if so how do you stop this from happening ? in a break
barrel its no problem to clean out but in a pcp it would be a pain in the butt to have to remove the barrel
all the time to properly clean this lead out.Reason i ask is because these pellets are extremely accurate in
my beni cayden 22 thanks

Decades ago my brother and I shot boxed unlubed .177 Crosman Premiers and my brother's R9 accuracy went from "one hole at 30 yards" to "shotgun patterns". He used his bore scope to show that the rifling at the "muzzle choke" was literally burried under a layer of "packed lead" that was polished from pulling a bunch of cloth patches in an attempt to clear the fouling. His solution to clear the fouling was to soak his R9 bore with Hoppes #9 (used that to clean his black powder bores) and scrub the bore with a .177 brass brush. After this treatment the rifling was again visible at the "muzzle choke" and the accuracy was restored after a few "seasoning shots" with new CPLs.

It was at that time that a search was done for a "pellet lube" that would make bore cleaning easier by preventing "Crosman hard lead pellets" from "soldering in the rifling". As a side note, I find it interesting that during the "bore fouling" both my R9 and my brother's were tined to shoot Crosman pellets at 900ish fps. Anywhoo, the first lube we tested on the CPLs was FP10 and it worked well keeping the Crosman lead from bonding tightly requiring onkly a few pulled patches to clear. Problem with the FP10 was that after applying to the pellets stored in a leather pellet pouch the pellets would get a coating of sticky grey oxidation that caused rapid accuracy degrade and subsequent bore cleanings. The next lube tried was aerosol Slick50 OneLube and it worked perfectly so that was the only pellet lube we used. We didn't notice any accuracy or velocity differences using One Lube, the only difference was that we didn't only needed one "cloth patch bore clean" after a 1250 count box of pellets to restore accuracy with a couple pulled patches.

The aerosol One Lube would diesel in a springer (don't think PCPs have this issue) if it got into the pellet skirts so the lube was never sprayed directly on the pellets. Only a spritz of lube smeared around the bottom of a dedicated pan in which the dry pellets were dumped and then gently stirred to distribute lube only on the rifling surfaces..........


As a side note, over the years I did occasionally receive a case of pellets with excess "parting compound". This "parting compound" (looked like powdered graphite) would mix with the pellet lube and "REALLY gum up" the rifling so I would need to wash and dry the new Crosman pellets before lubing........

[HunterWhite]

I thought that the grey stuff on Crosman pellets was graphite. Graphite is a lubricant, wouldn't that tend to prevent leading?

Hunter

[Goose]

Leading isn't something I've noticed and I use those pellet almost exclusively because they're what the rifle likes best.

The barrel was cleaned and lapped recently.  It doesn't have enough use yet to tell conclusively if it will be a problem.  It's also been waxed like the thread about it below indicates.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=171438.0

You might try that to see if filling the pores in the metal will help.  Lapping is something else that you might look into.

Luck,

J~

[splitbeing]

Oddly, the box of CP heavies .177 I have now in a cardboard box are the cleanest crosman pellets I've ever had. Usually, picking up and loading just a few will leave noticeable gray on my fingers. Not so with this box.

[JimD]

It isn't the 22 caliber 14.3 grain but my P35-177 shoots 10.65 grain pellets at just under 900 fps.  I likes H&N Baracuda Match the best but also shot one tin of Crosman "10.5" grain well too.  I put the 10.5 in quotes because these are really 10.6 grain.  Anyway, I think the H&N are also a harder alloy similar to the Crosmans and I see no evidence either pellet results in any need for frequent cleaning.  I've cleaned the barrel after close to 1000 rounds and while the patches come out dirty for awhile, the accuracy is the same before and after.  SPA barrels are not lauded for their quality but this gun, and it's 22 caliber brother, are quite accurate.  I've shot two 187s on the 30 yard challenge so far with the 177 and 3 over 190 with the 22. 

I do not think Crosman pellets are high quality and I was disappointed in the wildly inconsistent head size in my last two tins of 10.5s but I have not seen any evidence in my guns that they build up in the barrel or otherwise have any harmful effect.  I use the 14.3s in my Prod when I cannot find the copper plated FTTs it prefers.  I consider them to be decent, cheap, pellets.  Not close to the best in any of my guns but usable.  My P35-22 will also shoot the 14.3s accurately but they are really moving out of that gun. It just shoots H&N Baracuda Match significantly better.

[SADave]

Supposedly Crosman are  bringing out a higher quality Premier this year. Hopefully closer to the old cardboard box ones.

[threesuns]

I agree with nced. after a bit of research a few years back, i started washing all my Crosman pellets .177 and .22. An empty tin with a foam liner and a couple spritz of Slick50 Onelube will prep a lot of pellets. If switching to a premium pellet for serious work I just pull a patch and I am good to go.

I only have 1 pcp that can push them past 900fps and haven’t noticed any build up in the bore after 1000+ pellets. Mostly plinking with the Premiers.