Moly Lithium Grease

[nced]

I really never considered the HW piston guns I shoot are especially stressful considering that the compression pressures are only a couple thousand PSI (I've worked with 5,000 psi hydraulic systems) and that such pressure only exists for a few milliseconds before the pellet pops the leade. During the piston travel under compression there is relatively small amount of side loading on the piston contrary to high speed bearings in rotating equipment. LOL.....the only "side loading" of a piston is when it's being cocked where the cocking shoe is placing LOW SPEED pressure on the rear of the piston skirt.

[airgunbuff]

God I really enjoyed this thread.. so much passion. kind of like my thingy is bigger than your thingy !! LOL
Guys it not rocket xcience.. Moly works and has for a lonnnnnng time.  J.M moly rocks and that is all you have to know.. well it helps to know where to put it..... LOL 
anyway !!
kindly
ron

[nced]

God I really enjoyed this thread.. so much passion. kind of like my thingy is bigger than your thingy !! LOL
Guys it not rocket xcience.. Moly works and has for a lonnnnnng time.  J.M moly rocks and that is all you have to know.. well it helps to know where to put it..... LOL 
anyway !!
kindly
ron

LOL....you're exactly correct and I do need to apologize for my snarky "mine is bigger than yours style comment" so I deleted that line from my previous comment.

You're also correct that "molly bearing dinosaur grease" lubes have been used successfully in springers for decades IF properly applied and that is what I started with years ago, however I found that Krytox works better for my purposes.

[Mark 611]

Well put ED,

[Yogi]

Once again,  how far do you want to go! 
All FT springer shooters that I know of are concerned about sun/heat POI shift.  Whether this is in the compression tube, scope tube. does not matter.  How they deal with it is the variable......

-Y

[HectorMedina]

I really never considered the HW piston guns I shoot are especially stressful considering that the compression pressures are only a couple thousand PSI (I've worked with 5,000 psi hydraulic systems) and that such pressure only exists for a few milliseconds before the pellet pops the leade. During the piston travel under compression there is relatively small amount of side loading on the piston contrary to high speed bearings in rotating equipment. LOL.....the only "side loading" of a piston is when it's being cocked where the cocking shoe is placing LOW SPEED pressure on the rear of the piston skirt.

Ed;

I find you curiously inconsistent.
On one hand we have broken scopes, burned seals, dieseling/smoking guns, pellets deformed by shooting to the point of loosing the skirt, screws that loosen " by themselves", scopes that creep, etc, etc, etc. and you have shown these effects yourself in your guns a number of times.

And you say the mid-high powered spring piston airgun is not an "especially stressful" device?

To get to the "not especially stressful" region, you would need to go down to the 5.5 ft-lbs level and use the gun as a blow gun, not a "pop gun" and, even less, a "diesel gun". Like the old Match guns of half a century ago.

Keep well, healthy and sane







HM

[nced]

I really never considered the HW piston guns I shoot are especially stressful considering that the compression pressures are only a couple thousand PSI (I've worked with 5,000 psi hydraulic systems) and that such pressure only exists for a few milliseconds before the pellet pops the leade. During the piston travel under compression there is relatively small amount of side loading on the piston contrary to high speed bearings in rotating equipment. LOL.....the only "side loading" of a piston is when it's being cocked where the cocking shoe is placing LOW SPEED pressure on the rear of the piston skirt.

Ed;

I find you curiously inconsistent.
On one hand we have broken scopes, burned seals, dieseling/smoking guns, pellets deformed by shooting to the point of loosing the skirt, screws that loosen " by themselves", scopes that creep, etc, etc, etc. and you have shown these effects yourself in your guns a number of times.

And you say the mid-high powered spring piston airgun is not an "especially stressful" device?

To get to the "not especially stressful" region, you would need to go down to the 5.5 ft-lbs level and use the gun as a blow gun, not a "pop gun" and, even less, a "diesel gun". Like the old Match guns of half a century ago.

Keep well, healthy and sane







HM

OK, just for entertainment purposes,
I thought the discussion was between the effectiveness of molly bearing petro based lubes, Dupont Krytox, and your claim that Ultimox is different that Krytox even though this is a statement directly from the Ultimox site "MicroLubrol ULTIMOX 226 is formulated with fully synthetic highly fluorinated perfluoropolyether oil and micronized polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) just like GPL-226, GPL-205 and GPL-206 greases."  I'm of the personal opinion that any of the mentioned lubes are adequate for maintaining lube between the sliding parts of a springer with proper application, however improper application of molly bearing lubes CAN damage springer internals due to detonation. On the other hand neither Ultimox or Krytox will diesel and both are more forgiving with less than proper application.

Concerning "especially stressful", I thought it would be obvious that I was considering pressures at the lube boundary, not issues concerning forces of inertia on various components so lets take these one at a time. I even mentioned that the internal pressures in front of a piston seal is only a couple thousand PSI (if that much) and while such pressure is enough to cause petro based lubes to diesel (hense burnt piston seals), this pressure doesn't have much to do with the film of lube on the piston sides.

"On one hand we have broken scopes"
Yep, however that is a function of the "two way inertia" caused by the piston, not high stress on the lubed surfaces. You solve this issue by buying a spring loaded sliding mount and then modifying it so it remains accurate. Still, this has no bearing on the internal loading of the lubed sliding surfaces.

"dieseling/smoking guns,"
LOL....even my 8fpe HW35 dieseled, especially when it had the initial oil soaked leather seal where Kardew claimed was responsible for 30% of the power. This has nothing to do with high stress on the lubed sliding parts.

"pellets deformed by shooting to the point of loosing the skirt"
Hummmm.....I've never had that issue that I remember. Still, that has nothing to do with highly loaded lubed sliding surfaces.

"screws that loosen " by themselves"
Really, the only crews that loosened for me were the stock screws due to the compressing of wood fibers which has nothing to do with highly stressed lubed surfaces. Matter of fact, after steel sleeving my stock screw mounting holes years ago there has been no need to retorque.......


"scopes that creep"
LOL....this is a function of the inertia caused by the weight of the sliding piston which has nothing to do with the pressures on lube between the sliding surfaces.


" etc, etc, etc."

[avator]

Man, we sure know how to completely confuse a relatively new member asking a simple question, don't we?
The simple answer is 'no' due to it's low level of moly.

[nced]

Man, we sure know how to completely confuse a relatively new member asking a simple question, don't we?
The simple answer is 'no' due to it's low level of moly.

LOL.....that's too simple and not nearly as entertaining! 

Actually, if molly bearing lubes are desired, there are ARH lubes containing the proper "molly content" so no reason to be confused, it's then simply a matter of PROPER application..........
https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42989.htm

[avator]

Man, we sure know how to completely confuse a relatively new member asking a simple question, don't we?
The simple answer is 'no' due to it's low level of moly.

LOL.....that's too simple and not nearly as entertaining! 

Actually, if molly bearing lubes are desired, there are ARH lubes containing the proper "molly content" so no reason to be confused, it's then simply a matter of PROPER application..........
https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42989.htm

Bingo.... good enough for ARH, good enough for me... 
... and yes, proper application is key.

[SpiralGroove]

Man, we sure know how to completely confuse a relatively new member asking a simple question, don't we?
The simple answer is 'no' due to it's low level of moly.

LOL.....that's too simple and not nearly as entertaining! 

Actually, if molly bearing lubes are desired, there are ARH lubes containing the proper "molly content" so no reason to be confused, it's then simply a matter of PROPER application..........
https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42989.htm

Bingo.... good enough for ARH, good enough for me... 
... and yes, proper application is key.

Yes Avator - That answer was given in post #4 of this thread .

The rest was pure entertainment ... keeping the GTA's Government on their toes....

[Yogi]

Man, we sure know how to completely confuse a relatively new member asking a simple question, don't we?
The simple answer is 'no' due to it's low level of moly.

That is what I was trying to point out.

-Y

[airgunbuff]

I will get flamed here but so be it... such tender little egos here !!  At my age I have seen heard most all of the hype gimmics ect.  Its just so much BS ... but airgunners can be a fickle bunch.  Lets face it grown men playing with bb guns... LOL what could possiably go wrong   But it is entertaining up to a point!!
I tire of so called experts.. If wonder why the world is so messed up ?? People like to think they are it the cats meow.. I know better because yada yada yada.  In the end few care.  Spring guns are fun they are precision tools.  Nothing more nothing less.

All one needs to keep ones air arm working great is a little tube of J.M moly and perhaps some clear tar and you are set as far as lubes.  Just know where to put it.  Get all uppity and I can yell you where to put it and you will not like it !! That is humor for the thin skinned types !!
Some people just love to arque and make a fuss over little to nothing !!  I assume most of us are over the age of 30, *(&^ most of us are over 50-60 !! Sit back grow up have a brew perhaps a good cigar and relax and have fun. I love to shoot !  I find it relaxing and calming.
We have turned the world to &^^& ! do we have to F&^* everything up including this hobby?  I don't need 20 ft pounds to have fun. I just need a smooth shooting arm which can hit the target consistanly. Now bend the *(&^ over and take your medicine !!
This was all said in jest... well maybe not LOL !!
Back in the day it was drislide for leather sealed airguns now it is Moly for synthetic seals. It is NOT rocket science!!  Never was , never will be.
Just sayin !!
kindly
ron

[byhsu]

How about the Loctite 51048?  is that one good for lubing the springers?

[SpiralGroove]

I will get flamed here but so be it... such tender little egos here !!  At my age I have seen heard most all of the hype gimmics ect.  Its just so much BS ... but airgunners can be a fickle bunch.  Lets face it grown men playing with bb guns... LOL what could possiably go wrong   But it is entertaining up to a point!!
I tire of so called experts.. If wonder why the world is so messed up ?? People like to think they are it the cats meow.. I know better because yada yada yada.  In the end few care.  Spring guns are fun they are precision tools.  Nothing more nothing less.

All one needs to keep ones air arm working great is a little tube of J.M moly and perhaps some clear tar and you are set as far as lubes.  Just know where to put it.  Get all uppity and I can yell you where to put it and you will not like it !! That is humor for the thin skinned types !!
Some people just love to arque and make a fuss over little to nothing !!  I assume most of us are over the age of 30, *(&^ most of us are over 50-60 !! Sit back grow up have a brew perhaps a good cigar and relax and have fun. I love to shoot !  I find it relaxing and calming.
We have turned the world to &^^& ! do we have to F&^* everything up including this hobby?  I don't need 20 ft pounds to have fun. I just need a smooth shooting arm which can hit the target consistanly. Now bend the *(&^ over and take your medicine !!
This was all said in jest... well maybe not LOL !!
Back in the day it was drislide for leather sealed airguns now it is Moly for synthetic seals. It is NOT rocket science!!  Never was , never will be.
Just sayin !!
kindly
ron

Hey Ron,
Glad to have you back in the saddle .
I'd forgotten about your bloviating posts of Floridian bluster.
But I have to agree with on this one, Jim Maccari lubes have been around for 30+ years and are hard to beat.
Cheers,
Kirk
 

[jccams]

Where can one buy clear tar?  Don't think ARH sells it anymore.

[SpiralGroove]

Where can one buy clear tar?  Don't think ARH sells it anymore.

https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42987.htm

[jccams]

Where can one buy clear tar?  Don't think ARH sells it anymore.

https://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42987.htm

Thanks Kirk, my bad thought I had looked before.